2020-21 Around the League Part II

[Pokecheque]

PLD is very good, but he isn't their best player or their second best player. Jones and Werenski are ahead of him.

The difference in a Cup contender firing their coach and the Jackets firing their coach is one of expectations. You can have a Cup team 'treading water' at a pace that is near the top of the league, but still needs that kick in the ass. This was a team that nobody gave a chance to and he took them to the playoffs and gave the Cup winners a series. He is a great coach and has done great things there. You don't fire him the offseason after what he has done last season and the previous seasons. Torts is by far the most successful coach in Columbus history and has exceeded the expectations nearly every year.

I agree continuity is overrated, and coaches can be swapped around... but a coach should be performing below expectations to get canned. Torts isn't and shouldn't get canned right now. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for Columbus to have a rough season. It would allow them to get a high pick to help replace PLD and would give a reason to part with Torts. At this point there is no saving the PLD situation, and there probably hasn't been for a while. Even if they fired Torts, he was going to want to move on.

There are such things as franchise players. There's no such thing as a franchise coach. The worm is already starting to turn in Columbus. I don't think an organization has to wait until the whole damned thing has burned to the ground before they finally do something. You know they're going to fire him, and it's more than likely going to happen at the end of this season if things continue to go the way they are. Why wait? Just do it now and get it the hell over with.

I agree that firing Torts to save the situation with PLD is probably futile at this point. But you keep trying to cite reasons to keep a toxic work environment in place because of past accomplishments and I say that's just doing more harm than good. Results should not be the ONLY thing that matter here, especially when the results really aren't that impressive, aren't sustainable, and we're now seeing that Lumbus team unraveling with very serious long-term implications.

Despite very obvious red flags, Toronto decided to give it one more go with Babcock at the helm. How'd that work out for 'em?

And "most successful coach in Columbus history" ain't sayin' much.

 

[henchman21]

There are such things as franchise players. There's no such thing as a franchise coach. The worm is already starting to turn in Columbus. I don't think an organization has to wait until the whole damned thing has burned to the ground before they finally do something. You know they're going to fire him, and it's more than likely going to happen at the end of this season if things continue to go the way they are. Why wait? Just do it now and get it the hell over with.

I agree that firing Torts to save the situation with PLD is probably futile at this point. But you keep trying to cite reasons to keep a toxic work environment in place because of past accomplishments and I say that's just doing more harm than good. Results should not be the ONLY thing that matter here, especially when the results really aren't that impressive, aren't sustainable, and we're now seeing that Lumbus team unraveling with very serious long-term implications.

Despite very obvious red flags, Toronto decided to give it one more go with Babcock at the helm. How'd that work out for 'em?

And "most successful coach in Columbus history" ain't sayin' much.

I agree with you that there isn't a franchise coach. A very good reason not to fire Torts is that Columbus is bleeding money and they have to pay him anyway. It is a shortened season, if Torts loses the team and things spiral, they get a high pick without having to pay excess. Many teams hold on to the coaches to finish the season and re-set then.

Torts is demanding and rough around the edges, but you can't with a straight face say he's a bad coach. He's a top 5 coach in this league. Many of those that play for him don't like him, but I don't believe that players have to like their coach to get results. The only team Torts has not improved in his tenure was Vancouver, and that was doomed from the very start with that organization. Every other team he has coached has gotten better and results out of them. He always wears out his welcome, but he always makes that team better. He took Tampa from a terrible team to a Cup and a consistent playoff team. He took a Rags team to the brink of a Cup appearance. He took a Columbus team that had been in the playoffs once prior and has made them a consistent playoff team and winning a round. He gets results because he is a good coach. I know this wouldn't be a popular thought here, but I wouldn't mind him here if Bednar falters. He'd be a polar opposite coach and push this team as hard as they could take.

Your quip on most successful coach not being much is kinda key to the whole point here. He is the only coach to ever have success there. He has changed that culture around the team for the positive and made them respectable. I get that you don't like him, but he gets results.

Just look at his comments here... this is a guy that demands his players stay accountable. How is that bad? He's rough around the edges and a dick, but so was Scotty Bowman.

 

[henchman21]

NHL goaltending depth has never been more important: Duhatschek notebook

 

[Foppa2118]

Torts is single handedly going to ruin any hope of that organization getting to the next level.

I don't know if you can fire him right now and set a precedent that a player can get a coach fired, but the quicker Jarmo cans his ass, the better. They should have done it a long time ago. Torts is a short term coach.

That Dubois "puck battle" looks like he just lost the puck in his feet. You can hear one of the players yell, "feet!" Torts using that as an excuse to bench him all game is why he's such an A hole.

If your whole strategy to get the most out of your players is to piss them off and make them afraid of you, it's not going to work very long.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I agree with you that there isn't a franchise coach. A very good reason not to fire Torts is that Columbus is bleeding money and they have to pay him anyway. It is a shortened season, if Torts loses the team and things spiral, they get a high pick without having to pay excess. Many teams hold on to the coaches to finish the season and re-set then.

Torts is demanding and rough around the edges, but you can't with a straight face say he's a bad coach. He's a top 5 coach in this league. Many of those that play for him don't like him, but I don't believe that players have to like their coach to get results. The only team Torts has not improved in his tenure was Vancouver, and that was doomed from the very start with that organization. Every other team he has coached has gotten better and results out of them. He always wears out his welcome, but he always makes that team better. He took Tampa from a terrible team to a Cup and a consistent playoff team. He took a Rags team to the brink of a Cup appearance. He took a Columbus team that had been in the playoffs once prior and has made them a consistent playoff team and winning a round. He gets results because he is a good coach. I know this wouldn't be a popular thought here, but I wouldn't mind him here if Bednar falters. He'd be a polar opposite coach and push this team as hard as they could take.

Your quip on most successful coach not being much is kinda key to the whole point here. He is the only coach to ever have success there. He has changed that culture around the team for the positive and made them respectable. I get that you don't like him, but he gets results.

Just look at his comments here... this is a guy that demands his players stay accountable. How is that bad? He's rough around the edges and a dick, but so was Scotty Bowman.

Torts would be an entertaining coach for the Avs. Would he yield better results than Bednar? Possibly.

I would REALLY worry about the growth of young players on the team though.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Sounds a lot to me like he's a great coach for bottom of the league teams. He gets the most out of what is available. But for whatever reason, he doesn't realize that with a Cup contending or worthy team, the tactics might have to change. I would have preferred him over the Granato's and Sacco's of the world, but not Bednar. Bednar has shown he can communicate really well with this team. I'm not sure Torts has it in him to coach truly elite players.

 

[Foppa2118]

Yeah, lets fire the guy who has made the playoffs 4/5 seasons he has been with the team, and lost 4x to future SC champion/finalist...

Yeah and in those four seasons, they've only made it past the first round once where they only won two games.

If you take out that season, they've only won 4 games in the 3 other playoff series.

They've been Wild Card teams two of the four seasons, and the third they only got in the playoffs because of the flukey play in format, where they were out of the playoffs, but barely squeaked by the Leafs 3-2 in the play in.

That's why they're always playing good teams in the playoffs, because they're not good during the regular season.

The best regular season they had in 2016-17 were they were 3rd in the Metro, they only won one game in the playoffs and got bounced in the first round. Three of the losses weren't that close either, losing by two and three goals.

Torts gets too much credit IMO for Tampa shitting the bed a couple years ago.

 

[henchman21]

Torts would be an entertaining coach for the Avs. Would he yield better results than Bednar? Possibly.

I would REALLY worry about the growth of young players on the team though.

I wouldn't worry about the growth of their games. Just look at how Richards, St Louis, and Lecavalier grew in Tampa under his coaching. How Dubinsky, Callahan, McDonagh, and Stralman grew in New York. Same with PLD, Jones, Werenski, Anderson, and Bjorkstrand grew in Columbus. Columbus was just as young as the Avs last year and had 5 players graduate. He can develop and push young players. The downside with Torts is he makes the game boring and methodical. He's going to be at war with his team constantly, and he's going to push some players out and flat out break some of them.

 

[LOFIN]

Yeah and in those four seasons, they've only made it past the first round once where they only won two games.

If you take out that season, they've only won 4 games in the 3 other playoff series.

Last year they were out of the playoff picture and only got in because of the flukey play in format, where they barely squeaked by the Leafs 3-2. Torts gets too much credit IMO for Tampa shitting the bed a couple years ago.

Like I pointed out, they have lost against the eventual SC champions, or finalists (2019 Bruins). I don't think anyone has even seen them as a contender, more as a bubble team. Torts has done fantastic job with the jackets. There has been zero reason to fire him. You might do it, if the losing continues. But I would still trade PLD in that case.

 

[henchman21]

Sounds a lot to me like he's a great coach for bottom of the league teams. He gets the most out of what is available. But for whatever reason, he doesn't realize that with a Cup contending or worthy team, the tactics might have to change. I would have preferred him over the Granato's and Sacco's of the world, but not Bednar. Bednar has shown he can communicate really well with this team. I'm not sure Torts has it in him to coach truly elite players.

St Louis, Lecavalier, and Richards were elite for him in Tampa and he won a Cup (he was a key reason those players ended up elite... especially Vinny). Gaborik was the best player he ever was under Torts and they nearly went to the Cup finals there (with Richards and Hank). His history has more results than Bednar, by a good margin.

 

[Foppa2118]

Like I pointed out, they have lost against the eventual SC champions, or finalists (2019 Bruins). I don't think anyone has even seen them as a contender, more as a bubble team. Torts has done fantastic job with the jackets. There has been zero reason to fire him. You might do it, if the losing continues. But I would still trade PLD in that case.

Right and like I pointed out, they played those teams because they didn't play well in the regular season and barely made it into the playoffs.

So I don't think you can lean on the fact they lost because of who they played. If he gets credit for that, he doesn't get credit for beating Tampa. Can't have it both ways.

 

[LOFIN]

Right and like I pointed out, they played those teams because they didn't play well in the regular season and barely made it into the playoffs.

So I don't think you can lean on the fact they lost because of who they played. If he gets credit for that, he doesn't get credit for beating Tampa. Can't have it both ways.

Sure you can, it's about the expectations.

 

[Foppa2118]

St Louis, Lecavalier, and Richards were elite for him in Tampa and he won a Cup (he was a key reason those players ended up elite... especially Vinny). Gaborik was the best player he ever was under Torts and they nearly went to the Cup finals there (with Richards and Hank). His history has more results than Bednar, by a good margin.

That was 17 years ago. He deserves credit for it, but winning the Cup doesn't automatically make you a great coach. Marc Crawford won a Cup and he's a pretty mediocre coach IMO.

Look at Torts record with Tampa outside that Cup year.

The year before, they only won one game in the second round before getting bounced.

The three years after they won the Cup, they lost in the first round only winning one game. Then they lost in the first round again, only winning two games.

Then they missed the playoffs in his final season finishing dead last in the entire NHL.

 

[Pokecheque]

I agree with you that there isn't a franchise coach. A very good reason not to fire Torts is that Columbus is bleeding money and they have to pay him anyway. It is a shortened season, if Torts loses the team and things spiral, they get a high pick without having to pay excess. Many teams hold on to the coaches to finish the season and re-set then.

Torts is demanding and rough around the edges, but you can't with a straight face say he's a bad coach. He's a top 5 coach in this league. Many of those that play for him don't like him, but I don't believe that players have to like their coach to get results. The only team Torts has not improved in his tenure was Vancouver, and that was doomed from the very start with that organization. Every other team he has coached has gotten better and results out of them. He always wears out his welcome, but he always makes that team better. He took Tampa from a terrible team to a Cup and a consistent playoff team. He took a Rags team to the brink of a Cup appearance. He took a Columbus team that had been in the playoffs once prior and has made them a consistent playoff team and winning a round. He gets results because he is a good coach. I know this wouldn't be a popular thought here, but I wouldn't mind him here if Bednar falters. He'd be a polar opposite coach and push this team as hard as they could take.

At no point did I say he was a bad coach, just like Mike Babcock is not a bad coach. Babcock is a good coach. He's also an abusive prick, and after reading Pierre LeBrun's hagiographic piece of shit column about Babs' return to hockey, he doesn't have an ounce of remorse about it. The results do not justify the toxic behavior, there's evidence that Torts is not just "rough around the edges" or merely demanding. His increasingly hostile behavior toward the media is indicative of how he's approaching the job as a whole, and if that's the case, he's likely running those players into the ground. Too often we've seen toxic individuals hold court in sports merely because they got results. That's starting to change, and that's a good thing.

Your quip on most successful coach not being much is kinda key to the whole point here. He is the only coach to ever have success there. He has changed that culture around the team for the positive and made them respectable. I get that you don't like him, but he gets results.

What's key is that the Columbus Blue Jackets have only been around for 20 years, and a vast majority of those years have been abject failures. You keep presenting Torts's accomplishments in Lumbus as some grand achievement, and really, it's not much better than what the Nuggets did when Dan Issel was their head coach. Yes, I loved the first round upset against the Bucks way back when--it was a great Denver sports moment. But it ended up being the best thing that franchise accomplished for the next 25 years. For obvious reasons, I don't really brag about that as a Nuggets fan.

All this says to me is that Torts kept a wayward franchise from falling over the cliff in light of their best-ever player opting out of his contract. He's a band-aid...nothing more.

And I don't think for a MOMENT he has changed that culture for the positive--quite the contrary. I suppose he's made them more respectable to the public, but to me that's right up there with "moral victory." Truth of the matter is that they aren't building upon recent successes, and in fact might be falling apart behind the scenes.

Just look at his comments here... this is a guy that demands his players stay accountable. How is that bad? He's rough around the edges and a dick, but so was Scotty Bowman.

This is just gaslighting bullshit. Again, Dubois is not free from blame here, but he's trying to talk his way out of a toxic situation that he himself has created. And he's a very intelligent man and very well-spoken, so people are likely going to give him a pass.

How is that bad? Come on dude...I KNOW you're not that obstinate.

Also, Scotty Bowman probably wouldn't be a hugely successful coach in today's NHL. Times have changed, and authoritarians like Ken Hitchcock (whom I've admired for a very long time), Tortorella, and David Quinn are not really the types of coaches you can have these days and expect long-term success. We can keep going around and around on this, but ultimately, you and I know Torts is not long for this job, and IMO sticking with him will be what ends up costing Jarmo his.

 

[Foppa2118]

That was 17 years ago. He deserves credit for it, but winning the Cup doesn't automatically make you a great coach. Marc Crawford won a Cup and he's a pretty mediocre coach IMO.

Look at Torts record with Tampa outside that Cup year.

The year before, they only won one game in the second round before getting bounced.

The three years after they won the Cup, they lost in the first round only winning one game. Then they lost in the first round again, only winning two games.

Then they missed the playoffs in his final season finishing dead last in the entire NHL.

Same with his record in New York outside the one year they lost in the Eastern Finals 4-2.

His first year with NYR they lost in seven games in the first round. His second year they missed the playoffs. His third year they lost in the first round again, only winning one game.

Then his final year they barely made it past the first round in seven games, and then got bounced in the second round, only winning one game again.

He was fired after the player exit meetings with Sather where some called it a player mutiny, and Lundqvist was very non committal about returning and was said to be a big reason why Torts was let go.

Then he went to Vancouver for one year where they missed the playoffs finishing 25th in the league, and was fired again.

 

[Richard88]

I agree with you that there isn't a franchise coach. A very good reason not to fire Torts is that Columbus is bleeding money and they have to pay him anyway. It is a shortened season, if Torts loses the team and things spiral, they get a high pick without having to pay excess. Many teams hold on to the coaches to finish the season and re-set then.

Torts is demanding and rough around the edges, but you can't with a straight face say he's a bad coach. He's a top 5 coach in this league. Many of those that play for him don't like him, but I don't believe that players have to like their coach to get results. The only team Torts has not improved in his tenure was Vancouver, and that was doomed from the very start with that organization. Every other team he has coached has gotten better and results out of them. He always wears out his welcome, but he always makes that team better. He took Tampa from a terrible team to a Cup and a consistent playoff team. He took a Rags team to the brink of a Cup appearance. He took a Columbus team that had been in the playoffs once prior and has made them a consistent playoff team and winning a round. He gets results because he is a good coach. I know this wouldn't be a popular thought here, but I wouldn't mind him here if Bednar falters. He'd be a polar opposite coach and push this team as hard as they could take.

Your quip on most successful coach not being much is kinda key to the whole point here. He is the only coach to ever have success there. He has changed that culture around the team for the positive and made them respectable. I get that you don't like him, but he gets results.

Just look at his comments here... this is a guy that demands his players stay accountable. How is that bad? He's rough around the edges and a dick, but so was Scotty Bowman.

Based on last night's game this team could probably do with a drill sergeant to keep their effort levels honest.

 

[henchman21]

At no point did I say he was a bad coach, just like Mike Babcock is not a bad coach. Babcock is a good coach. He's also an abusive prick, and after reading Pierre LeBrun's hagiographic piece of shit column about Babs' return to hockey, he doesn't have an ounce of remorse about it. The results do not justify the toxic behavior, there's evidence that Torts is not just "rough around the edges" or merely demanding. His increasingly hostile behavior toward the media is indicative of how he's approaching the job as a whole, and if that's the case, he's likely running those players into the ground. Too often we've seen toxic individuals hold court in sports merely because they got results. That's starting to change, and that's a good thing.



What's key is that the Columbus Blue Jackets have only been around for 20 years, and a vast majority of those years have been abject failures. You keep presenting Torts's accomplishments in Lumbus as some grand achievement, and really, it's not much better than what the Nuggets did when Dan Issel was their head coach. Yes, I loved the first round upset against the Bucks way back when--it was a great Denver sports moment. But it ended up being the best thing that franchise accomplished for the next 25 years. For obvious reasons, I don't really brag about that as a Nuggets fan.

All this says to me is that Torts kept a wayward franchise from falling over the cliff in light of their best-ever player opting out of his contract. He's a band-aid...nothing more.

And I don't think for a MOMENT he has changed that culture for the positive--quite the contrary. I suppose he's made them more respectable to the public, but to me that's right up there with "moral victory." Truth of the matter is that they aren't building upon recent successes, and in fact might be falling apart behind the scenes.



This is just gaslighting bullshit. Again, Dubois is not free from blame here, but he's trying to talk his way out of a toxic situation that he himself has created. And he's a very intelligent man and very well-spoken, so people are likely going to give him a pass.

How is that bad? Come on dude...I KNOW you're not that obstinate.

Also, Scotty Bowman probably wouldn't be a hugely successful coach in today's NHL. Times have changed, and authoritarians like Ken Hitchcock (whom I've admired for a very long time), Tortorella, and David Quinn are not really the types of coaches you can have these days and expect long-term success. We can keep going around and around on this, but ultimately, you and I know Torts is not long for this job, and IMO sticking with him will be what ends up costing Jarmo his.

I think your hatred over who Torts is and his 'toxic' environment really skews your view of him. He's a damn good coach. One of the very best in the NHL and the results very clearly show that. Torts isn't long for his job in Columbus, but I'm always one of the first to say getting 4-5 years is a good run. Torts has had his run there, and it has been a very good one there. If he is available this offseason to teams, he should be the second call any team makes for their vacancy right after Gallant. He would improve most any team beyond Boston, Tampa, and Isles. Put him with this team, and the Avs might be less fun to watch... but they'd make the Finals.

 

[Foppa2118]

Sure you can, it's about the expectations.

I'm just saying we're placing too much emphasis on the quality of the opponent, when rating how good a job he did or didn't do.

So to me, I don't think we can say he lost because he played good teams, while at the same time giving him extra credit for beating a good team like Tampa.

It just feels designed to give him credit no matter what. His results should speak for themselves, and in most seasons during his coaching career, he has had poor results.

 

[LOFIN]

I'm just saying we're basing how good a job he did/didn't do on the quality of the opponent if that's the case.

So to me, I don't think we can say he lost because he played good teams, while at the same time giving him extra credit for beating a good team like Tampa.

Upsets happen. That's sports. I think it's pretty normal for giving "a small team" credit for beating the superior opponent, and on the other hand act like "oh well, it was expected" if you lose against them.

You don't have to agree with me on this one, but there has been zero reason for JK to relieve Torts so far.

 

[UncleRisto]

Besides, I don't think he's very skilled, I swear it's really like Dubois is some wood.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

I don't think there is much doubt about Torts skills and talent as a coach.

What surprises me a bit is that in the current era (at least here in Quebec), where there is a renewed focus on weeding bullying, intimidation and disrespect out of our schools, offices, businesses and public offices, Torts is blatantly doing it on camera and its accepted without a word in that environment.

But I guess.... Trump...

 

[Pokecheque]

I think your hatred over who Torts is and his 'toxic' environment really skews your view of him. He's a damn good coach. One of the very best in the NHL and the results very clearly show that. Torts isn't long for his job in Columbus, but I'm always one of the first to say getting 4-5 years is a good run. Torts has had his run there, and it has been a very good one there. If he is available this offseason to teams, he should be the second call any team makes for their vacancy right after Gallant. He would improve most any team beyond Boston, Tampa, and Isles. Put him with this team, and the Avs might be less fun to watch... but they'd make the Finals.

Naw. I don't really hate Torts. On the contrary, I think he's a good guy. Outside of the rink, he may be exemplary. I work in rescue and he's a hero amongst those people. He's had countless foster fails and has taken his entire gaggle of dogs with him at every NHL stop. He's an extremely intelligent, witty, and well-spoken man. I love him as a commentator. I've also, until recently, been an ardent fan of his as a coach. I agree that the results are there--he is indeed a very good coach, excellent even.

But he also used to be only occasionally combative with the press (and really, I don't blame him one bit for not putting up with Larry Brooks's shit). For the most part, he was game for pressers and spoke his mind, again, very eloquently. Even when he was mad, like when he butted heads with Ken Hitchcock and Bob Hartley, he aired out his thoughts with the press. But these days, he goes out of his way to be a dick to the media, and for no good reason. He'll go entire pressers without answering a single question. Something seems very wrong with him in recent years, and I don't know what that is or what's causing it. The culture of hockey is changing, and maybe he's pushing back the other way...? I don't know, but whatever it is, I think it's also showing up in the locker room. It could be that Torts needs a reset as much as the Jackets do.

So no, I don't hate Torts. I don't like what he's doing in Columbus though, and I think he has indeed fostered and cultivated a toxic environment. And those "results" are not as impressive as you're making them IMO.

And sure, go ahead, hire Torts after Bednar gets fired, the latter of which will happen eventually. But I hope you're prepared for Nathan MacKinnon to go elsewhere once his current deal expires. No way, no effin' how would those two strong personalities coexist peacefully.

 

[Richard88]

Naw. I don't really hate Torts. On the contrary, I think he's a good guy. Outside of the rink, he may be exemplary. I work in rescue and he's a hero amongst those people. He's had countless foster fails and has taken his entire gaggle of dogs with him at every NHL stop. He's an extremely intelligent, witty, and well-spoken man. I love him as a commentator. I've also, until recently, been an ardent fan of his as a coach. I agree that the results are there--he is indeed a very good coach, excellent even.

But he also used to be only occasionally combative with the press (and really, I don't blame him one bit for not putting up with Larry Brooks's shit). For the most part, he was game for pressers and spoke his mind, again, very eloquently. Even when he was mad, like when he butted heads with Ken Hitchcock and Bob Hartley, he aired out his thoughts with the press. But these days, he goes out of his way to be a dick to the media, and for no good reason. He'll go entire pressers without answering a single question. Something seems very wrong with him in recent years, and I don't know what that is or what's causing it. The culture of hockey is changing, and maybe he's pushing back the other way...? I don't know, but whatever it is, I think it's also showing up in the locker room. It could be that Torts needs a reset as much as the Jackets do.

So no, I don't hate Torts. I don't like what he's doing in Columbus though, and I think he has indeed fostered and cultivated a toxic environment. And those "results" are not as impressive as you're making them IMO.

And sure, go ahead, hire Torts after Bednar gets fired, the latter of which will happen eventually. But I hope you're prepared for Nathan MacKinnon to go elsewhere once his current deal expires. No way, no effin' how would those two strong personalities coexist peacefully.

Part of me wants us to have Tortorella as coach just for the comedic value of getting to watch him shoot down Chambers and the other legends reporting on the Avs.

 

[UncleRisto]

 

[henchman21]

I don't think there is much doubt about Torts skills and talent as a coach.

What surprises me a bit is that in the current era (at least here in Quebec), where there is a renewed focus on weeding bullying, intimidation and disrespect out of our schools, offices, businesses and public offices, Torts is blatantly doing it on camera and its accepted without a word in that environment.

But I guess.... Trump...

Many players speak well of him, and universally, none of them say he's ever crossed the line. Even Duclair who Torts would repeatedly go after said that his relationship with him was good. Even Marc Denis who Torts pretty much destroyed all of his confidence and thus his career, even said that Torts never crossed the line. He's demanding and tough to play for, but he's not unfair and he's not abusive. He's not Babcock asking a rookie to create a list to use against him. He's in front of the whole team stating his list in no uncertain terms. He's blunt, honest, and not political. Kevin Bieksa has a great story of a mistake he made in a game and Torts.. people should seek that out.

Naw. I don't really hate Torts. On the contrary, I think he's a good guy. Outside of the rink, he may be exemplary. I work in rescue and he's a hero amongst those people. He's had countless foster fails and has taken his entire gaggle of dogs with him at every NHL stop. He's an extremely intelligent, witty, and well-spoken man. I love him as a commentator. I've also, until recently, been an ardent fan of his as a coach. I agree that the results are there--he is indeed a very good coach, excellent even.

But he also used to be only occasionally combative with the press (and really, I don't blame him one bit for not putting up with Larry Brooks's shit). For the most part, he was game for pressers and spoke his mind, again, very eloquently. Even when he was mad, like when he butted heads with Ken Hitchcock and Bob Hartley, he aired out his thoughts with the press. But these days, he goes out of his way to be a dick to the media, and for no good reason. He'll go entire pressers without answering a single question. Something seems very wrong with him in recent years, and I don't know what that is or what's causing it. The culture of hockey is changing, and maybe he's pushing back the other way...? I don't know, but whatever it is, I think it's also showing up in the locker room. It could be that Torts needs a reset as much as the Jackets do.

So no, I don't hate Torts. I don't like what he's doing in Columbus though, and I think he has indeed fostered and cultivated a toxic environment. And those "results" are not as impressive as you're making them IMO.

And sure, go ahead, hire Torts after Bednar gets fired, the latter of which will happen eventually. But I hope you're prepared for Nathan MacKinnon to go elsewhere once his current deal expires. No way, no effin' how would those two strong personalities coexist peacefully.

Fair enough. We should probably let some other topics come up.

I'll just say I think MacK would thrive under a coach that pushes and demands as much as Torts. They'd certainly have their battles, but MacK would end up a Selke winner and still put up 90+ a season. Players like Kadri and Rantanen would be much more of my concern.