Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Roster/Rumors Discussion Part VI

[KopitarFAN]

not only that, lets trick kopitar into waiving his NMC.....
revisionist will also say we should have traded doughty instead of resigning him......

Doesn't have a full NMC. The player submits a list of 7 teams to which he's willing to go.
anze-kopitar

 

[Peter James Bond III]

wrong thread..was for draft

 

[unicornpig]

Doesn't have a full NMC. The player submits a list of 7 teams to which he's willing to go.
anze-kopitar

they wanted to trade him back when he did have a nmc.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Being concerned about getting to the cap floor is one of the most fallacious arguments made on these boards. For an example to debunk the cap floor myth:

See, Coyotes, Arizona

Sure but the argument isn't so much "oh no we aren't going to reach the cap floor" as it is "Kopitar and Doughty's deals aren't preventing us from doing literally anything."

 

[KINGS17]

Sure but the argument isn't so much "oh no we aren't going to reach the cap floor" as it is "Kopitar and Doughty's deals aren't preventing us from doing literally anything."

Their deals are water under the bridge. However, if trading them increases the quality of players in the 20-25 age range, why not?

 

[KingsFan7824]

Sure but the argument isn't so much "oh no we aren't going to reach the cap floor" as it is "Kopitar and Doughty's deals aren't preventing us from doing literally anything."

Anymore. There was a time when they hurt. Even if Williams wanted to come back at $3m or whatever, it couldn't be done for a 2nd year, because everyone knew Kopitar was getting a new contract. Hence, Lucic at 50% for 1 year, because DL wasn't starting a rebuild again.

Their deals are water under the bridge. However, if trading them increases the quality of players in the 20-25 age range, why not?

If you want a good 20 year old, you have to trade a good 20 year old, or a very good 25 year old. If you want a good 25 year old, you have to trade a good 25 year old, or a very good 20 year old. 30 year olds with big contracts get you other 30 year olds with big contracts, or average at best 25 year olds with decent contracts. Trading either guy isn't going to greatly increase the quality of players in that younger age bracket. The cap is too punishing. The other team needs the cheap young production to offset the aging player they've acquired. And no, it's very unlikely the Kings retain 50% for years on end. It may be other people's money we're spending, but it is real money at some point.

 

[cyclones22]

Wait, is Miko Koivu still a better value for production than Kopitar is? Someone look up the numbers.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Their deals are water under the bridge. However, if trading them increases the quality of players in the 20-25 age range, why not?

I would say the biggest argument against this is that you are pretty much fully committed to wasting the ELCs of an excellent prospect pool. You for some reason want to waste years of tanking, prospect development, and freeing up cap space.

 

[funky]

We introduced two full time rookies on Defence.

we introduced JAD as a rookie full time center

we saw Byfield is closer to being NHL ready than we thought

we got rid of almost every Vet other then our 2 key cornerstones a back up goalie and our ex captain soon to be UFA. The 2 cornerstones had outstanding years with no real help.

we have a ton of picks.

our prospect pool is bursting. Not enough room for everyone.

some want to through our heavy dirty minutes cornerstones away, throw the kids to the wolves and get more prospects.

can we give Blake 3 more months before our skies completely fall in?

 

[KINGS17]

Anymore. There was a time when they hurt. Even if Williams wanted to come back at $3m or whatever, it couldn't be done for a 2nd year, because everyone knew Kopitar was getting a new contract. Hence, Lucic at 50% for 1 year, because DL wasn't starting a rebuild again.



If you want a good 20 year old, you have to trade a good 20 year old, or a very good 25 year old. If you want a good 25 year old, you have to trade a good 25 year old, or a very good 20 year old. 30 year olds with big contracts get you other 30 year olds with big contracts, or average at best 25 year olds with decent contracts. Trading either guy isn't going to greatly increase the quality of players in that younger age bracket. The cap is too punishing. The other team needs the cheap young production to offset the aging player they've acquired. And no, it's very unlikely the Kings retain 50% for years on end. It may be other people's money we're spending, but it is real money at some point.

Could be which is why they shouldn't have been signed to retirement contracts. Eight year deals are not wise.

The cap is fine.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Sure but the argument isn't so much "oh no we aren't going to reach the cap floor" as it is "Kopitar and Doughty's deals aren't preventing us from doing literally anything."

The issue I see now is two fold:

1. Are Kopitar and Doughty actively perpetuating a losing culture that has seemingly overtaken the franchise since 2014?

And 2. Regardless, can we recoup valuable assets by parting with these players?

If the answer is yes to even one of these questions, management needs to consider a trade. If the answer is yes to both, they should’ve been gone years ago.

 

[King'sPawn]

The issue I see now is two fold:

1. Are Kopitar and Doughty actively perpetuating a losing culture that has seemingly overtaken the franchise since 2014?

And 2. Regardless, can we recoup valuable assets by parting with these players?

If the answer is yes to even one of these questions, management needs to consider a trade. If the answer is yes to both, they should’ve been gone years ago.

And what value do you put in having some of the best players at their position to give the already existing assets a chance to grow into their role?

Nobody has given a convincing argument against letting players grow into their roles with Kopitar and Doughty aside from "we can get more prospects (who also might not work out)" and "we can get other (inferior) players to do what they're doing"

Although I do agree - if Kopitar and Doughty are toxic, then they need to be removed. But there's nothing indicating that's the case, aside from false narratives people have assigned.

 

[Sol]

Bursting to play 1-3-1 with an incompetent coach, and a rebuild that hasn't shown any growth. "bro just wait"

 

[King'sPawn]

Bursting to play 1-3-1 with an incompetent coach, and a rebuild that hasn't shown any growth. "bro just wait"

If you feel the system and coach is crap, what good will having other young players brought in do?

"Yes, I know the pipes are leaking, but look at this awesome sink I installed?"

 

[KingsFan7824]

Could be which is why they shouldn't have been signed to retirement contracts. Eight year deals are not wise.

The cap is fine.

And had they not won one, let alone two Cups, they probably don't get their current contracts. If they wanted to stay here, the organization wasn't going to throw them out. Right or wrong move, good or bad move, it's just really rare to see the opposite happen. Maybe StL got lucky last summer(or whenever it was when Pietrangelo left during covid), maybe they didn't, but they did turn around and sign another aging guy to a long term contract. One that didn't even win with the organization. Are they better off their Cup captain leaving? So far no, but they've also had circumstances go against them. As did the Kings post-2014.

The issue I see now is two fold:

1. Are Kopitar and Doughty actively perpetuating a losing culture that has seemingly overtaken the franchise since 2014?

And 2. Regardless, can we recoup valuable assets by parting with these players?

If the answer is yes to even one of these questions, management needs to consider a trade. If the answer is yes to both, they should’ve been gone years ago.

1. I don't think so. A lot of leaders were still here in 14-15, including Justin "God" Williams, and they couldn't manage to beat a McDavidless Oilers team to give themselves a chance to make the playoffs. I think the losing has been more talent erosion than anything else. The number of players from the Cup teams that the Kings got nothing in return for when they weren't here anymore is pretty impressive. They still haven't truly replaced Fraser as a solid 4C, or Stoll as a solid 3C, never mind scoring talent. It's why Kopitar has had to do more and more as he's gotten older and older. Even before the purge in 18-19. That Richards was done so quickly after getting him, for the price they paid for him, threw things for a loop. Thankfully Carter had been a productive C before, and he could slide right in once Richards was banished to the 4C. Had Carter strictly been a RW, there's no 2nd Cup, because you're not getting a really good 2C quickly. Especially so since the Kings had to outscore their problems in the 2014 playoffs.

McNabb replacing Mitchell didn't work. Forbort didn't work. There was a lack of draft and development success once they won the Cup. Or even before.

2. I can't see how. Age, cap hit, term. None of them are positives for those 2.

 

[kilowatt]

The issue I see now is two fold:

1. Are Kopitar and Doughty actively perpetuating a losing culture that has seemingly overtaken the franchise since 2014?

And 2. Regardless, can we recoup valuable assets by parting with these players?

If the answer is yes to even one of these questions, management needs to consider a trade. If the answer is yes to both, they should’ve been gone years ago.

Out of curiosity, what more can Kopitar and Doughty do? I don't really understand. We traded all of our best second-tier players and replaced them with young prospects or third- and fourth-tier players, and it's somehow shocking that we suck?

Moving out Carter, Toffoli, Pearson, Muzzin, and Martinez and replacing them with Vilardi, Athanasiou, Moore, Anderson, and Bjornfot isn't a recipe for success. And some of those guys might be really good in a year or two, but am I the only one that hasn't forgotten how much shit we gave Jake Muffin in his early years? Martinez was a third-pairing guy for a long while too.

There's not really a big secret here: we need the prospects we've drafted with our high picks to step on and play up to their draft slots. That's the bottom line. If we can augment that in the short term with a UFA or two, awesome.

 

[SFKingshomer]

They aren’t going to improve much with their current system and coach. Too bad he’s signed so damn long, what a mistake.

 

[KopitarFAN]

They aren’t going to improve much with their current system and coach. Too bad he’s signed so damn long, what a mistake.

Definitely the coach right? Couldn't be that they had no less than 8 players who have < 123 career NHL games play a lot. Nope, not at all. That doesn't include the guys who only played a handful this season.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Definitely the coach right? Couldn't be that they had no less than 8 players who have < 123 career NHL games play a lot. Nope, not at all. That doesn't include the guys who only played a handful this season.

No one should be playing the 1-3-1 in today’s game. Also, why is it that every player that leaves suddenly produces?

 

[KopitarFAN]

No one should be playing the 1-3-1 in today’s game. Also, why is it that every player that leaves suddenly produces?

I don't disagree. Maybe it's the best way he sees to being competitive nightly with a severely undermanned team? Just a thought.

I'll ask Moore & Kempe why nobody produces here.

 

[KingsFan7824]

No one should be playing the 1-3-1 in today’s game. Also, why is it that every player that leaves suddenly produces?

As if Toffoli was a consistent 30g guy without Lucic opening up space for him.

 

[Sol]

If youbfeel the system and coach is crap, what good will having other young players brought in do?

"Yes, I know the pipes are leaking, but look at this awesome sink I installed?"

That's kinda my point. TMac needs to go if any of this is going to get improved. There's issues with this roster but there's a bigger issue with the coaching staff. Not only do we need better players but we need better management

To your point, great pipes, shitty sink. Essentially useless.

 

[deaderhead28]

That means nothing.

Sorry to poop on the indefinite rebuild crew,get rid of all veterans club or play all propects FB group,but Blake is the GM trusted by the ownership and listens to Luc and scouts.Folks the rebuild is in its middle stages and he Blake says he is going to start fixing this team this off-season.Their goal is playoffs like it or not....

 

[kingsholygrail]

A lot of former Kings have just remained about as productive as they were as Kings.

 

[Reaper45]

I hate both deals the Sabres beat writer suggested for the Kings acquiring Eichel.

1. Los Angeles sends center Quinton Byfield, a secondary prospect and goalie Jonathan Quick to the Sabres for Eichel
   
2. Los Angeles sends centers Alex Turcotte and Gabriel Vilardi, a secondary prospect and goalie Jonathan Quick to the Sabres for Eichel

.