Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Roster/Rumors Discussion Part VI

[Raccoon Jesus]

fair, but there has to be something that is holding him back now that it has been in two different markets.

thats just it. Has to be something there.

Rangers need center prospects so should have been a red flag he was being moved at all.

Well yeah, there were obviously red flags or we wouldn't get him on the relatively cheap.

I still have zero issue with it because that was a big swing with a not-big pick.

I DO think it's early to pass judgment as he came to a different coast, different team, different system, struggling team, during a covid season. We'll see what we have with him next season imo. At worst, he's a AAAA player that we can plug in and will help Ontario. At best, seems to be a middle six monster.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Random thoughts re: 1-3-1 and TM's system

Little worried there still feels to be no identity other than a few games this season. A lot of times, when the other team DOES dump in, we can't get out, and just flip it to center to reset. I'm not sure that's a talent thing vs. a system thing, as I remember far too many games vs. the Sharks where we could cave them in once the forecheck got rolling.

It also seems weak against teams that WANT to dump it in, since the design is for a team to do so, i.e. Minnesota.

Who was the last team that won a cup doing so? Genuinely just musing. I've never played it, and while it seems awesome in the neutral zone when worked, it seems utterly worthless inside either blueline.

 

[DoktorJeep]

The frustration with how the Kings handle Lias is about who plays over him. Other than being older, Lizotte doesn’t bring enough production or defensive ability to the table to justify playing every game. But he’s the coaches pet, like Amadio was when he was blocking JAD. Would the Kings be better if Lias had played over Lizotte? Who knows.

But at the start of the year, everyone knew what Lizotte’s upside was, but we didn’t get enough of a look at Andersson to say what he is or isn’t.

 

[Lt Dan]

The frustration with how the Kings handle Lias is about who plays over him. Other than being older, Lizotte doesn’t bring enough production or defensive ability to the table to justify playing every game. But he’s the coaches pet, like Amadio was when he was blocking JAD. Would the Kings be better if Lias had played over Lizotte? Who knows.

But at the start of the year, everyone knew what Lizotte’s upside was, but we didn’t get enough of a look at Andersson to say what he is or isn’t.

Indeed

I was a big Lizotte fan last year. Sure he scored goals as often as I get lucky with my girl, but he was the little engine that could. Almost like another Iafallo. He was also off to a great start this season before Covid. He has sucked since.

I was wondering if he is getting a longer leash because of last year and the Covid. I think training camp and the next season will be make or break for Blake

 

[bland]

Random thoughts re: 1-3-1 and TM's system

Little worried there still feels to be no identity other than a few games this season. A lot of times, when the other team DOES dump in, we can't get out, and just flip it to center to reset. I'm not sure that's a talent thing vs. a system thing, as I remember far too many games vs. the Sharks where we could cave them in once the forecheck got rolling.

It also seems weak against teams that WANT to dump it in, since the design is for a team to do so, i.e. Minnesota.

Who was the last team that won a cup doing so? Genuinely just musing. I've never played it, and while it seems awesome in the neutral zone when worked, it seems utterly worthless inside either blueline.

There is one fundamental flaw, and it is purely the roster make up. The Kings have nobody other than Iafallo that can win board battles. Once the puck is dumped in, the drop defender is the first one to the puck and he unless he gets to the puck cleanly and quickly, or is set up by the goalie, his responsibility to chip the puck up to the halfwall where the winger either has time to move it to the middle for a breakout or if he doesn't have the time is supposed to absorb the pinch and chip it out of the zone.

That's the failure here. Nobody on the wing is strong enough along the wall to properly set up for the counterpinch and pucks keep getting turned over between the top of the circles and the blueline. Minny scored twice on that exact scenario.

Iafallo is good at tying defenders up, but not one other winger on this squad has the ability to out battle the opposition. You see turnover after turnover in this area all directly related to the lack of size and grit on the boards.

Brown has always sucked along the wall, now he rarely even bothers to engage. Grundstrom lacks that element as well - the rest of the wingers are all guys who prefer to leave the zone on counterattacks.

And ain't nobody coming up from Ontario to help. They haven't drafted one winger with likely NHL pedigree since Pearson who is a board battler. The days of Lewis, King, Clifford, Toffoli (yes Toffoli, he excelled in that spot) and Pearson executing proper counterpinches and being favorites to win 50/50 battles are loooooong gone.

The Kings are small and soft on the wing. Nothing is really going to change, no matter how good Byfield and Turcotte may be until they get stronger on the wall. Who is going to grind out and hold on to late leads?

 

[tny760]

Random thoughts re: 1-3-1 and TM's system

Little worried there still feels to be no identity other than a few games this season. A lot of times, when the other team DOES dump in, we can't get out, and just flip it to center to reset. I'm not sure that's a talent thing vs. a system thing, as I remember far too many games vs. the Sharks where we could cave them in once the forecheck got rolling.

It also seems weak against teams that WANT to dump it in, since the design is for a team to do so, i.e. Minnesota.

Who was the last team that won a cup doing so? Genuinely just musing. I've never played it, and while it seems awesome in the neutral zone when worked, it seems utterly worthless inside either blueline.

i've been wholly unimpressed with the system's ability to keep play in the offensive zone, it seems any question of possession in the o zone means defensemen are fleeing back to the neutral zone to prevent counterattacks instead of making any attempt to keep pucks in at the corners. kills me seeing every other team we play constantly keep defensive ringarounds at the corners and force o zone play. and the only time i feel you see defensive pressure by the 1-3-1 is at the defending blueline. it feels designed to do nothing in 2.5 zones to me. stifles the shit out of play between center red and the defending blue line, f*** all nothing anywhere else

maybe i'm making the wrong read but i'm losing faith quickly. we're failing over and over again to score goals but stubbornly refuse to send in an aggressive forecheck or make any pressure until half the ice is lost already. maybe we're just building responsibility this season and it's a multiyear plan? maybe i'm overthinking the possibility of that being an NHL-level decision..

 

[tny760]

There is one fundamental flaw, and it is purely the roster make up. The Kings have nobody other than Iafallo that can win board battles. Once the puck is dumped in, the drop defender is the first one to the puck and he unless he gets to the puck cleanly and quickly, or is set up by the goalie, his responsibility to chip the puck up to the halfwall where the winger either has time to move it to the middle for a breakout or if he doesn't have the time is supposed to absorb the pinch and chip it out of the zone.

That's the failure here. Nobody on the wing is strong enough along the wall to properly set up for the counterpinch and pucks keep getting turned over between the top of the circles and the blueline. Minny scored twice on that exact scenario.

that seems like what i'm seeing but i'm unable to verbalize it.. teams like vegas climb that ladder at the halfwall so easily and quickly, we get eaten alive in that spot

 

[Schmooley]

i've been wholly unimpressed with the system's ability to keep play in the offensive zone, it seems any question of possession in the o zone means defensemen are fleeing back to the neutral zone to prevent counterattacks instead of making any attempt to keep pucks in at the corners. kills me seeing every other team we play constantly keep defensive ringarounds at the corners and force o zone play. and the only time i feel you see defensive pressure by the 1-3-1 is at the defending blueline. it feels designed to do nothing in 2.5 zones to me. stifles the shit out of play between center red and the defending blue line, f*** all nothing anywhere else

maybe i'm making the wrong read but i'm losing faith quickly. we're failing over and over again to score goals but stubbornly refuse to send in an aggressive forecheck or make any pressure until half the ice is lost already. maybe we're just building responsibility this season and it's a multiyear plan? maybe i'm overthinking the possibility of that being an NHL-level decision..

Yea their best games this year were when they were forechecking relentlessly. They are not a good 1-3-1 team. Mainly because they lack size and they are soft. Its easier for bigger tougher players to play that defensive style and clog things up then win the little battles to gain possession.
Playing the 1-3-1 seems counter intuitive to the players they are bringing in that rely on speed and are chippy at best. Seems like they only use their speed when they do that little flip pass into the neutral zone or try to clear it and beat out the icing. They dont convert on these plays enough to make it their gameplan.
I wish theyd stop the 1-3-1 they cant even make it work while holding a lead and yet they even do it when they are losing in games also.

 

[BigKing]

There is one fundamental flaw, and it is purely the roster make up. The Kings have nobody other than Iafallo that can win board battles. Once the puck is dumped in, the drop defender is the first one to the puck and he unless he gets to the puck cleanly and quickly, or is set up by the goalie, his responsibility to chip the puck up to the halfwall where the winger either has time to move it to the middle for a breakout or if he doesn't have the time is supposed to absorb the pinch and chip it out of the zone.

That's the failure here. Nobody on the wing is strong enough along the wall to properly set up for the counterpinch and pucks keep getting turned over between the top of the circles and the blueline. Minny scored twice on that exact scenario.

Iafallo is good at tying defenders up, but not one other winger on this squad has the ability to out battle the opposition. You see turnover after turnover in this area all directly related to the lack of size and grit on the boards.

Brown has always sucked along the wall, now he rarely even bothers to engage. Grundstrom lacks that element as well - the rest of the wingers are all guys who prefer to leave the zone on counterattacks.

And ain't nobody coming up from Ontario to help. They haven't drafted one winger with likely NHL pedigree since Pearson who is a board battler. The days of Lewis, King, Clifford, Toffoli (yes Toffoli, he excelled in that spot) and Pearson executing proper counterpinches and being favorites to win 50/50 battles are loooooong gone.

The Kings are small and soft on the wing. Nothing is really going to change, no matter how good Byfield and Turcotte may be until they get stronger on the wall. Who is going to grind out and hold on to late leads?

Perfectly stated.

What really clicked for me early in the 2009-10 season was how the team was winning board battles more frequently than ever before. All of a sudden it was like, we actually have a hockey team on our hands here.

The softness that I constantly bemoan isn't all about sticking up for each other or setting the tone etc. I mean, those are legit issues but the biggest softness in their game is fly-bys on the forecheck and being allergic to puck battles along the wall. It's just standard hockey stuff and they fail to engage in it.

 

[tny760]

is fly-bys on the forecheck

literally groaned to myself when i read that

holy f*** does that ever piss me off

might as well just run a 4-1 if your "forechecker" is just going to wave his stick from 10 feet away then skate to the bench

 

[bland]

Perfectly stated.

What really clicked for me early in the 2009-10 season was how the team was winning board battles more frequently than ever before. All of a sudden it was like, we actually have a hockey team on our hands here.

The softness that I constantly bemoan isn't all about sticking up for each other or setting the tone etc. I mean, those are legit issues but the biggest softness in their game is fly-bys on the forecheck and being allergic to puck battles along the wall. It's just standard hockey stuff and they fail to engage in it.

Check out the draft choices since 2012. Sodergran and Lee are the only two sizeable wingers and both are longshots to make it. This is consistently an area where the Reign get their teeth kicked in as well.

Kaliyev, that isn't his area of strength either.

There is no help coming from within the organization. The side effect is that the defensemen don't get to practice against that kind of player either, so it stands to reason that they would be ill prepared to deal with it in games as well.

 

[BigKing]

Check out the draft choices since 2012. Sodergran and Lee are the only two sizeable wingers and both are longshots to make it. This is consistently an area where the Reign get their teeth kicked in as well.

Kaliyev, that isn't his area of strength either.

There is no help coming from within the organization. The side effect is that the defensemen don't get to practice against that kind of player either, so it stands to reason that they would be ill prepared to deal with it in games as well.

Yep. There is usually a correlation as well between character and hard work which would help with the whole culture issue. Bless the hearts of Moore and Lizotte but the Kings need some guys with that type of motor with at least average size.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Did Lemeiux miss the last game bc of injury?

 

[YP44]

Did Lemeiux miss the last game bc of injury?

thought he was healthy scratched

 

[AlphaBravo]

Lemeiux was a dumb pick up. I get the rationale for getting him so that MacD doesn't play, but he is just another bottom 6er in our many on the roster. I am sure players like AA and Andersson could take on the tough guy role (not that fighting is required in this age, instead some physicality). We need roster spots at this point to get the kids some playing time.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The Kings have regressed from the improvements we saw a year ago, from their overall GAA to their possession stats. The only area we've seen slight improvement is their goals per game, which went from 2.43 in 2018-19, to 2.53 in 2019-20 (McLellan's first year), and this year it's at 2.64. That said, their goals for has been among the worst in the league for years now.

The goals against improved in McLellan's first year, going from a 3.16 to a 2.99 GAA. This season they're giving up an average of 3.00.

But what's most frustrating is that the team's possession game has dropped off completely from the improvements we saw last year. Believe it or not, the Kings were the fourth best possession team in McLellan's first season, with a CF% of 53. The year before that they were ranked 23rd at 48%, and this season the Kings have regressed to 49%.

Herein lies the frustration with the Jekyll and Hyde Kings.

 

[jfont]

He got ‘lucky’ with Gaborik as well.

Dean inherited a strong core. Kopitar, Brown, Quick. Built up draft capital and maximized prospects.

Then made moves to acquire proper players in trades. Got Stoll/Green. Williams. Signed Mitchell.

Realized the roster was ready to spend prospects for established talent. Richards.

Voynov made Johnson expendable. On came Carter.

Dean to me looked like someone addicted to gambling. At trade deadline, Gaborik looked to have worked out to a shockingly good level.

Then came Sekera. Big loss.
On came Lucic. Big loss.

Gambled on new contracts. Gaborik was awful. Brown and Quick got hefty paydays.

Gambled Richards would be better. Big loss.

Didn’t try to recover assets when Williams and Stoll were in the last year.

Sutter lost the room. Dean didn’t fire.

Dean ran out of chips. Then he was out of a job.

Drafting pre-2012 is a "C" grade at best

 

[SFKingshomer]

I wish we had DL back. He could at least build the culture part. This team hasn't had any heart since the Vegas pool party.

 

[Piston]

Yep. There is usually a correlation as well between character and hard work which would help with the whole culture issue. Bless the hearts of Moore and Lizotte but the Kings need some guys with that type of motor with at least average size.

Who are some UFAs that can make up this deficiency? With most teams up against the Cap and others with internal spending limits, the Kings should be able to find these kind of players on the open market.

 

[Johnny Utah]

The only issue with the Lemieux pick up was that Boko Imama was proving to have some upside this year.

 

[YP44]

The only issue with the Lemieux pick up was that Boko Imama was proving to have some upside this year.

I don't see Boko being an NHL regular. Hope he proves me wrong.

what was wrong with Lemieux is LA already as a plethora of bottom 6 players.

 

[BigKing]

Who are some UFAs that can make up this deficiency? With most teams up against the Cap and others with internal spending limits, the Kings should be able to find these kind of players on the open market.

I'd like Foligno but he wouldn't come here short of a major overpayment. I wouldn't mind the overpayment dollar wise but term is the issue here.

Landeskog is a pipe dream as well.

We've seen pretty much nothing good at the pro-scouting level since Blake took over. Keumper signing is probably the best one. AA is a good one too but that was pretty much a freebie. This is partly why I'm both scared and excited to see what Blake does because he doesn't have many significant moves under his belt when it comes to making the current product better and the ones that he does have are generally poor.

It would really be nice to see some of the reasoning for that "Had to hire Blake now or else we would lose him because he's so coveted" sentiment from when he was brought in. Here's to hoping.

 

[bland]

The Kings have regressed from the improvements we saw a year ago, from their overall GAA to their possession stats. The only area we've seen slight improvement is their goals per game, which went from 2.43 in 2018-19, to 2.53 in 2019-20 (McLellan's first year), and this year it's at 2.64. That said, their goals for has been among the worst in the league for years now.

The goals against improved in McLellan's first year, going from a 3.16 to a 2.99 GAA. This season they're giving up an average of 3.00.

But what's most frustrating is that the team's possession game has dropped off completely from the improvements we saw last year. Believe it or not, the Kings were the fourth best possession team in McLellan's first season, with a CF% of 53. The year before that they were ranked 23rd at 48%, and this season the Kings have regressed to 49%.

Herein lies the frustration with the Jekyll and Hyde Kings.

Toffoli, Lewis and Clifford left. All three were excellent board players who could consistently win battles. Pucks left the zone cleanly and they were recovered more often on the forecheck. Sure, two of the three didn't do much to turn that possession into offense, but it is all part of the equation. Carter was shifted to wing, Athanasiou came in and Moore replaced Clifford. Moore has a high motor and has done fairly well along the wall, but the rest are soft as a feather.

That element of the possession game has left the team entirely.

 

[Fishhead]

Drafting pre-2012 is a "C" grade at best

I don't know about a C. From 09-11, 16 of the Kings 21 draft picks saw NHL time. That's pretty insane, over 75%. Not many teams can match that.

Some pretty good players drafted in that time too - Schenn, Clifford, Toffoli have a ton of games. Then role players like Delauriers, Nolan, Dowd, etc.

And in the two drafts before that they got Doughty, Voynov, Simmonds, and Martinez. Hickey carved out a good career, and King made some big contributions to the cups.

Seems pretty damn successful to me.

 

[Fishhead]

Toffoli, Lewis and Clifford left. All three were excellent board players who could consistently win battles. Pucks left the zone cleanly and they were recovered more often on the forecheck. Sure, two of the three didn't do much to turn that possession into offense, but it is all part of the equation. Carter was shifted to wing, Athanasiou came in and Moore replaced Clifford. Moore has a high motor and has done fairly well along the wall, but the rest are soft as a feather.

That element of the possession game has left the team entirely.

This is one of the reasons I want to see Vilardi on the wing. He has that element to his game and he won't have to skate as much.