Speculation: 2020-2021 Sharks Roster Discussion Part 7

[Pinkfloyd]

So basically we lose a top 6/line winger that is only 24 that has scored 0.6 PPG while being good defensively and playing a power forward game to clear 6M of cap space on a team that isn’t going anywhere and has very little in the system (nothing outside of Melnichuk) in goal. Honestly I’d rather keep Jones and get a few more high picks until Melnichuk is ready.

Yeah, if you're trading Meier to dump Jones, you're not seriously competing for a few years anyway and might as well either ride Jones out as a backup or just buy him out.

Considering the winger depth in this organization, I vehemently disagree with this sentiment.

 

[Dicdonya]

After tonights game it is clear DW needs to do something right now.

This team is just shooting itself in the foot by getting enough points to stay near the wild card spot, while clearly being a non playoff team.

If this team is just a goalie away from being competent he needs to get that goalie now, so there is still time to figure out if that is really the biggest thing hurting this team.

If he doesnt think we are a goalie away then its time to start selling so we dont screw our draft position over by being too good to live in the basement.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

DW talking to Jones and Dubnyk

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I am sure someone would take Cooch, just not sure what sort of return we would get.

He is still playing well, and his playoff acumen is a big selling point. Also outside of his mouth, has no serious injury history, and his playstyle is not something that should decline too sharply with age. Only issue is his NTC and if he would be willing to open that up for DW to get a better set of options.

You forgot that Coutures bones are made of glass. At least 2 broken ankles/legs and I think a broken hand at one point?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

DW talking to Jones and Dubnyk

Best character Tom has ever played.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Yeah, if you're trading Meier to dump Jones, you're not seriously competing for a few years anyway and might as well either ride Jones out as a backup or just buy him out.

A GM that does that is clearly out of his mind. That's gross mismanagement and grounds for getting fired.

 

[Groo]

You forgot that Coutures bones are made of glass. At least 2 broken ankles/legs and I think a broken hand at one point?

The guy blocks/stops/eats a lot of pucks

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

The guy blocks/stops/eats a lot of pucks

He's playing out of his mind this season though. If this was 82 games he probably gets 40+ the way he's playing. Now is truly the time to sell high with him if they think they might do even a low key rebuild.

Looking at their scoring rates, Kane and Couture are on a nearly ppg pace. Even Meier is on a 58 point pace (82 games). Hertl around 50 point pace. If Hertl can come back and start playing the way most of us think he should they may very well start to outscore their goaltending problems again. EK65 is starting to heat up to offensively. DW needs to do something about the goaltending with this team if he truly want them in the playoffs which I believe he does. Hopefully Dubnyk plays well tomorrow.

 

[Levie]

After tonights game it is clear DW needs to do something right now.

This team is just shooting itself in the foot by getting enough points to stay near the wild card spot, while clearly being a non playoff team.

If this team is just a goalie away from being competent he needs to get that goalie now, so there is still time to figure out if that is really the biggest thing hurting this team.

If he doesnt think we are a goalie away then its time to start selling so we dont screw our draft position over by being too good to live in the basement.

I stand by my earlier comments this year that all their shootout wins are the worst possible outcome. The OT losses are almost as bad.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

Just not impressed with Meier.

The overtime period tonight had him losing the puck twice and not getting his shot off (poked away twice). And he had an opportunity to hit Reilly Smith and dislodge the puck but he opted not to. I mean, come on, you gotta get the puck back. Can't just dink around the ice hoping they lose the puck on their own. His effort level and IQ are so bad.

And I remember as a prospect his best quality was said to be an NHL-ready shot. Now four years in we see he has a decent shot only if he has plenty of time to take it. He also lacks deception. He has a good shot but he cannot consistently get it off.

The whole package is just not there. There's always something glaringly missing in his game every time he steps on the ice. Power forward and good defensively my ass.

 

[Groo]

He's playing out of his mind this season though. If this was 82 games he probably gets 40+ the way he's playing. Now is truly the time to sell him with him if they think they might do even a low key rebuild.

Looking at their scoring rates, Kane and Couture are on a nearly ppg pace. Even Meier is on a 58 point pace (82 games). Hertl around 50 point pace. If Hertl can come back and start playing the way most of us think he should they may very well start to outscore their goaltending problems again. EK65 is starting to heat up to offensively. DW needs to do something about the goaltending with this team if he truly want them in the playoffs which I believe he does. Hopefully Dubnyk plays well tomorrow.

So are we selling or buying.
I don't won't Wilson doing anything but being shown the door.
I also believe he wants to win

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

So are we selling or buying.
I don't won't Wilson doing anything but being shown the door.
I also believe he wants to win

I think they will be buying and selling if the remain close. He's always tried to reward the team when the effort is there. Can't fault the skaters effort this season other than maybe Vlasic and even that may be just his body not being capable anymore. But I think it'll be like that season they sold some slow guys but still brought someone back. I think they keep Patty for the record, sell Dubnyk, Sorenson if they can and maybe Nieto. I could see them keeping Dubnyk too though if he takes over as the clear starter.

I don't know if DW is on the hot seat at all but if he cleans up this mess in the offseason he'll never have to worry about getting fired. Probably just hand off the job to his son in a few years like a monarchy.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Just not impressed with Meier.

The overtime period tonight had him losing the puck twice and not getting his shot off (poked away twice). And he had an opportunity to hit Reilly Smith and dislodge the puck but he opted not to. I mean, come on, you gotta get the puck back. Can't just dink around the ice hoping they lose the puck on their own. His effort level and IQ are so bad.

And I remember as a prospect his best quality was said to be an NHL-ready shot. Now four years in we see he has a decent shot only if he has plenty of time to take it. He also lacks deception. He has a good shot but he cannot consistently get it off.

The whole package is just not there. There's always something glaringly missing in his game every time he steps on the ice. Power forward and good defensively my ass.

Agreed. I've seen Meier be incredibly deceptive with his shots, but his hockey IQ isn't great. He is too quick to shoot, killing plays. Plus he's not using his size as much, and it looks like he will never be a good F1. He's not even good defensively.

 

[Shark Finn]

When will this team - or rather the management - finally realize Jones is done?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Agreed. I've seen Meier be incredibly deceptive with his shots, but his hockey IQ isn't great. He is too quick to shoot, killing plays. Plus he's not using his size as much, and it looks like he will never be a good F1. He's not even good defensively.

And yet he's currently scoring at a 58 point pace with a struggling Hertl and Gamby as his centers this season.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

When will this team - or rather the management - finally realize Jones is done?

Interesting take.

My view is they pretty much know but they don't have very much choice but to hope he turns it around given his contract. Subtle difference.

 

[tiburon12]

And yet he's currently scoring at a 58 point pace with a struggling Hertl and Gamby as his centers this season.

more than half of those points have been in the last 5 games.

Like @OrrNumber4 noted, plays are definitely dying on his stick. Maybe he shouldn't be the primary puck carrier on his line

Tonight, that power move to the net was a very low% play, and in overtime that's not a good use of puck possession. He needs to know that.

 

[Barrie22]

more than half of those points have been in the last 5 games.

Like @OrrNumber4 noted, plays are definitely dying on his stick. Maybe he shouldn't be the primary puck carrier on his line

Tonight, that power move to the net was a very low% play, and in overtime that's not a good use of puck possession. He needs to know that.

So the last 5 games don't count on the season? I fail to see the point of the half the points came in the past 5 games.

It is what players in his point range does is they go multiple games stretches of barely anything and then score in bunches. This has been the way since forever in the nhl.

I am starting to think that most of the hate towards meier is due to people having extreme expectations for what he should be. Expectations should be that he is a 30-35 type guy at best and normal is probably in the range of 25-30 type player.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

more than half of those points have been in the last 5 games.

Like @OrrNumber4 noted, plays are definitely dying on his stick. Maybe he shouldn't be the primary puck carrier on his line

Tonight, that power move to the net was a very low% play, and in overtime that's not a good use of puck possession. He needs to know that.

And that matters why? He started slow last season too. He's been consistent with his effort for at least 2 weeks now. He's found his game for the most part and he's producing. Give him some actual scoring talent to play with and I bet he's piling up points again. He's basically carrying a 3rd line winger and a 3/4th line center as a 2nd line. He's not perfect but he gets way to much criticism from this place especially now that he's playing hard. The opposing teams know he's the only real threat on his line and can key on him. Young guys always struggle with consistency. He's no different. I detailed previously how many years it took Patty to put up point totals like he already has. That being said, I'm fine if they move him for Eichel but the kid needs help on his line more than he needs criticism at this point.

So the last 5 games don't count on the season? I fail to see the point of the half the points came in the past 5 games.

It is what players in his point range does is they go multiple games stretches of barely anything and then score in bunches. This has been the way since forever in the nhl.

I am starting to think that most of the hate towards meier is due to people having extreme expectations for what he should be. Expectations should be that he is a 30-35 type guy at best and normal is probably in the range of 25-30 type player.

Agree 100%. a 58 point pace for a guy who just turned 24 5 months ago is more than ok for the time being. Let's see what he looks like if Hertl can get his ass in gear too.

 

[tiburon12]

So the last 5 games don't count on the season? I fail to see the point of the half the points came in the past 5 games.

It is what players in his point range does is they go multiple games stretches of barely anything and then score in bunches. This has been the way since forever in the nhl.

I am starting to think that most of the hate towards meier is due to people having extreme expectations for what he should be. Expectations should be that he is a 30-35 type guy at best and normal is probably in the range of 25-30 type player.

And that matters why? He started slow last season too. He's been consistent with his effort for at least 2 weeks now. He's found his game for the most part and he's producing. Give him some actual scoring talent to play with and I bet he's piling up points again. He's basically carrying a 3rd line winger and a 3/4th line center as a 2nd line. He's not perfect but he gets way to much criticism from this place especially now that he's playing hard. The opposing teams know he's the only real threat on his line and can key on him. Young guys always struggle with consistency. He's no different. I detailed previously how many years it took Patty to put up point totals like he already has. That being said, I'm fine if they move him for Eichel but the kid needs help on his line more than he needs criticism at this point.

Agree 100%. a 58 point pace for a guy who just turned 24 5 months ago is more than ok for the time being. Let's see what he looks like if Hertl can get his ass in gear too.

I'm not a Meier hater at all. I just was pointing out that saying he is playing at a 58pt pace doesnt paint the full picture when 5 games ago he was playing on a 36pt pace.

With a $6m cap hit he should be 30+goals and/or 60+pts and an impact player most nights. He has been the latter, but not so much the former (except of late, which is only 1/4 of the games this year). My criticism of him is that maybe the role he is in is not that best one for his ability, because now it's not working as it should. Even with underperforming centers, he should be making smarter decisions with the puck.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I'm not a Meier hater at all. I just was pointing out that saying he is playing at a 58pt pace doesnt paint the full picture when 5 games ago he was playing on a 36pt pace.

With a $6m cap hit he should be 30+goals and/or 60+pts and an impact player most nights. He has been the latter, but not so much the former (except of late, which is only 1/4 of the games this year). My criticism of him is that maybe the role he is in is not that best one for his ability, because now it's not working as it should. Even with underperforming centers, he should be making smarter decisions with the puck.

6 mil doesn't buy what it used to. Most people are fine with Kane getting 25-30 and 50 to 60 points and he's making 7mil. 25 goals and 50 points should be fine for a 24 year old making 6mil. He's exceeding that. Yeah he was struggling but no one should have thought that was his new normal. Ina. regular season this is just the 1/4 mark. Not that big a of deal to struggle out the gate and scorers are streaky by nature unless they're elite. Just too much made of this IMO. If he goes cold again for another 10 games maybe worry more. But to me it looks like he's playing hard and doing what he can with line mates who probably shouldn't be playing as high in the lineup as they are.

 

[Groo]

I think they will be buying and selling if the remain close. He's always tried to reward the team when the effort is there. Can't fault the skaters effort this season other than maybe Vlasic and even that may be just his body not being capable anymore. But I think it'll be like that season they sold some slow guys but still brought someone back. I think they keep Patty for the record, sell Dubnyk, Sorenson if they can and maybe Nieto. I could see them keeping Dubnyk too though if he takes over as the clear starter.

I don't know if DW is on the hot seat at all but if he cleans up this mess in the offseason he'll never have to worry about getting fired. Probably just hand off the job to his son in a few years like a monarchy.

We're doomed

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

I have a feeling the coaching staff and management know our goal tending situation is a mess. They are supportive as possible to a guy like Jones because A) guy took us to a Stanley cup and they want to let him down as easy as possible B) don't throw a guy completely under the bus while you're other eggs have yet to hatch. Face it, ugly or not, we're most likely riding these #31 and 40 wheels til the wheels blow out and the rims send sparks flying.

 

[thrillermiller89]

Really loving the chemistry at forward for some of these guys.

Love seeing Burns and EK65 heating up and controlling the game.

but... it has to be demoralizing for the locker room to know that they have to play a beyond-perfect game every night in order to make up for the woeful goaltending mess just to have a shot at a dub.

 

[Jargon]

Really loving the chemistry at forward for some of these guys.

Love seeing Burns and EK65 heating up and controlling the game.

but... it has to be demoralizing for the locker room to know that they have to play a beyond-perfect game every night in order to make up for the woeful goaltending mess just to have a shot at a dub.

yeah, I had the same thought — work super hard to catch up and then have the goalies blow it over and over again is bruuuutal. I mean that was a poor play by Burns but still.