Speculation: 2020-2021 Sharks Roster Discussion Part 8

[one2gamble]

How come Kane is no longer fighting?
I'm wondering if that was on orders or just a personal decision

Boogie told him to chill

 

[Groo]

We picked Gabriel and Viel to fill that role so Kane wouldn't have to answer the bell all the time for the team. With Kane not in the box so much, he has become more productive.

That was My though on Gabriel when we signed him. One look at his fight catalog and I knew he was just here to take punches and penalty minutes away from Kane. Viel I believe was already in our system

 

[tahoesharksfan]

Boogie told him to chill

He's been playing a lot better without allowing such things to be a distraction...

 

[matt trick]

Even with Vlasic at 30% retained ($2.1M) not sure if he's movable. $2.1M to open up that spot is probably worthwhile, particularly if we end up with Hughes/Edvinson/Power/Clarke. I think all those guys have #2 D-man potential. One of them, Ferraro, Karlsson, and Merkley would be a solid top 4. Of course we'll likely pick ~8th, meaning they, Berniers, Guenther, and Eklund will be off the board.

I get that everyone is sick of Jones, but given SJ will likely suck for at least two more years, not sure he's worth paying to get rid of his third year.

Teams can only have two 'retention trades' at any one time, right? If so, got to be cautious how you use them. If someone will take Vlasic, you have to use one there, but it would also be helpful (critical?) to maximize value for Hertl, Meier, and Burns.

 

[tealzamboni]

How come Kane is no longer fighting?
I'm wondering if that was on orders or just a personal decision

I think he kinda needs the money . . . so suspensions/fines = bad.

But, I do get the impression that he's been "challenged" to be a bit more disciplined. And he's complying because it makes sense and because the Sharks are going to do him a solid in his case.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Even with Vlasic at 30% retained ($2.1M) not sure if he's movable. $2.1M to open up that spot is probably worthwhile, particularly if we end up with Hughes/Edvinson/Power/Clarke. I think all those guys have #2 D-man potential. One of them, Ferraro, Karlsson, and Merkley would be a solid top 4. Of course we'll likely pick ~8th, meaning they, Berniers, Guenther, and Eklund will be off the board.

I get that everyone is sick of Jones, but given SJ will likely suck for at least two more years, not sure he's worth paying to get rid of his third year.

Teams can only have two 'retention trades' at any one time, right? If so, got to be cautious how you use them. If someone will take Vlasic, you have to use one there, but it would also be helpful (critical?) to maximize value for Hertl, Meier, and Burns.

You get three retention spots.

 

[magic school bus]

Even with Vlasic at 30% retained ($2.1M) not sure if he's movable. $2.1M to open up that spot is probably worthwhile, particularly if we end up with Hughes/Edvinson/Power/Clarke. I think all those guys have #2 D-man potential. One of them, Ferraro, Karlsson, and Merkley would be a solid top 4. Of course we'll likely pick ~8th, meaning they, Berniers, Guenther, and Eklund will be off the board.

I get that everyone is sick of Jones, but given SJ will likely suck for at least two more years, not sure he's worth paying to get rid of his third year.

Teams can only have two 'retention trades' at any one time, right? If so, got to be cautious how you use them. If someone will take Vlasic, you have to use one there, but it would also be helpful (critical?) to maximize value for Hertl, Meier, and Burns.

We can't have Jones around anymore. It's done. Nobody can play well around him because they don't believe he can make the saves.

Do people honestly still believe Merkley's going to be a top-4 dman?

I think you can retain on 3 players, which shouldn't be an issue for us since the only contracts that *have* to be reduced in order to trade them are Vlasic, Burns, Karlsson and Jones.

 

[tealzamboni]

The only players worth keeping on this team are Ferraro, Donato, and Leonard. Truly amazing. This team better get blown to hell this summer, good lord.

I did a double take on Donato. It's amazing that early in the year he was a promising middle six forward with good size, speed, and dangle. At this point in the season, the system and coaching have turned him into a classic Sharks bottom sixer with stiff knees/wrists that just moves pucks along the boards. Same could be said for a lot of the players.

 

[Gecklund]

Even with Vlasic at 30% retained ($2.1M) not sure if he's movable. $2.1M to open up that spot is probably worthwhile, particularly if we end up with Hughes/Edvinson/Power/Clarke. I think all those guys have #2 D-man potential. One of them, Ferraro, Karlsson, and Merkley would be a solid top 4. Of course we'll likely pick ~8th, meaning they, Berniers, Guenther, and Eklund will be off the board.

I get that everyone is sick of Jones, but given SJ will likely suck for at least two more years, not sure he's worth paying to get rid of his third year.

Teams can only have two 'retention trades' at any one time, right? If so, got to be cautious how you use them. If someone will take Vlasic, you have to use one there, but it would also be helpful (critical?) to maximize value for Hertl, Meier, and Burns.

I don’t know if all of those D will be off the board by then. Also I think saying they have #2 potential might be misleading. I think that’s their ceiling but more likely they end up as a top 4 D.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

I get that everyone is sick of Jones, but given SJ will likely suck for at least two more years, not sure he's worth paying to get rid of his third year.

I agree with this line of thinking. We should be looking for a promising young goalie and let Jones be an expensive backup while we stink.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I agree with this line of thinking. We should be looking for a promising young goalie and let Jones be an expensive backup while we stink.

Problem is that this organization won't just let him be a backup. There isn't much out there that you can get to really put your money on. That's just how most goalies are so if we keep Jones, we're giving him every chance to be worth his contract and he will likely fail every time. They need to remove that temptation from the team. If they're going to be bad the next two years, they should just rotate Korenar and Melnichuk while they build the rest of the team because they need elite talent and center depth.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

Problem is that this organization won't just let him be a backup. There isn't much out there that you can get to really put your money on. That's just how most goalies are so if we keep Jones, we're giving him every chance to be worth his contract and he will likely fail every time. They need to remove that temptation from the team. If they're going to be bad the next two years, they should just rotate Korenar and Melnichuk while they build the rest of the team because they need elite talent and center depth.

If we can get rid of Jones for cheap, sure. I wouldn’t spend a significant asset to get rid of him. Have him play against the good teams like Colorado and Tampa so you’re young goalies don’t get crushed. I also think we should be shopping for a young goalie that needs protection from Seattle.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Man, everyone complains when we win and everyone complains when we lose

 

[DG93]

Man, everyone complains when we win and everyone complains when we lose

No complaints here, better draft pick is good...losing badly forces DW into actually picking a direction for this team and to make a real choice on Boughner (ie if he sticks with him, they might be tied together if shit hits the fan again next year).

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If we can get of Jones for cheap, sure. I wouldn’t spend a significant asset to get rid of him. Have him play against the good teams like Colorado and Tampa so you’re young goalies don’t get crushed. I also think we should be shopping for a young goalie that needs protection from Seattle.

If they're going to keep Jones, they should let Korenar or Melnichuk be there and get more experience. If they make a deal to get rid of Jones then yeah maybe you look to bring in another goalie to also help them along whether it's signing someone like Driedger or Brossoit or take a cap dump goalie with a year left to get another asset.

I'd like to see a lot of movement this offseason to get rid of players like Jones, Meier, and Vlasic at the minimum. I would move Burns, Couture, Kane, Hertl, and Labanc too. I'd be open to moving Karlsson but I can't see there being a good deal out there. I don't see it for most those guys but I'm willing to spend significant non-future assets to move most of these guys. The team needs a major overhaul and another stand pat sort of offseason isn't going to bring fans back to the tank.

 

[Coily]

Man, everyone complains when we win and everyone complains when we lose

It's called being a fan. /s

 

[CupfortheSharks]

If they're going to keep Jones, they should let Korenar or Melnichuk be there and get more experience. If they make a deal to get rid of Jones then yeah maybe you look to bring in another goalie to also help them along whether it's signing someone like Driedger or Brossoit or take a cap dump goalie with a year left to get another asset.

I'd like to see a lot of movement this offseason to get rid of players like Jones, Meier, and Vlasic at the minimum. I would move Burns, Couture, Kane, Hertl, and Labanc too. I'd be open to moving Karlsson but I can't see there being a good deal out there. I don't see it for most those guys but I'm willing to spend significant non-future assets to move most of these guys. The team needs a major overhaul and another stand pat sort of offseason isn't going to bring fans back to the tank.

I don’t think Korenar is our goalie of the future. He didn’t impress me last year in the AHL and I haven’t seen anything to change my mind this year. Is Melnichuk?

I would also like to see wholesale change with this team. Unfortunately, DW said he is going to try and compete next year so I fear he will stick with this core. The only hope I have is that last year at the deadline, he said the same thing and didn’t follow through in the off season.

 

[Cas]

Even with Vlasic at 30% retained ($2.1M) not sure if he's movable. $2.1M to open up that spot is probably worthwhile...

I'd retain up to 50% on Vlasic. Compared to a buyout, that costs the Sharks an extra $1,916,667 in 21-22 and 23-24, but saves money on 22-23, 24-25, and for six years thereafter.

I just don't know that anyone would bite.

What happens if a contract with money retained by another team is bought out?

 

[Juxtaposer]

I don’t think Korenar is our goalie of the future. He didn’t impress me last year in the AHL and I haven’t seen anything to change my mind this year. Is Melnichuk?

I would also like to see wholesale change with this team. Unfortunately, DW said he is going to try and compete next year so I fear he will stick with this core. The only hope I have is that last year at the deadline, he said the same thing and didn’t follow through in the off season.

The problem is that we don’t have a goalie of the future. It ain’t Korenar and it ain’t Melnichuk. If we had a clear heir apparent to Jones, then getting rid of Jones wouldn’t be so complicated.

Everyone loves to talk moving Jones, but no one has a plan further than “Melnichuk and pray”. I’m obviously not defending Jones, he’s trash, but people around here never address what we’re going to do once Jones is actually gone.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The problem is that we don’t have a goalie of the future. It ain’t Korenar and it ain’t Melnichuk. If we had a clear heir apparent to Jones, then getting rid of Jones wouldn’t be so complicated.

Everyone loves to talk moving Jones, but no one has a plan further than “Melnichuk and pray”. I’m obviously not defending Jones, he’s trash, but people around here never address what we’re going to do once Jones is actually gone.

There are trade and free agent options that can be utilized if we're not buying into our internal options. Just depends on what you want to accomplish. Grubauer, Ullmark, and Driedger are pretty solid options potentially on the free agent market. Adin Hill or Darcy Kuemper, Jake Allen, Gustavsson, and DeSmith are all likely trade options for one you could take a gamble on. Holtby and Koskinen could be traded for to put up with for an asset. There are lots of options. Just depends on what direction you want to go.

 

[Mattb124]

The problem is that we don’t have a goalie of the future. It ain’t Korenar and it ain’t Melnichuk. If we had a clear heir apparent to Jones, then getting rid of Jones wouldn’t be so complicated.

Everyone loves to talk moving Jones, but no one has a plan further than “Melnichuk and pray”. I’m obviously not defending Jones, he’s trash, but people around here never address what we’re going to do once Jones is actually gone.

When taxi squads are no longer a thing, I think there will be goalies available to replace Jones. Maybe not what we would hope for as "goalie of the future" material, but cheaper alternatives at a minimum.

 

[Dicdonya]

We can't have Jones around anymore. It's done. Nobody can play well around him because they don't believe he can make the saves.

Do people honestly still believe Merkley's going to be a top-4 dman?

I think you can retain on 3 players, which shouldn't be an issue for us since the only contracts that *have* to be reduced in order to trade them are Vlasic, Burns, Karlsson and Jones.

We don't need anyone to play well around Jones if we are rebuilding/tanking. Keep him around for a rebuild, and if we really really need to buy him out then we do so, and by that point any buyout will be much shorter. Plus he's shown this year that when he was not the starter any more, he might still be able to play well if hes not being leaned on as heavily as he has been the past couple weeks. So he could be a fine, albeit expensive, backup to any goalie we might be developing in the meantime.

Yes why wouldn't we still believe he could be a top 4 dman? Just because he isnt dominating the AHL in his rookie season as an undersized and flawed defensman, after having his development stunted by Covid, and then his rookie season in the AHL impacted by an injury in camp and then Covid jacking the schedule all up?

 

[OrrNumber4]

The problem is that we don’t have a goalie of the future. It ain’t Korenar and it ain’t Melnichuk. If we had a clear heir apparent to Jones, then getting rid of Jones wouldn’t be so complicated.

Everyone loves to talk moving Jones, but no one has a plan further than “Melnichuk and pray”. I’m obviously not defending Jones, he’s trash, but people around here never address what we’re going to do once Jones is actually gone.

At some point, it's worth moving on just for the sake of moving on. Jones has not played to expectations for nearly 3 seasons now...there must be accountability. Certainly, it's a tough nut to crack since he's still the best goaltender on the roster; I'd be more tolerant of playing him if the Sharks at least waived him to "signal" their acknowledgment of his failures.

 

[magic school bus]

We don't need anyone to play well around Jones if we are rebuilding/tanking. Keep him around for a rebuild, and if we really really need to buy him out then we do so, and by that point any buyout will be much shorter. Plus he's shown this year that when he was not the starter any more, he might still be able to play well if hes not being leaned on as heavily as he has been the past couple weeks. So he could be a fine, albeit expensive, backup to any goalie we might be developing in the meantime.

Yes why wouldn't we still believe he could be a top 4 dman? Just because he isnt dominating the AHL in his rookie season as an undersized and flawed defensman, after having his development stunted by Covid, and then his rookie season in the AHL impacted by an injury in camp and then Covid jacking the schedule all up?

I don't have a whole lot of faith they'll use Jones as a backup. Once he puts together a few good games he'll go right back to being the workhorse.

Could Merkley make it as a top-4 D? Sure, but I'm not penciling him into any future lineups. If he makes it, I'll consider it a pleasant surprise.

 

[Dicdonya]

I don't have a whole lot of faith they'll use Jones as a backup. Once he puts together a few good games he'll go right back to being the workhorse.

Could Merkley make it as a top-4 D? Sure, but I'm not penciling him into any future lineups. If he makes it, I'll consider it a pleasant surprise.

I agree they would revert to him being a workhorse if A) a coach is not specifically told not to do that by DW/New GM B) we do not actually have a goalie better than him.

This year for example, Dubnyk was not better than Jones, straight up wasnt. Sure maybe some fans liked how he looked in net better, or thought the team played better in front of him or something, but statistically he was not better. So while I agree with your concern, I also think that this team has not had anyone clearly superior to Jones yet to make him sitting actually feasible in the long term.

As for the bolded, why did you ask the original question if even you think its possible he could be a top 4 dman? Did you mean to ask if anyone thought he would be one by next season or something?