Speculation: 2020-2021 Sharks Roster Discussion Part 7

[TheBeard]

Why wouldn't it? If everyone has dropped off a cliff scoring-wise at the same time, maybe that's not an indication of individual regression.

I think it's an indication of age and lack of depth. It's not like the guys behind him are just having bad years. It's guys like Leonard, Nieto and Donato.

 

[Pavelski2112]

I think it's an indication of age and lack of depth. It's not like the guys behind him are just having bad years. It's guys like Leonard, Nieto and Donato.

That's kind of what I'm saying, though. If Burns doesn't have guys like a prime Pavelski or Thornton to play with, then of course he's not going to score as much. No one's going to turn Matt Nieto into a 40-goal scorer.

 

[TheBeard]

That's kind of what I'm saying, though. If Burns doesn't have guys like a prime Pavelski or Thornton to play with, then of course he's not going to score as much. No one's going to turn Matt Nieto into a 40-goal scorer.

The guy is in decline. It's not a terrible reality in that it was expected. He used to rely on that heavy shot of his, which he doesn't use nearly as much as he used to. Long gone are the days of 20-30 goals. He's an unreliable defenseman and has become an average offensive player. There's no shame in that but it's not a great contract at the moment.

 

[Pavelski2112]

The guy is in decline. It's not a terrible reality in that it was expected. He used to rely on that heavy shot of his, which he doesn't use nearly as much as he used to. Long gone are the days of 20-30 goals. He's an unreliable defenseman and has become an average offensive player. There's no shame in that but it's not a great contract at the moment.

I can agree that he's not the same as 2016 Burns but the original point was that he's not worth his current contract, which I disagree with.

Again, 45 points from the backend isn't "average", especially on a team where the highest scoring person on the team last year scored 49.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I was just coming here to say this. Seabrook’s LTIRetirement is a perfect example of why we should NOT trade any valuable assets to relinquish our long-term contracts. We can’t be certain of the long-term harm they will do to us, but it is very likely it will wind up being less than the harm from trading away a valuable piece like Meier.

Agree 100%. Hopefully vlasic reads the writing on the wall. Problem with the sharks is you don't have to go too far down the list to get to the "not all that valuable" assets.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I can agree that he's not the same as 2016 Burns but the original point was that he's not worth his current contract, which I disagree with.

Again, 45 points from the backend isn't "average", especially on a team where the highest scoring person on the team last year scored 49.

Burns is the least of this teams problems. Trying to prop him up as such is just spouting hot takes.

 

[TheBeard]

Burns is the least of this teams problems. Trying to prop him up as such is just spouting hot takes.

I don't think anyone is saying he's the biggest problem, but that contract right now and for the next 4 years doesn't do the team any favors.

 

[Sysreq]

I don't think anyone is saying he's the biggest problem, but that contract right now and for the next 4 years doesn't do the team any favors.

I don’t even rank Burns like top-3 in problems though. Karlsson, Vlasic, Jones, Couture are all much more pressing issues IMO. I’d even argue Timo might be ahead of Burns if he is still hoping for a 10 million QO.

I think we could move Burns for a return. I don’t think anyone would take the 4 I listed.

 

[TheBeard]

I don’t even rank Burns like top-3 in problems though. Karlsson, Vlasic, Jones, Couture are all much more pressing issues IMO. I’d even argue Timo might be ahead of Burns if he is still hoping for a 10 million QO.

I think we could move Burns for a return. I don’t think anyone would take the 4 I listed.

I don’t think anyone is saying it is. All I said was for the past year and change and for the rest of the deal we won’t be getting a great return of value for his deal. I do think he is a part of the biggest problem and that’s that we have 3 of the 17 highest paid defensemen and none of those three are our best defenseman. Burns also has a limited no trade clause so he won’t be that easy to move. Timo is still young and we’re only tied up for two more years on his current deal.

Burns is also a bigger problem than Couture who quietly is having another good year.

 

[Karl Prime]

That's kind of what I'm saying, though. If Burns doesn't have guys like a prime Pavelski or Thornton to play with, then of course he's not going to score as much. No one's going to turn Matt Nieto into a 40-goal scorer.

That's not totally true. Karlsson put up back to back 70+ point seasons with Stone, Hoffman, Turris, and Ryan as his top forwards. Couture, Kane, and Hertl are in a similar class. I expect Karlsson to put up .7 PPG the rest of the season and Burns should too.

 

[Sysreq]

That's not totally true. Karlsson put up back to back 70+ point seasons with Stone, Hoffman, Turris, and Ryan as his top forwards. Couture, Kane, and Hertl are in a similar class. I expect Karlsson to put up .7 PPG the rest of the season and Burns should too.

Whoa there 0.7 PPG from here on out? EK65 has 1 goal on the year and 2 points in his last 5 games. It’s a little early to say he’s going to be at 0.7 PPG from here on out.

 

[Dicdonya]

I don’t even rank Burns like top-3 in problems though. Karlsson, Vlasic, Jones, Couture are all much more pressing issues IMO. I’d even argue Timo might be ahead of Burns if he is still hoping for a 10 million QO.

I think we could move Burns for a return. I don’t think anyone would take the 4 I listed.

I am sure someone would take Cooch, just not sure what sort of return we would get.

He is still playing well, and his playoff acumen is a big selling point. Also outside of his mouth, has no serious injury history, and his playstyle is not something that should decline too sharply with age. Only issue is his NTC and if he would be willing to open that up for DW to get a better set of options.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm putting good odds on the Sharks trading for Holtby or Koskinen after the expansion draft lol

 

[Gecklund]

I'm putting good odds on the Sharks trading for Holtby or Koskinen after the expansion draft lol

Trade for a goalie before and expose Jones!

Now I’d rather a younger goalie like Husso, Georgiev, or Montembault

 

[Grave]

Can we trade Jones?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Trade for a goalie before and expose Jones!

Now I’d rather a younger goalie like Husso, Georgiev, or Montembault

Well if all goes according to my plan, he is exposed anyway lol

 

[Cas]

Well if all goes according to my plan, he is exposed anyway lol

Protect Korenar, expose Jones. Neither will be picked anyway, but Korenar at least has theoretical upside.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Protect Korenar, expose Jones. Neither will be picked anyway, but Korenar at least has theoretical upside.

Pay Seattle to take Jones and sign someone like Brossoit and they're much further ahead.

 

[Cas]

Pay Seattle to take Jones and sign someone like Brossoit and they're much further ahead.

That'd cost, what, Hertl and Meier at 50% retained plus three firsts?

I'm still not sure that's fair for Seattle.

 

[Gecklund]

Pay Seattle to take Jones and sign someone like Brossoit and they're much further ahead.

I think that’s much easier said than done. What do we give to have them take Jones?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

That'd cost, what, Hertl and Meier at 50% retained plus three firsts?

I'm still not sure that's fair for Seattle.

I think that’s much easier said than done. What do we give to have them take Jones?

Meier should be sufficient.

 

[one2gamble]

Protect Korenar, expose Jones. Neither will be picked anyway, but Korenar at least has theoretical upside.

There isn't a goalie in the system I would protect from anything

 

[Karl Prime]

Whoa there 0.7 PPG from here on out? EK65 has 1 goal on the year and 2 points in his last 5 games. It’s a little early to say he’s going to be at 0.7 PPG from here on out.

And now he has 3 points in 4 games since his injury. If he keeps the good form he'll be producing.

 

[Gecklund]

Meier should be sufficient.

So basically we lose a top 6/line winger that is only 24 that has scored 0.6 PPG while being good defensively and playing a power forward game to clear 6M of cap space on a team that isn’t going anywhere and has very little in the system (nothing outside of Melnichuk) in goal. Honestly I’d rather keep Jones and get a few more high picks until Melnichuk is ready.

 

[Cas]

Yeah, if you're trading Meier to dump Jones, you're not seriously competing for a few years anyway and might as well either ride Jones out as a backup or just buy him out.