Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Roster/Rumors Discussion Part VI

[Schmooley]

Is Seth Jones available?

 

[tomd]

I hate both deals the Sabres beat writer suggested for the Kings acquiring Eichel.

1. Los Angeles sends center Quinton Byfield, a secondary prospect and goalie Jonathan Quick to the Sabres for Eichel
   
2. Los Angeles sends centers Alex Turcotte and Gabriel Vilardi, a secondary prospect and goalie Jonathan Quick to the Sabres for Eichel

.

The 2nd one actually makes a lot of sense. With center depth of Kopitar, Eichel, and Byfield there really is no need for Vilardi and Turcotte. It makes the team immediately better and Eichel is still only 24. Vilardi will never be a top line player with his lack of speed (did you watch any of the playoff games yesterday? Can you imagine Vilardi trying to keep up that pace for 20 minutes let alone 7 games?). Turcotte is a wild card but certainly expendable for an upgrade like Eichel based upon his D+1 and D+2 seasons.

The 1st proposal is tougher given how emotionally attached the fan base is to Byfield's potential. As a pure hockey trade it isn't outlandish.

All this assumes that Eichel is healthy.

 

[KopitarFAN]

I hate both deals the Sabres beat writer suggested for the Kings acquiring Eichel.

1. Los Angeles sends center Quinton Byfield, a secondary prospect and goalie Jonathan Quick to the Sabres for Eichel
   
2. Los Angeles sends centers Alex Turcotte and Gabriel Vilardi, a secondary prospect and goalie Jonathan Quick to the Sabres for Eichel

.

I probably do the second one, but they have no reason to move Quick, unless they have plans for the ~$4M difference between Quick & a decent backup.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

I can't see an Eichel trade that doesn't include the Kings first round pick this year

 

[BigKing]

I can't see an Eichel trade that doesn't include the Kings first round pick this year

Yep. I would have imagined the ask would be for the 1st and not a secondary prospect.

So you can wait, do nothing and hope that all three of Byfield/Turcotte/Vilardi are studs or you take that 2nd proposal and get your guaranteed stud while keeping your highest ceiling prospect. That's pretty hard to turn down. You can pretty much look at it like the reward for sucking the last few years is getting a 25 year old (in October) Jack Eichel and Byfield along with all the other prospects left after this trade. If that secondary prospect was Kupari then even better.

A big hope in these rebuilds is to strike gold with your prized lottery selections. Without the Doughty selection for Lombardi, where does that rebuild go? The hope here is that Byfield is that grand prize but he's far different from the sure thing that Doughty showed right from his first training camp. I really like Turcotte and Vilardi but the former continually gets hurt from simply falling down and the latter might be more of a 50 point guy at best, never mind his injury history that might be behind him or might hinder him from getting stronger.

Of course, we can't mention injuries and not mention Eichel's neck. If you trade for him and he can't play, then that is the end of your GM job.

 

[AlphaBravo]

I probably do the second one, but they have no reason to move Quick, unless they have plans for the ~$4M difference between Quick & a decent backup.

The fact that the second proposal is an easy yes from the Kings perspective means that Buffalo won't agree to it. We would need to add in the 1st rounder for that to conceivably work. I think Buffalo will also want Kempe instead of a secondary prospect.

The fair deal would be Turcotte, Vilardi, Kempe and 1st. That is a very competitive package for Eichel. We can replace Kempe's speed and skill on the third line with AA. We have the center depth to lose Vilardi and Turcotte. And the 1st rounder is too much of a wild card to pass up on Eichel.

 

[DoktorJeep]

I don’t see Buffaloes GM trading Eichel to do a rebuild. Plenty of teams could move 2 roster players to acquire Eichel. If Eichel forces a trade, then I see a hockey move being done, not a futures deal. Which eliminates teams like the Kings, Sens, Detroit, Ducks, Rangers and Devils.

And I don’t see it happening this summer, while the injury status is up in the air. He’ll have to play again to establish his value. But if he’s proven healthy and goes public with a trade request, then you have to get a max return that improves the team ASAP.

Here’s one take on teams that are the leaders for Eichel, IMO. These aren’t ranked.

SJ: Meier, LaBanc
ARI: Keller, Chycrun
PHI: Konecny, Provorov
NSH: Forsberg, Ekholm
MIN: Fiala, Dumba
CAR: Aho, Slavin
NYI: Barzal, Pulock
VAN: Horvat, Boeser

 

[SFKingshomer]

Eichel's injury and attitude scare me a bit and I think the assets are better spent on a top notch defenseman. I guess the positive with any move is the Kings can take on all of a cap hit plus more and not many teams can do that.

 

[SFKingshomer]

I don’t see Buffaloes GM trading Eichel to do a rebuild. Plenty of teams could move 2 roster players to acquire Eichel. If Eichel forces a trade, then I see a hockey move being done, not a futures deal. Which eliminates teams like the Kings, Sens, Detroit, Ducks, Rangers and Devils.

And I don’t see it happening this summer, while the injury status is up in the air. He’ll have to play again to establish his value. But if he’s proven healthy and goes public with a trade request, then you have to get a max return that improves the team ASAP.

Here’s one take on teams that are the leaders for Eichel, IMO. These aren’t ranked.

SJ: Meier, LaBanc
ARI: Keller, Chycrun
PHI: Konecny, Provorov
NSH: Forsberg, Ekholm
MIN: Fiala, Dumba
CAR: Aho, Slavin
NYI: Barzal, Pulock
VAN: Horvat, Boeser

Most of those teams say get lost and why would Eichel want to go to any of those after they mortgage their roster for him?

 

[KingTech]

If the Defenseman we want isnt available where we draft (powers hughes clark evidson )we should trade Kempe and our first for a later first and a defenseman in the 23 26 age group.

 

[Reclamation Project]

I'd only trade both Turcotte and Vilardi if the Kings question their durability (I do). I wouldn't do it together. I'd ship Vilardi out for a winger. He finished really strong though and still hasn't played a full season so I want to see what he does next season.

As for Quick, no interest in trading him.

I still stick with my package - Turcotte, 2021/2022 first round pick, a 2021 second (or both), and Kempe for Eichel and Ristolainen. Buffalo won't be getting maximum value for either of those players because they're already at a disadvantage, everyone knows they both want out.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Above is off the table if the Kings win the lottery. If it's a bottom 10 pick I'd trade it.

 

[Choralone]

I'm just not seeing the value of sending a bunch of our top prospects for one guy who is going to be an island. We are still going to have to wait for other prospects to develop, or send most of them all off for more trades to give Eichel someone to play with.

I don't like watching losing hockey either, but I don't want to do some "accelerated" half-ass rebuild. Stay the course.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Eichel is an established elite player, signed for a few more years, and is only 25. Outside of Byfield the Kings don't have a single prospect that is close to his potential. And again, all speculating, Byfield might become nothing. He's going to get healthy and on a functioning team he'll put up 40/60/100 like clockwork. I'd do my deal without hesitation. It would be Eichel/Byfield for the next 10+ years.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

And what value do you put in having some of the best players at their position to give the already existing assets a chance to grow into their role?

Nobody has given a convincing argument against letting players grow into their roles with Kopitar and Doughty aside from "we can get more prospects (who also might not work out)" and "we can get other (inferior) players to do what they're doing"

Although I do agree - if Kopitar and Doughty are toxic, then they need to be removed. But there's nothing indicating that's the case, aside from false narratives people have assigned.

Just want to address here that Kopitar, Brown, Quick, and Doughty themselves didn’t need their hands held to grow into their roles. They did it themselves.

Young Kopitar and Doughty didn’t have nor need players of their future caliber on the team as some kind of cushion. Lombardi surrounded them mostly by character role players. Young Kopitar was around players like Thornton and Armstrong. Young Doughty was around players like Scuderi.

I think it’s a total myth that you need high paid elder statesmen to usher in the next era. We witnessed firsthand a group of young players inherit a broken franchise and inevitably elevate it to championship caliber.

 

[johnjm22]

SJ: Meier, LaBanc
ARI: Keller, Chycrun
PHI: Konecny, Provorov
NSH: Forsberg, Ekholm
MIN: Fiala, Dumba
CAR: Aho, Slavin
NYI: Barzal, Pulock
VAN: Horvat, Boeser

I've gotta think NYR is on the list. They have the need and the assets. Sabres probably don't want to trade him to a neighbor though.

Nobody talks about Colorado, but they're a team that needs that one more move to get them over the top. They're gonna need a center soon. They have the assets also.

 

[funky]

I would rather spend the prospect capital going after Sergachev from Tampa Bay. There is no way they will want to trade him but they’re also in a very tough position cap wise. LA has the cab space to take away one of the other dead contracts. They also have two other left hand shot defenseman that can play 45 minutes a night and their right side doesn’t look as hot. The other thing is Points contract is up after next year.

my proposal.

Sergachev and Johnson

for

Turcotte, Walker and our 2021 1st.

My reasoning.

Sergachev is a unicorn. Big physical young left shot Dman with a great shot and good offensive instincts. He will be a true #1. You don’t trade these guys. The only thing we can hope is that Tampa has Herman, is backed into a tough spot with all their no trade clauses and her way over the cap.

Johnson Freeze up a ton of Space for them, provides skill level on the bottom six for us, and helps drive down Sergachev’s value.

Have Strand take over Walker’s spot and with those two new additions to our defense it becomes a lot more physical with greater size.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Just want to address here that Kopitar, Brown, Quick, and Doughty themselves didn’t need their hands held to grow into their roles. They did it themselves.

Young Kopitar and Doughty didn’t have nor need players of their future caliber on the team as some kind of cushion. Lombardi surrounded them mostly by character role players. Young Kopitar was around players like Thornton and Armstrong. Young Doughty was around players like Scuderi.

I think it’s a total myth that you need high paid elder statesmen to usher in the next era. We witnessed firsthand a group of young players inherit a broken franchise and inevitably elevate it to championship caliber.

No--but if they're available, why would you say no?

Kopitar had vets to eat all the hard defensive minutes so he could excel.

Doughty had a number of partners who were there to insulate him.

They were still 'the guy', but it's not like they walked into the league as the two-way defensive stalwarts they are either, they had softer minutes until we could take the training wheels off.

I'ts a myth in that it's not the only way to do it, but why would you take a franchise with Kopitar and Doughty and replace them with Stastny and whothef***ever just to save a few million when you're already having a hard time keeping above the cap floor?

Like KP said--"Nobody has given a convincing argument against letting players grow into their roles with Kopitar and Doughty aside from "we can get more prospects (who also might not work out)" and "we can get other (inferior) players to do what they're doing""

 

[Fat Elvis]

LA should not make any deal for Eichel until his plethora of injuries are resolved. The guy at the moment is damaged and may not even be ready come next season. Too risky.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I would rather spend the prospect capital going after Sergachev from Tampa Bay. There is no way they will want to trade him but they’re also in a very tough position cap wise. LA has the cab space to take away one of the other dead contracts. They also have two other left hand shot defenseman that can play 45 minutes a night and their right side doesn’t look as hot. The other thing is Points contract is up after next year.

my proposal.

Sergachev and Johnson

for

Turcotte, Walker and our 2021 1st.

My reasoning.

Sergachev is a unicorn. Big physical young left shot Dman with a great shot and good offensive instincts. He will be a true #1. You don’t trade these guys. The only thing we can hope is that Tampa has Herman, is backed into a tough spot with all their no trade clauses and her way over the cap.

Johnson Freeze up a ton of Space for them, provides skill level on the bottom six for us, and helps drive down Sergachev’s value.

Have Strand take over Walker’s spot and with those two new additions to our defense it becomes a lot more physical with greater size.

I like this, but I think you will have to add to it, to get TB to say yes.

 

[SFKingshomer]

I would rather spend the prospect capital going after Sergachev from Tampa Bay. There is no way they will want to trade him but they’re also in a very tough position cap wise. LA has the cab space to take away one of the other dead contracts. They also have two other left hand shot defenseman that can play 45 minutes a night and their right side doesn’t look as hot. The other thing is Points contract is up after next year.

my proposal.

Sergachev and Johnson

for

Turcotte, Walker and our 2021 1st.

My reasoning.

Sergachev is a unicorn. Big physical young left shot Dman with a great shot and good offensive instincts. He will be a true #1. You don’t trade these guys. The only thing we can hope is that Tampa has Herman, is backed into a tough spot with all their no trade clauses and her way over the cap.

Johnson Freeze up a ton of Space for them, provides skill level on the bottom six for us, and helps drive down Sergachev’s value.

Have Strand take over Walker’s spot and with those two new additions to our defense it becomes a lot more physical with greater size.

TB is not in a tough enough spot yet where they need to trade Sergachev. Johnson is the only guy that doesn't have positive value. Palat, Killorn, Gourde, and McDonagh can be moved if they're willing to wave and history shows us that it's likely they will.

 

[johnjm22]

I would rather spend the prospect capital going after Sergachev from Tampa Bay. There is no way they will want to trade him but they’re also in a very tough position cap wise. LA has the cab space to take away one of the other dead contracts. They also have two other left hand shot defenseman that can play 45 minutes a night and their right side doesn’t look as hot. The other thing is Points contract is up after next year.

my proposal.

Sergachev and Johnson

for

Turcotte, Walker and our 2021 1st.

My reasoning.

Sergachev is a unicorn. Big physical young left shot Dman with a great shot and good offensive instincts. He will be a true #1. You don’t trade these guys. The only thing we can hope is that Tampa has Herman, is backed into a tough spot with all their no trade clauses and her way over the cap.

Johnson Freeze up a ton of Space for them, provides skill level on the bottom six for us, and helps drive down Sergachev’s value.

Have Strand take over Walker’s spot and with those two new additions to our defense it becomes a lot more physical with greater size.

Johnson has an NTC though.

Only big contracts Tampa has without clauses are:
Point
Cirelli
Sergachev
Vasilevsky

 

[BigKing]

While the contract numbers are high, there are teams that would still have made it work somehow for a Doughty or Kopitar trade. You'd have to deal with the different NMC stuff so that makes it more difficult but , yes, Blake could have traded them if he was planning on flat-out sucking for five seasons or more: he's not.

We've talked about how the DL rebuild was different in the sense that he already had his #1C waiting for him in Kopitar. He thought he got his goalie in Bernier but he already had Quick waiting for him. He had Visnovsky but immediately moved to get Johnson and then was fortunate to get Doughty so he moved on from Viz. As far as wingers, he went out and got O'Sullivan and already had Frolov, Brown and Cammalleri.

What about Blake? It's already been said numerous times that Blake was dealt a worse hand than Lombardi since Dean inherited 11/23/32 and he didn't have the contract issues. Not arguing this fact. So where does that leave Blake? Well, Blake did inherit a team that went to the playoffs in his first season with a #1C that won the Selke and was a Hart finalist along with a #1D that was a Norris finalist. Everything goes to shit the next season, Bluc says they are rebuilding and Blake proceeds to move out basically every veteran but he keeps the teams two best players, knowing that they will pay them a ton of money for 2-3 seasons of suck. Why?

Well, sucking doesn't guarantee that the lottery picks wind up being Kopitar or Doughty level talents. If you believe that these two guys are going to still be top performers through the end of their contracts, why move them just so you can *hope* to sign a UFA of their caliber (will cost more than their current cap hits and won't be 23 years old) or *hope* that the picks/prospects you get are amazing? You already have to do the latter so why don't you hedge a bit by hoping the picks/prospects are amazing and can be added to two guys that, face it, are legit 1st line/1st pairing guys.

Blake has supposedly put together the best prospect pool in the league. He now gets to start adding these guys to a team that still has two very good players at 1C and 1D. He still sees these two as part of the solution. COVID and flat cap can change things since you'd usually bank on their cap hits being minimized by a rising cap but, even then, the team has so much space even now and Kopitar's contract ends in three seasons.

I think your stance on this depends on if you think Blake's first concern is making 11 and 8 happy. I'm not a Blake fan but I don't think I can accuse him of this: I truly believe it is a hockey decision. If he moves a bunch of young assets for some 30 year old guys then I'll say it but if he moves some unknowns for a sure thing in their mid-20s, that just seems like the natural evolution of a rebuild as you move some lottery tickets into actual dollars. You don't trade in all of your lottery tickets though and that's where Blake is going to have to prove himself.

 

[Reaper45]

People want to move say Vilardi and Turcotte because they have concerns about their injuries but no concerns about Eichel’s injuries? Yeah no thanks.

 

[SFKingshomer]

People want to move say Vilardi and Turcotte because they have concerns about their injuries but no concerns about Eichel’s injuries? Yeah no thanks.

That and who is to say he's happy here? He wants to win and if they struggle then he may pout. I don't want any part of Eichel unless he comes cheap.