Speculation: 2020-2021 Sharks Roster Discussion Part 8

[TheBeard]

It’s nice that the Sharks had time to take their team photo.

 

[fasterthanlight]

Wright is pretty good. I wonder if we could spin a potential top ten pick in 2022 for hertl, one for meier, one for couture?

 

[DG93]

Wright is pretty good. I wonder if we could spin a potential top ten pick in 2022 for hertl, one for meier, one for couture?

I think Hertl can definitely land you a 1st round pick (and more) since he's still pretty damn good and is on an expiring deal. I highly doubt Couture would without us taking significant salary back...Meier is interesting. His value is pretty low right now, so I don't think it's the right time to trade him, but he might get you even now because he's a "big power forward with a good shot" signed for another 2 years and is only 24 years old.

 

[Anomie2029]

I think Hertl can definitely land you a 1st round pick (and more) since he's still pretty damn good and is on an expiring deal. I highly doubt Couture would without us taking significant salary back...Meier is interesting. His value is pretty low right now, so I don't think it's the right time to trade him, but he might get you even now because he's a "big power forward with a good shot" signed for another 2 years and is only 24 years old.

The issue with all of them is there are big red flags:

• Hertl - injury history is not good, already fairly slow, won't get better.
• Couture - Long-term contract, tends to miss about 10-15 games per season, not strong in the face off, doesn't drive play.
• Meier - $10M qualifying offer.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Couture is one of the best playoff performers in his generation. Come the second season, he's a bonafide elite #1 center.

Really seems like a buy-low "change of scenery" trade could be a steal. Is Kakko/Chytil available?

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

I would trade Meier for a mid to high 1st rd pick. Devils have 2 picks and might be a compatible trade partner.

 

[STL Shark]

The issue with all of them is there are big red flags:

• Hertl - injury history is not good, already fairly slow, won't get better.
• Couture - Long-term contract, tends to miss about 10-15 games per season, not strong in the face off, doesn't drive play.
• Meier - $10M qualifying offer.

The Meier QO is really one of the dumbest talking points I see when talking Sharks hockey. People over on CapFriendly love to make a huge deal out of it when it is entirely a non-factor. If people would just view him as an expiring UFA at the end of the deal (of which there are many traded all the time) this would be a lot smoother. He is never going to get $10 million from anyone. He is going to be signed long-term before the QO is due or he is going to be a UFA. If this were the final year of this deal, then I guess maybe you have a point as he's a rental, but anyone trading for Meier this offseason is getting a guy with 2 more full seasons under contract at age 25 and 26. The QO is not playing a role to any competent GM in a deal for Meier.

 

[STL Shark]

I would trade Meier for a mid to high 1st rd pick. Devils have 2 picks and might be a compatible trade partner.

Why would you trade Meier for a lesser asset than was used to acquire him when you don't have to? That doesn't make sense to me. If you could get a mid-1st plus a high end prospect or NJD's 2nd and a mid level prospect in the deal, then sure. But selling low for a mid-round 1st on a 24 year old (going to be 25 around opening night) that you drafted in the top 10 seems like poor asset management to me when he's having his first really down year since establishing himself in the league. I think there needs to be an emphasis on him playing more physically and laying the body more, but I would not sell him unless you got a good haul for him.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

The Meier QO is really one of the dumbest talking points I see when talking Sharks hockey. People over on CapFriendly love to make a huge deal out of it when it is entirely a non-factor. If people would just view him as an expiring UFA at the end of the deal (of which there are many traded all the time) this would be a lot smoother. He is never going to get $10 million from anyone. He is going to be signed long-term before the QO is due or he is going to be a UFA. If this were the final year of this deal, then I guess maybe you have a point as he's a rental, but anyone trading for Meier this offseason is getting a guy with 2 more full seasons under contract at age 25 and 26. The QO is not playing a role to any competent GM in a deal for Meier.

Good point. People would call it a better contract if he just hit UFA status at the end of it lol

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The issue with all of them is there are big red flags:

• Hertl - injury history is not good, already fairly slow, won't get better.
• Couture - Long-term contract, tends to miss about 10-15 games per season, not strong in the face off, doesn't drive play.
• Meier - $10M qualifying offer.

The biggest issues for Hertl and Couture will be the three team trade list. I don't think either of them will return a 1st round pick in a trade. When that's the leverage you're dealing with, chances are you will return a decent set of future assets but that the team you're trading with will probably have the leverage to avoid paying a 1st round pick. I have no clue what Hertl or Couture's three team list would be given their current statuses but I would still look to move them both if the opportunity arises. I just don't see DW going that way when they mean a lot to him. Meier seems like the guy that DW intended on moving before the contract was up or re-signing long term and I hope it's the former. Meier I can see returning a 1st round pick even with the QO because he's got no trade restrictions. Teams going for it are going to see a big speedy winger that has the sort of game that can succeed in the playoffs as he's shown before.

 

[one2gamble]

I still cant figure out what kind of GM would give a player that kind of leverage. I can see a list of 3-5 teams you DONT want to play for being something I would ok. I would pretty much laugh at you telling me that you will only play for 3 teams.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I still cant figure out what kind of GM would give a player that kind of leverage. I can see a list of 3-5 teams you DONT want to play for being something I would ok. I would pretty much laugh at you telling me that you will only play for 3 teams.

Because this was likely the compromise from the players wanting a full no-move through expansion times.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

Why would you trade Meier for a lesser asset than was used to acquire him when you don't have to? That doesn't make sense to me. If you could get a mid-1st plus a high end prospect or NJD's 2nd and a mid level prospect in the deal, then sure. But selling low for a mid-round 1st on a 24 year old (going to be 25 around opening night) that you drafted in the top 10 seems like poor asset management to me when he's having his first really down year since establishing himself in the league. I think there needs to be an emphasis on him playing more physically and laying the body more, but I would not sell him unless you got a good haul for him.

Well, I mean based on mock drafts I've looked at they are projected to get a high lottery pick, thats why I said a mid to high first... They could link a fellow young Swiss player with their current captain which might be enticing. We could potentially have 2 top 10 picks in that perfect scenario. I get your point though and it is valid.

 

[themelkman]

Good point. People would call it a better contract if he just hit UFA status at the end of it lol

Honestly if he doesnt get it together, I see the sharks either trading or letting him go without a QO. There has to be a point where 10mil for a year just isnt worth it.

 

[one2gamble]

Because this was likely the compromise from the players wanting a full no-move through expansion times.

Thats a terrible compromise

 

[Gunnin54]

I hate Meier so trade his ass it is what I command

 

[STL Shark]

Honestly if he doesnt get it together, I see the sharks either trading or letting him go without a QO. There has to be a point where 10mil for a year just isnt worth it.

Even if he gets it together, that is going to be the case. No one under any circumstance is paying him $10 million. He himself does not even want the $10 million QO. That's not why he had it structured that way. He did it knowing no one is going to pay that so he can now get to open market free agency at age 26 and a full year sooner. Which goes back to why the fact that the $10 million is ever even brought up in the first place in these discussions is so nonsensical.

 

[hohosaregood]

The Meier QO is really one of the dumbest talking points I see when talking Sharks hockey. People over on CapFriendly love to make a huge deal out of it when it is entirely a non-factor. If people would just view him as an expiring UFA at the end of the deal (of which there are many traded all the time) this would be a lot smoother. He is never going to get $10 million from anyone. He is going to be signed long-term before the QO is due or he is going to be a UFA. If this were the final year of this deal, then I guess maybe you have a point as he's a rental, but anyone trading for Meier this offseason is getting a guy with 2 more full seasons under contract at age 25 and 26. The QO is not playing a role to any competent GM in a deal for Meier.

Yea I always figured it to be a win-win kind of thing for the Sharks. If he's underperforming, you let him go. If he's worth it, then you got a f***ing all star. And if he's doing okay and he wants to stay, they'll negotiate a new deal before we get to that point.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Thats a terrible compromise

I agree especially since none of these contracts have any sort of expansion of teams as it gets later in the deal. If they weren't willing to budge on that, these players should've been let go instead of giving in.

 

[DG93]

The biggest issues for Hertl and Couture will be the three team trade list. I don't think either of them will return a 1st round pick in a trade. When that's the leverage you're dealing with, chances are you will return a decent set of future assets but that the team you're trading with will probably have the leverage to avoid paying a 1st round pick. I have no clue what Hertl or Couture's three team list would be given their current statuses but I would still look to move them both if the opportunity arises. I just don't see DW going that way when they mean a lot to him. Meier seems like the guy that DW intended on moving before the contract was up or re-signing long term and I hope it's the former. Meier I can see returning a 1st round pick even with the QO because he's got no trade restrictions. Teams going for it are going to see a big speedy winger that has the sort of game that can succeed in the playoffs as he's shown before.

A lot of good points here...I'd personally keep Hertl because he'll still be roughly 30 (hopefully lol) when the team is ready to contend again and would be a good veteran to have. Also, his value is lower after all those big injuries (and somewhat of a down season this year) like you said so it might be cheaper to extend him actually. Couture's contract is an issue, but if we decide to rebuild and he wants out, not much you can do there, unfortunately I'd think.

 

[Cas]

Is $8/8 a reasonable expectation for Hertl, given that he's actually pretty comparable to Couture (essentially a 60-65 point center for the three years prior to his extension being signed, plus some significant injury concerns), but will be a year younger? Covid screws with things, of course.

 

[Jargon]

I’d keep...

Hertl, Couture, Donato, Labanc (maybe), Ferraro, Kane, Karlsson, Knyzhov and possibly Burns (unless he can get us a big return).

The rest we trade for picks/prospects.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Is $8/8 a reasonable expectation for Hertl, given that he's actually pretty comparable to Couture (essentially a 60-65 point center for the three years prior to his extension being signed, plus some significant injury concerns), but will be a year younger? Covid screws with things, of course.

If we're giving him a 3 team trade list, it could be but we're also in a flat cap time with uncertainty moving forward. That could play a part in lowering his value because it seems to do that to UFA's but we'll see.

 

[themelkman]

Is $8/8 a reasonable expectation for Hertl, given that he's actually pretty comparable to Couture (essentially a 60-65 point center for the three years prior to his extension being signed, plus some significant injury concerns), but will be a year younger? Covid screws with things, of course.

Seems fair to me. Its risky with injuries so id hope Doug could get less but open market he can get that

 

[seroes]

Is $8/8 a reasonable expectation for Hertl, given that he's actually pretty comparable to Couture (essentially a 60-65 point center for the three years prior to his extension being signed, plus some significant injury concerns), but will be a year younger? Covid screws with things, of course.

An 8 year contract for Hertl terrifies me. His injuries could cause that to backfire in a heartbeat. I would not want to go beyond 5