Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Roster/Rumors Discussion Part VI

[KingLB]

I don’t see them as much more than a mediocre playoff team and that’s not what they should be trying to build. Can you name team that has had success moving from a quick rebuild to a cup? STL is probably the answer but they had an older group overall and more depth.

Chicago? If I remember correctly won with both Toews and Kane on ELC’s?

 

[tomd]

Blake never intended on rebuilding, and it's just not easy getting rid of contracts. The worst thing to happen was Kopitar's MVP type season. It probably gave Doughty too much hope, and so since he comfortable here anyway, he re-signed.

But, as has been the case since the Cup in 2012, every move since, other than the Regher and Gaborik trades, was bad timing. Both GMs got screwed by the players.

Blake has been in charge of the team for 4 years and has brought it to this point. The choices made were all his own. Nothing else matters. Now he is facing a fork in the road that he must have anticipated (unless he is braindead incompetent). Blake can either (1) significantly improve the team this summer or (2) stay the course. Both directions involve major risks. At the core is how to deal with 11 and 8. Fans will be line up on one side or the other and that is fine. He has this summer to figure it out.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Chicago? If I remember correctly won with both Toews and Kane on ELC’s?

Yea they went and got Hossa and others but also had Keith, Seabrook, Hammer, etc. The Kings aren’t close to that position. This would be more like NYR getting Panarin and Trouba. I mentioned the Blues because they were struggling before the Schenn and O’Reilly deals.

 

[SFKingshomer]

The Kings become a lock playoff team in your hypothetical situation (barring any injuries to that potential Big 4). And Eichel and Werenski are both 24 right now, you act as if they are 30. Eichel and Werenski are stars in their prime with about a decade of decent hockey left, plus you have Kopitar and QB which gives you a 1A/1B situation down the middle for the entire prime of Eichel's career. Aren't you the guy who is obsessed with all things centers and despises wingers? This seems like a team you would get behind. No team in the sport would match what the Kings have for the present and future with Eichel/AK/Byfield trio.

Same thing on the back end, in your scenario you immediately have one of, if not the best 1-2 punch in the league on the blueline for the net 3-4 years or whenever Drew starts to fall off.

I guess you’re right and the holes that would need to be filled would probably be the easiest. A winger or two and a crease clearer. Knowing the Kings, they would still suck and fork over back to back lottery picks.

 

[KopitarFAN]

Yea they went and got Hossa and others but also had Keith, Seabrook, Hammer, etc. The Kings aren’t close to that position. This would be more like NYR getting Panarin and Trouba. I mentioned the Blues because they were struggling before the Schenn and O’Reilly deals.

The Rangers might very well have made the playoffs if Panarin didn't sit out 9 games (5 of which they lost).

 

[Statto]

The answer is some vet from the other team you get in the trade or a UFA. Blake is not limited to selecting only from the centers left in the organization.

I completely agree and said as much, but my point is that it’s not as simple as trading him and magically filling the hole, because it brings with it a hole bunch of risks and pitfalls. It’s not a retort, it’s a question that needs to be answered as part of the consideration of trading him.

So, firstly who? Tell me who would be a good target? If you get a player back in the trade, are they going to be good enough to be the 1C to start the year? Because it need to be a legit 1C or a top 2C, even if not at Kopitars level, or else the team slides back farther when it needs to go forward. If they aren’t good enough to carry the 1C load you also end up with Vilardi or Byfield eating minutes they aren’t ready for. Once you factor the asset value of acquiring a player that is good enough are we really likely to have enough of a net gain to make it worthwhile?

If we were to go down the route of signing a UFA it’s certainly not going to be a top C (based on this years UFA’s) and again the team slides back and it could hurt prospects by forcing them into responsibilities they aren’t ready for. Any UFA is also likely to want a couple of years tagged onto the contract we won’t want to pay, giving us a bad contract down the line to deal with or buy out. It’s perhaps not a major issue given our cap situation but it is a consideration.

I just struggle to come up with a realistic trading partner that can give us a player good enough in the trade to make it worthwhile and/or without risking player development. Nor do I see a UFA that fills the void sufficiently either. I just don’t see a significant net gain in moving him. Do you have any thoughts on good UFA targets or good trading partners that would allow us to get a good enough player? It’s a genuine question because I’ve not followed the last couple of seasons as closely as I would normally.

I really think the time to trade Kopitar has passed and I think we are tied to him for the next couple of years as Byfield and Vilardi develop. If we get to a situation where he is the 3C and we have players in the system ready to step in then maybe trade him in the final year, if he wants another cup. However, with where we are right now, we are tied to him.

 

[unicornpig]

so we trade kopitar and bring in some other vet to fill the void, kings are nearly at the cap floor so what would be the point of that.

 

[KINGS17]

I completely agree and said as much, but my point is that it’s not as simple as trading him and magically filling the hole, because it brings with it a hole bunch of risks and pitfalls. It’s not a retort, it’s a question that needs to be answered as part of the consideration of trading him.

So, firstly who? Tell me who would be a good target? If you get a player back in the trade, are they going to be good enough to be the 1C to start the year? Because it need to be a legit 1C or a top 2C, even if not at Kopitars level, or else the team slides back farther when it needs to go forward. If they aren’t good enough to carry the 1C load you also end up with Vilardi or Byfield eating minutes they aren’t ready for. Once you factor the asset value of acquiring a player that is good enough are we really likely to have enough of a net gain to make it worthwhile?

If we were to go down the route of signing a UFA it’s certainly not going to be a top C (based on this years UFA’s) and again the team slides back and it could hurt prospects by forcing them into responsibilities they aren’t ready for. Any UFA is also likely to want a couple of years tagged onto the contract we won’t want to pay, giving us a bad contract down the line to deal with or buy out. It’s perhaps not a major issue given our cap situation but it is a consideration.

I just struggle to come up with a realistic trading partner that can give us a player good enough in the trade to make it worthwhile and/or without risking player development. Nor do I see a UFA that fills the void sufficiently either. I just don’t see a significant net gain in moving him. Do you have any thoughts on good UFA targets or good trading partners that would allow us to get a good enough player? It’s a genuine question because I’ve not followed the last couple of seasons as closely as I would normally.

I really think the time to trade Kopitar has passed and I think we are tied to him for the next couple of years as Byfield and Vilardi develop. If we get to a situation where he is the 3C and we have players in the system ready to step in then maybe trade him in the final year, if he wants another cup. However, with where we are right now, we are tied to him.

I think the time to trade Kopitar has passed as well, but someone asked me a question, and I answered it.

Don't worry, Kopitar isn't going anywhere right now.

 

[KINGS17]

Chicago? If I remember correctly won with both Toews and Kane on ELC’s?

This is correct. Chicago's last cup was prior to Toews and Kane's last deals going into effect.

 

[KopitarFAN]

so we trade kopitar and bring in some other vet to fill the void, kings are nearly at the cap floor so what would be the point of that.

If they aren't willing to significantly upgrade the roster around Kopi & Dewey while they are still playing at a high level, move them, even eat some money on Kopi since he only has 3 years left. And commit to building with Byfield, Kaliyev, Turcotte, Bjornfot, Anderson, Thomas etc.

 

[Herby]

so we trade kopitar and bring in some other vet to fill the void, kings are nearly at the cap floor so what would be the point of that.

Because it commits the team to a full on rebuild that isn't hampered by having two Mount Rushmore players, aged 31 and 33 making $10+m a year who have both had huge success previously with the Kings. No matter what people say, the Kings can really never commit to a true rebuild with those two on the roster, it's just to hard to turn the page for a lot of reasons.

It also puts the Kings right into play to land high picks in the 2022 and 2023 drafts which both look like they might have potential superstars at the top of the draft.

The Kings can hit the floor by trading for bad expiring contracts for the next couple of years, guys like Backes aren't going to help you win on the ice (and that is the point) but they help you hit the floor and they are good in the room for young players.

Like I mentioned in the other post, I'm ok with this strategy as well, just completely suck for the next two years and hopefully end up with one of Wright, Bedard, Michkov, Lambert.

Or cash in some of the excess prospect capital and try and start winning this year, I don't care, just anything but returning Doughty and Kopitar and picking 7-14 the next two years. That is the worst case scenario. That is why Doughty's comments to the media were the best thing to happen to the organization since the Sutter hiring, it means one of those things is probably going to happen.

 

[KINGS17]

Because it commits the team to a full on rebuild that isn't hampered by having two Mount Rushmore players, aged 31 and 33 making $10+m a year who have both had huge success previously with the Kings. No matter what people say, the Kings can really never commit to a true rebuild with those two on the roster, it's just to hard to turn the page for a lot of reasons.

It also puts the Kings right into play to land high picks in the 2022 and 2023 drafts which both look like they might have potential superstars at the top of the draft.

The Kings can hit the floor by trading for bad expiring contracts for the next couple of years, guys like Backes aren't going to help you win on the ice (and that is the point) but they help you hit the floor and they are good in the room for young players.

Like I mentioned in the other post, I'm ok with this strategy as well, just completely suck for the next two years and hopefully end up with one of Wright, Bedard, Michkov, Lambert.

Or cash in some of the excess prospect capital and try and start winning this year, I don't care, just anything but returning Doughty and Kopitar and picking 7-14 the next two years. That is the worst case scenario.

I actually prefer this strategy to the half-in/half-out strategy Robitaille and Blake have been using. If they had done this sooner we would be closer to watching meaningful hockey in April, May, and June than we are today.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Blake has been in charge of the team for 4 years and has brought it to this point. The choices made were all his own. Nothing else matters. Now he is facing a fork in the road that he must have anticipated (unless he is braindead incompetent). Blake can either (1) significantly improve the team this summer or (2) stay the course. Both directions involve major risks. At the core is how to deal with 11 and 8. Fans will be line up on one side or the other and that is fine. He has this summer to figure it out.

Right, it doesn't matter why he made certain choices, it's just that he made them. Context never matters in any situation.

Had the team been better in 14-15, 15-16, 16-17, and 17-18, maybe everything that's happened since Oct 2018 would've been different.

 

[tomd]

Right, it doesn't matter why he made certain choices, it's just that he made them. Context never matters in any situation.

Had the team been better in 14-15, 15-16, 16-17, and 17-18, maybe everything that's happened since Oct 2018 would've been different.

What makes the Kings interesting to me is what they've been doing the past couple of years. We are watching a rather unique rebuild which involves retaining the most expensive long-term (and talented) players. I'm not sure that's ever been tried before so it provides a lot to conjecture about. And certainly the decisions made from 2014 thru 2018 had an impact on the franchise but I still maintain that Blake had a choice in this rebuild. It was not pre-ordained nor was it the only possible avenue in 18/19. I suspect you disagree so we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

I do wish I better understood Blake's thinking about 11 and 8 back in 2019 and how they would react to a long-term rebuild. But whatever, it has all come to a head now and can't be kicked down the road any longer and that is a good thing.

 

[SFKingshomer]

There was no other option a few years ago because they had little cap space and no assets to move.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

There was no other option a few years ago because they had little cap space and no assets to move.

Doesn't matter......context never matters in discussions like these.

 

[unicornpig]

There was no other option a few years ago because they had little cap space and no assets to move.

not only that, lets trick kopitar into waiving his NMC.....
revisionist will also say we should have traded doughty instead of resigning him......

 

[kingsfan28]

Right, it doesn't matter why he made certain choices, it's just that he made them. Context never matters in any situation.

Had the team been better in 14-15, 15-16, 16-17, and 17-18, maybe everything that's happened since Oct 2018 would've been different.

Had they kept a few of the top picks [ and frankly drafted better] in the early years, things would be much different. Add in terrible trades [ Cernak for Bishop] and this is where we are. They have only 3 guys from the 14' and 15' draft playing right now, and it's Kempe , Roy, and Wagner, [Wagner isn't taking a regular shift]. Not a lot of high skill or impact players there.

 

[deaderhead28]

I love 11 and 8, but I really don't care what they think.

Fans and players are like kids. They want instant gratification NOW.

Management needs to be the adults and make the responsible decisions that are best for the long term of the franchise.

Then many of you'll be very disappointed.Blake already said their improving the team this offseason.No way Kings are trading Kopi or Doughty...

 

[johnjm22]

Then many of you'll be very disappointed.Blake already said their improving the team this offseason.No way Kings are trading Kopi or Doughty...

That means nothing.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I actually prefer this strategy to the half-in/half-out strategy Robitaille and Blake have been using. If they had done this sooner we would be closer to watching meaningful hockey in April, May, and June than we are today.

Maybe. Maybe not.

 

[KingsFan7824]

What makes the Kings interesting to me is what they've been doing the past couple of years. We are watching a rather unique rebuild which involves retaining the most expensive long-term (and talented) players. I'm not sure that's ever been tried before so it provides a lot to conjecture about. And certainly the decisions made from 2014 thru 2018 had an impact on the franchise but I still maintain that Blake had a choice in this rebuild. It was not pre-ordained nor was it the only possible avenue in 18/19. I suspect you disagree so we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

I do wish I better understood Blake's thinking about 11 and 8 back in 2019 and how they would react to a long-term rebuild. But whatever, it has all come to a head now and can't be kicked down the road any longer and that is a good thing.

I've already said that Blake had no intention of rebuilding when he took the job. There wasn't much that he could do in the summer of 2017, but he brought the band back again, then Kopitar had a great year despite Carter missing 50 games, which in all other years probably would've killed the team as they've had no depth for a long time. Whatever Stevens had going brought something out of Kopitar, and brought Brown back from the grave.

Then they got trounced by Vegas, and came into the 2018 training camp with no heart.

There's no scorched earth with the cap. You have to methodically get rid of contracts for old guys. Have to wait until there's a year left. Or, with a guy like Carter, retain 50%, and get a couple non-1st rd picks years later. It's not about choosing to keep Kopitar and Doughty while the team crumbles around them. Those contracts can't be move, independent of the NMCs they've had. Or, you could move them, but you're not getting the other team's 1C or 1D prospect for them. The only value you're getting is getting rid of the contract obligation.

Something went wrong in the summer of 2018. Did Vegas truly break the Kings, the way that we always joked how the Kings broke the Blues or Sharks? Did Doughty's contract put a curse on the team? Did everyone look at Kovalchuk and say, yeah, this is obviously now just a country club? Did the team quit on Stevens, despite him being a more player friendly coach? I guess they could've hired a better coach than WD, but was Berube some all time coach that saved the day for the Blues? He was a previously fired after 2 seasons head coach that was just the assistant that year for what at the time was a bad Blues team. That sounds like promoting Blake from AGM after firing DL because the Kings sucked. As with hiring Sutter off a literal Canadian farm, you don't get much more hockey than promoting Berube.

But yeah, hopefully the last 4 beg to be gotten rid of, and you just get a couple meh prospects and a bad contract or two that end earlier, because the last 4 have mostly been disappointing since 2014. They're probably leading the country club, but who cares. Or, this team goes all in, everything is about getting the last 4 another chance, and Blake doesn't stop adding. The assets are there if they want to.

 

[BigKing]

What makes the Kings interesting to me is what they've been doing the past couple of years. We are watching a rather unique rebuild which involves retaining the most expensive long-term (and talented) players. I'm not sure that's ever been tried before so it provides a lot to conjecture about. And certainly the decisions made from 2014 thru 2018 had an impact on the franchise but I still maintain that Blake had a choice in this rebuild. It was not pre-ordained nor was it the only possible avenue in 18/19. I suspect you disagree so we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

I do wish I better understood Blake's thinking about 11 and 8 back in 2019 and how they would react to a long-term rebuild. But whatever, it has all come to a head now and can't be kicked down the road any longer and that is a good thing.

It's not that interesting when you realize that Blake plans on the Kings being good with both Kopitar and Doughty still here. Blake's plan has never been to just suck ass for five seasons.

Blake has had five first round selections, multiple 2nd round picks and also traded for a Top 10 pick from the 2017 draft. He's now sitting on another Top 10 pick and multiple 2nds again. He's holding a ton of chips.

The DL rebuild isn't the same but that's the blueprint and has been. It's what multiple members of management have seen work once before so that's what they are doing. Year 4 of DL saw forward help brought in from outside and a playoff run.

I'd be shocked if Blake isn't active in improving the NHL roster this off-season but, c'mon, most of us have been saying that this summer is when the rubber hits the road for Blake and he actually has to be a GM. We've been saying this for over a year. Well, here we are. Let's see what happens.

 

[KINGS17]

so we trade kopitar and bring in some other vet to fill the void, kings are nearly at the cap floor so what would be the point of that.

Being concerned about getting to the cap floor is one of the most fallacious arguments made on these boards. For an example to debunk the cap floor myth:

See, Coyotes, Arizona

 

[KINGS17]

It's not that interesting when you realize that Blake plans on the Kings being good with both Kopitar and Doughty still here. Blake's plan has never been to just suck ass for five seasons.

Blake has had five first round selections, multiple 2nd round picks and also traded for a Top 10 pick from the 2017 draft. He's now sitting on another Top 10 pick and multiple 2nds again. He's holding a ton of chips.

The DL rebuild isn't the same but that's the blueprint and has been. It's what multiple members of management have seen work once before so that's what they are doing. Year 4 of DL saw forward help brought in from outside and a playoff run.

I'd be shocked if Blake isn't active in improving the NHL roster this off-season but, c'mon, most of us have been saying that this summer is when the rubber hits the road for Blake and he actually has to be a GM. We've been saying this for over a year. Well, here we are. Let's see what happens.

Yeah, I want to see the gums stop flapping and some action, or at least a clear definition of the plan.

This doesn't happen with Blake or Robitaille's words. I will be able to understand the plan with their actions.

It is possible the Kings can hit the playoffs again with Kopitar and Doughty both on their current contracts, but any success will be short-lived when those two are no longer capable front line players.