Speculation: 2020-2021 Sharks Roster Discussion Part 7

[hotcabbagesoup]

Except not really. The guys stick wasn't actually tied up because he moved it where he wanted right away despite merkleys stick. Reality is that if the puck went to Merkley's guy he would have likely got a hooking penalty. Also, why wasn't Merkley aware of the 2nd player coming in who received the pass. Seems like that all started with a bad defensive breakdown further up the ice.

It looks like he has his stick under the other guy's stick and he relaxes after he sees that his guy won't get the puck. It is probably a hooking call in the NHL like you said. And also real NHLers may stop at the crease instead of just flying by like that, so he needs to get inside position. But the good is that Merkley tries to skate the puck out.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

It looks like he has his stick under the other guy's stick and he relaxes after he sees that his guy won't get the puck. It is probably a hooking call in the NHL like you said. And also real NHLers may stop at the crease instead of just flying by like that, so he needs to get inside position. But the good is that Merkley tries to skate the puck out.

With the puck on his stick is the the only time he looks like an NHLer so far.

 

[seroes]

With the puck on his stick is the the only time he looks like an NHLer so far.

That's never been his issue. If he can even become passable away from the puck he can become something great. Until then he needs to work on his game down in the AHL.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Merkley was completely out of position and had his stick in the guys waist. Anytime a defenseman has an opposing player between them and the goalie, they are out of position. There's a reason he's not getting called up.

No, he is stick lifting his man. Just because the guy is fighting the stick lift doesnt mean he isnt tied up. He was slightly behind his guy but, unless you actually do, we dont know how that play developed, it was basically a 3 on 1 down low so it was most likely a turnover. Unless he was the one who did it, cant fault him for being out of position after a bad turnover

 

[Sysreq]

Merkley played that right. Just like in a 2v1, you take the passing option and let the goalie 1v1 the guy with the puck. The guy with the puck has a lower probability of scoring than the guy going after the rebound. Merkley controlled the net front, gained possession and caught the offense flat footed on the way out of the zone. That can easily lead to a 3v2 if your wings read the play right.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Merkley played that right. Just like in a 2v1, you take the passing option and let the goalie 1v1 the guy with the puck. The guy with the puck has a lower probability of scoring than the guy going after the rebound. Merkley controlled the net front, gained possession and caught the offense flat footed on the way out of the zone. That can easily lead to a 3v2 if your wings read the play right.

Except that's not what happened. Merkley was taking the guy who not only didn't have the puck, but wasn't the guy receiving the pass. He had the 3rd guy in which means he was already out of position from the beginning of the rush. He only picked up a rebound after an insane save by his goalie. He didn't control the net front, he got lucky.

No, he is stick lifting his man. Just because the guy is fighting the stick lift doesnt mean he isnt tied up. He was slightly behind his guy but, unless you actually do, we dont know how that play developed, it was basically a 3 on 1 down low so it was most likely a turnover. Unless he was the one who did it, cant fault him for being out of position after a bad turnover

Yeah you can fault him for being out of position. He's not "slightly behind" his guy, he's on the complete wrong side of his man for proper defensive coverage. The fact he's on the boards side of his man there says he's horribly out of position. It was shit show that he got incredibly lucky on. Like I said, there's a reason he's not getting called up. This is probably only one of many examples why. That turnover to lose the game in OT is another.

 

[Lebanezer]

Before we just unequivocally throw Merkley under the bus, it would be good to get a view of the entire play and everything that lead up to it, which unfortunately isn't available in that tweet. Also, why are we only analyzing Merkley, what the hell was Handemark doing there? He just shows up at the end and he's covering no one, and he's the center.

 

[hohosaregood]

Just scoreboard watching but the shot totals have largely been far and away in the Cuda's favor in the last couple of games. The kids are doing something right down there.

 

[sharski]

I don't think he makes it 3 more years with the Sharks.

DW: hold my contract extension

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Just scoreboard watching but the shot totals have largely been far and away in the Cuda's favor in the last couple of games. The kids are doing something right down there.

They should be playing the exact same system the Sharks are. Sharks have outshot a bunch of teams lately too.

 

[tealzamboni]

Before we just unequivocally throw Merkley under the bus, it would be good to get a view of the entire play and everything that lead up to it, which unfortunately isn't available in that tweet. Also, why are we only analyzing Merkley, what the hell was Handemark doing there? He just shows up at the end and he's covering no one, and he's the center.

Sommer's teaching them how the big club does it.

 

[Hobocop]

Before we just unequivocally throw Merkley under the bus, it would be good to get a view of the entire play and everything that lead up to it, which unfortunately isn't available in that tweet. Also, why are we only analyzing Merkley, what the hell was Handemark doing there? He just shows up at the end and he's covering no one, and he's the center.

It's a weird clip to try to judge without context like everyone's doing.

Handemark was covering #14 along the boards, but released him to try to take the puck carrier (who had just gotten behind Merkley), at which point 14 just cut straight in undefended behind him. That's how that shot came about.

Confusion came about because three Gulls came into the zone at pretty much the same spot, on the right side.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

It's a weird clip to try to judge without context like everyone's doing.

Handemark was covering #14 along the boards, but released him to try to take the puck carrier (who had just gotten behind Merkley), at which point 14 just cut straight in undefended behind him. That's how that shot came about.

Confusion came about because three Gulls came into the zone at pretty much the same spot, on the right side.

I have the AHL package. I've now watched the whole play from the Barracuda broadcast about 10-15 times. Happens at 4:44 of the 2nd period, Mar 5th game. Merkley plays the whole thing wrong from the beginning. I wouldn't let him play as a defenseman on my rec league team. No urgency, no effort unless he has the puck on his stick and frankly even then he doesn't seem like he's in a hurry to do anything unless it's a d-d pass in the offensive zone. Don't get me wrong he has great vision and great puck skill but he lacks any sort of drive or urgency to play an NHL style game.

About the play.. Gulls try to get puck into cuda zone on their left side, Merk & Handy there outnumbered 2-3 scrum at boards. 2nd Cuda D back between high face-off circles. Handy comes up with it briefly while skating back down wall in a battle but then loses it to board side forechecker. While this happens, Merk just standing nearby with 2 gulls and lets both gulls just skate away from him up at blue line. Immediately out of position on a lazy lack of awareness play. Guy who stole puck from Handy passes to the guy Merk is now try to catch from behind, Merk tries to hook him from behind. Should be a penalty, and he passes to wide rightsize player. So merk didn't have him tied up at all, guy made a pass while being hooked. This is now a 3 on 1 facing the remaining coda D with both Merk and handy trailing their guys back to the net. The wide right side player with puck then passes cross crease to the gull who beat Handy back. Handy got beat too but in the scrum he was trying to play Merks guy and his one briefly 2 on 1 and got turned around. all this could have been avoided if Merk did his job at the outset. He was lazy and put himself on the wrong side of the play defensively. He has absolutely no awareness in the defensive zone from what I've seen so far. If someone gets by him he just gives up... every. single. time. Like I said, with his effort and awareness I wouldn't let him play D on a rec league team. Unless they're moving him to wing, I'm more than fine with them trading him for someone who might actually be an effective NHLer. I don't know how this kid makes the NHL next season or even anytime after that playing this lazy.

 

[Hobocop]

I have the AHL package. I've now watched the whole play from the Barracuda broadcast about 10-15 times. Happens at 4:44 of the 2nd period, Mar 5th game. Merkley plays the whole thing wrong from the beginning. I wouldn't let him play as a defenseman on my rec league team. No urgency, no effort unless he has the puck on his stick and frankly even then he doesn't seem like he's in a hurry to do anything unless it's a d-d pass in the offensive zone. Don't get me wrong he has great vision and great puck skill but he lacks any sort of drive or urgency to play an NHL style game.

Yeah, I watched it a few times too because I remembered this breakdown live and looked it up, I was more about trying to explain what Handemark was doing because of the post I was replying to.

If you're going to be watching the AHL games, Merkley's typically a little better than he was Saturday night, but still comes across as not having the urgency you'd want him to have. Especially when he gets caught out of position. Early on I got the feeling he wasn't nearly as bad as his reputation was making him out to be, but lately there's way too many instances of "What was Merkley doing on that play?"

 

[Pinkfloyd]

How does Meier and [email protected] mil for Byron, Chiarot, and Tatar as a base deal sound to all of y'all? I like being free of the cap space personally but I realize giving up Meier to get rid of Vlasic for basically cap dumps is going to rub some folks the wrong way. lol

 

[Pavelski2112]

How does Meier and [email protected] mil for Byron, Chiarot, and Tatar as a base deal sound to all of y'all? I like being free of the cap space personally but I realize giving up Meier to get rid of Vlasic for basically cap dumps is going to rub some folks the wrong way. lol

Chiarot is terrible but he makes less money. Byron is underrated and Tatar is fine as a middle 6er. I'd probably do it but I doubt MTL would.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

How does Meier and [email protected] mil for Byron, Chiarot, and Tatar as a base deal sound to all of y'all? I like being free of the cap space personally but I realize giving up Meier to get rid of Vlasic for basically cap dumps is going to rub some folks the wrong way. lol

Do you think we can become a contender to win it all for the next few years after that trade? I don’t. So, I wouldn’t do it. If we are trading Meier, I would prefer a package of picks and prospects that can help us down the road when we are ready to contend.

 

[Gecklund]

How does Meier and [email protected] mil for Byron, Chiarot, and Tatar as a base deal sound to all of y'all? I like being free of the cap space personally but I realize giving up Meier to get rid of Vlasic for basically cap dumps is going to rub some folks the wrong way. lol

Awful. I wouldn’t retain on Vlasic for that. Honestly I wouldn’t move Vlasic alone for that. Tatar is a rental, Byron is garbage and an injury risk, Chiarot is no better than any of our LD and wouldn’t crack our lineup.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Yeah, I watched it a few times too because I remembered this breakdown live and looked it up, I was more about trying to explain what Handemark was doing because of the post I was replying to.

If you're going to be watching the AHL games, Merkley's typically a little better than he was Saturday night, but still comes across as not having the urgency you'd want him to have. Especially when he gets caught out of position. Early on I got the feeling he wasn't nearly as bad as his reputation was making him out to be, but lately there's way too many instances of "What was Merkley doing on that play?"

Sorry for the long winded detail in previous, was meant more as a contribution to the conversation than a direct reply to your comment. Yeah, now watched the big win and the most recent OT loss and like what some of the players are doing. They skate hard but way too much hero hockey. Can't play that way in the NHL. Maybe they're coached to always shoot instead of trying to make plays to take advantage of out numbered situations? I dunno, going to be interesting to see how they progress now.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Chiarot is terrible but he makes less money. Byron is underrated and Tatar is fine as a middle 6er. I'd probably do it but I doubt MTL would.

I think as a basis for a deal, it is acceptable. I simply think that regardless of whether we're trying to rebuild or trying to contend, this is the type of deal the Sharks need to make before next season starts. Rebuilding version of the Sharks needs to move at least one defenseman, especially one providing no value in any sort of way, and also move a winger where the team has an abundance of valuable players.

Do you think we can become a contender to win it all for the next few years after that trade? I don’t. So, I wouldn’t do it. If we are trading Meier, I would prefer a package of picks and prospects that can help us down the road when we are ready to contend.

Not with this trade alone but it opens up valuable cap space to address glaring roster issues. The Sharks need a legitimate 3C, which could be Bordeleau, but also one that makes it easier to shift Couture to the wing. I get that this isn't a typical rebuild maneuver but I don't believe the team needs a full-on rebuild. Even if it did, you can't wait to open up cap space. If they land an elite player in the 2022 draft, you have a three year window from there to truly get the most out of that deal. You can't wait to deal with bad contracts until then. You have to make deals where you can to prepare for that potential. I do understand wanting to trade Meier for a full value futures based package. I just don't think this team is that far off but it does take a few moves to get there.

Awful. I wouldn’t retain on Vlasic for that. Honestly I wouldn’t move Vlasic alone for that. Tatar is a rental, Byron is garbage and an injury risk, Chiarot is no better than any of our LD and wouldn’t crack our lineup.

Why wouldn't you move Vlasic alone for that? Tatar gets flipped at the deadline. Chiarot is off the books after next season if he isn't chosen in the expansion draft. Byron has two years after this and is a substantially better buyout option than Vlasic. Why would you hang on to Vlasic when he's a much worse contract and a more negative overall player? That doesn't make any sense. The point isn't to get any value back. It's to gain needed flexibility by using the chips we have as an organizational strength. If this team wants to rebuild after such a deal, they open more space for themselves to make a deal like this but for something that's more of a fit or need than what they're moving out. Meier is the realistic sweetener needed to get a team to take on an NMC player before the expansion draft especially someone as bad as Vlasic with that bad of a contract. We either pay to get rid of it through trade or through a buyout and a 10 year payout seems like the worse of these two options.

 

[Gecklund]

I think as a basis for a deal, it is acceptable. I simply think that regardless of whether we're trying to rebuild or trying to contend, this is the type of deal the Sharks need to make before next season starts. Rebuilding version of the Sharks needs to move at least one defenseman, especially one providing no value in any sort of way, and also move a winger where the team has an abundance of valuable players.



Not with this trade alone but it opens up valuable cap space to address glaring roster issues. The Sharks need a legitimate 3C, which could be Bordeleau, but also one that makes it easier to shift Couture to the wing. I get that this isn't a typical rebuild maneuver but I don't believe the team needs a full-on rebuild. Even if it did, you can't wait to open up cap space. If they land an elite player in the 2022 draft, you have a three year window from there to truly get the most out of that deal. You can't wait to deal with bad contracts until then. You have to make deals where you can to prepare for that potential. I do understand wanting to trade Meier for a full value futures based package. I just don't think this team is that far off but it does take a few moves to get there.



Why wouldn't you move Vlasic alone for that? Tatar gets flipped at the deadline. Chiarot is off the books after next season if he isn't chosen in the expansion draft. Byron has two years after this and is a substantially better buyout option than Vlasic. Why would you hang on to Vlasic when he's a much worse contract and a more negative overall player? That doesn't make any sense. The point isn't to get any value back. It's to gain needed flexibility by using the chips we have as an organizational strength. If this team wants to rebuild after such a deal, they open more space for themselves to make a deal like this but for something that's more of a fit or need than what they're moving out. Meier is the realistic sweetener needed to get a team to take on an NMC player before the expansion draft especially someone as bad as Vlasic with that bad of a contract. We either pay to get rid of it through trade or through a buyout and a 10 year payout seems like the worse of these two options.

Because Vlasic alone is a much better option at not bumping out our young guys. If I’m trading Vlasic it’s for a cap dump at another position and I’m not including Timo. This deal means 3 young guys are pushed out.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Because Vlasic alone is a much better option at not bumping out our young guys. If I’m trading Vlasic it’s for a cap dump at another position and I’m not including Timo. This deal means 3 young guys are pushed out.

No it doesn't. Tatar is almost certainly moved immediately after such a trade because we have no use keeping him. We'd retain 50% and get a 2nd at worst out of him. Byron is already on the taxi squad in Montreal. Don't see why he'd be in a different situation here other than maybe the 4th line which nobody should care about him playing then buy him out. Chiarot has as much of a chance at bumping a young guy as Vlasic does but we don't really have one ready to take that spot. Even if so for next season, moving 3.5 for one season is easier than seven for five. You are dumping Vlasic for a cap dump mostly at forward. And they can all be gone by the offseason. Meier is a cheap price to pay for that much cap flexibility right now.

 

[Gecklund]

No it doesn't. Tatar is almost certainly moved immediately after such a trade because we have no use keeping him. We'd retain 50% and get a 2nd at worst out of him. Byron is already on the taxi squad in Montreal. Don't see why he'd be in a different situation here other than maybe the 4th line which nobody should care about him playing then buy him out. Chiarot has as much of a chance at bumping a young guy as Vlasic does but we don't really have one ready to take that spot. Even if so for next season, moving 3.5 for one season is easier than seven for five. You are dumping Vlasic for a cap dump mostly at forward. And they can all be gone by the offseason. Meier is a cheap price to pay for that much cap flexibility right now.

Meier is not a cheap price to pay. He is the only guy under 25 that has top line potential that we have. Is it a guarantee Tatar gets anything? He plays one game and tears his ACL we ain’t getting anything. Byron is garbage absolute garbage and carries like a 3M cap hit. Chiarot is not better than any of Knyzhov, Ferraro, or Simek but you know BB plays Chiarot over them.

 

[Sharksrule04]

What stands out to me is how fast he reset after.

100% this. Don’t care too much about those saves, because a large part of them is luck. It’s the speed at which he reset and squared up to any possible shots that was very impressive.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Meier is not a cheap price to pay. He is the only guy under 25 that has top line potential that we have. Is it a guarantee Tatar gets anything? He plays one game and tears his ACL we ain’t getting anything. Byron is garbage absolute garbage and carries like a 3M cap hit. Chiarot is not better than any of Knyzhov, Ferraro, or Simek but you know BB plays Chiarot over them.

That is simply not true. Balcers, Leonard, and a few of our prospects have top line potential. Yes, it's a guarantee that Tatar gets something. He's producing at Meier's level right now and he's a rental. It may only be a second but even if it were nothing, why would you care about riding out this season with him? Short and long term cap relief is beneficial even for a rebuilding club. If he gets hurt then he's riding out this year and not in any kid's way. Your concern there is unwarranted. Byron is trash and carries that hit but doesn't get in anyone's way. He gets bought out at season's end or put on the taxi squad at a reduced rate if he's injured during the buyout period which is unlikely. If Boughner isn't playing Vlasic over those guys to any real extent why believe it'd be different for Chiarot? Even so, his contract expires after next season. Even if he is worse than Vlasic, that buyout is 1.83 mil and 833k. All of that is easier to get out from under than Vlasic and Meier is pretty replaceable.