Speculation: 2020-2021 Sharks Roster Discussion Part 7

[TheBeard]

I think people like you are writing it off a tad prematurely.

Maybe, but there was never a chance the team was going to get production that matched the value of that deal. They hoped to get 2 maybe 3 years of elite play and then deal with the consequences. I'm not expecting to even get that at this point and it would be downright foolish to think we will.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Maybe, but there was never a chance the team was going to get production that matched the value of that deal. They hoped to get 2 maybe 3 years of elite play and then deal with the consequences. I'm not expecting to even get that at this point and it would be downright foolish to think we will.

That's simply not true. EK65 is a very productive offensive player. There's still a chance he will get that sort of production. Burns was 31 and 32 when he was Norris caliber and near PPG. Karlsson has historically had better offensive instincts than Burns so if he can actually get healthy, which is still possible, he can reach that form again. Are they good odds? No but they are definitely above zero. Some people just don't want to admit that it's more complicated than the black and white cooked or not type of arguments made around here.

 

[TheBeard]

That's simply not true. EK65 is a very productive offensive player. There's still a chance he will get that sort of production. Burns was 31 and 32 when he was Norris caliber and near PPG. Karlsson has historically had better offensive instincts than Burns so if he can actually get healthy, which is still possible, he can reach that form again. Are they good odds? No but they are definitely above zero. Some people just don't want to admit that it's more complicated than the black and white cooked or not type of arguments made around here.

You're right. It is more complicated. EK65 is also a complete liability in the defensive zone and on the PK plus he's injury prone. Essentially he's just a good forward pretending to be a defenseman and that ain't worth 11.5. But you're right, the odds of him suddenly being a dominant D man again are higher than 0. I'll give you that.

You flat out don't make that outrageous deal in the HOPES he can be the player he once was. He wasn't even that anymore when he was traded to us. Hoping someone returns to their prime isn't what you pay top dollar for.

 

[jarr92]

3. Make a blockbuster trade to get a top center and build around him, whether through more trades, FA, or the draft, which we have actually done before.

I'm pretty sure everyone would be on board with trading for Eichel if his return was similar to what DW gave up for Thornton. If the Sharks can get Eichel by trading away 3 decent to mediocre players I am 100% on board. If it requires trading away 3-4 of their most valuable assets plus a future 1st, I am 100% not on board.

With the Sharks cap situation, IMO the best way for the team to rebound quickly would be to have multiple roster spots filled effectively by players still on their ELC. That isn't going to happen by trading all of those assets for a guy making 10 million until 2026, even if he is only 24.

 

[jarr92]

I don't know a single person, fan, analyst that saw the Karlsson signing as good. This isn't a hindsight thing, this was a bad signing before the ink was even dry.

Most people thought EK65 was a necessary overpayment of about 1-2 million if I remember correctly. After Doughty got his deal it was only a matter of time before EK65 got 11m+, that's how the league works. The Vlasic signing was the deal everyone knew was horrible right as it happened.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

Most people thought EK65 was a necessary overpayment of about 1-2 million if I remember correctly.

There were a lot of active posters on this board that liked that signing. Outside of this Sharks board, a lot of people called Karlsson’s deal a horrible contract right when it was signed.

 

[Levie]

There were a lot of active posters on this board that liked that signing. Outside of this Sharks board, a lot of people called Karlsson’s deal a horrible contract right when it was signed.

A lot of those other communities (twitter, facebook, etc.) are some of the most toxic fans I think I've ever read. And their blind hatred towards Karlsson is blown way out of proportion, most of them don't even seem to have a solid grasp of hockey and think we should have just given Pavelski $11m/yr to keep him (yes I read this)

 

[CupfortheSharks]

A lot of those other communities (twitter, facebook, etc.) are some of the most toxic fans I think I've ever read. And their blind hatred towards Karlsson is blown way out of proportion, most of them don't even seem to have a solid grasp of hockey and think we should have just given Pavelski $11m/yr to keep him (yes I read this)

There are and were plenty of knowledgeable people that called that contract horrible right when it was signed.

 

[TheBeard]

There are and were plenty of knowledgeable people that called that contract horrible right when it was signed.

I even would have been ok with it had the team didn’t already have two aging defensemen on big long term contracts. It just made no sense to me.

 

[ChompChomp]

You flat out don't make that outrageous deal in the HOPES he can be the player he once was.

I disagree with the notion that the deal was made in the "hopes" he can be the old EK65, but even if I did agree with that premise,

You absolutely do it when you are a franchise that has never signed an elite UFA in his prime with no previous connection to the team, and likely never will, given that in the NHL, unlike the other North American major pro leagues, there is a huge bias amongst players in favor of playing back east, whether it's Canadians wanting to play closer to home (home being Ontario/Quebec), Euros wanting to play closer to Europe, or simply avoiding the horrendous travel that comes with playing for a team like San Jose. Talent like Erik Karlsson doesn't come around too often, and even when it does, for the Sharks the only way to get it is draft or trade.

 

[Dicdonya]

Most people thought EK65 was a necessary overpayment of about 1-2 million if I remember correctly. After Doughty got his deal it was only a matter of time before EK65 got 11m+, that's how the league works. The Vlasic signing was the deal everyone knew was horrible right as it happened.

You can say the same for Vlasic though. He was significantly underpaid until that contract, everyone knew he was getting a raise whether it was with the Sharks or not. Sadly he fell off a cliff as opposed to slowly declining, and there was debate about how much he was actually worth as a one dimensional defensive defenseman. However it was no shock he got a big contract.

 

[jarr92]

You can say the same for Vlasic though. He was significantly underpaid until that contract, everyone knew he was getting a raise whether it was with the Sharks or not. Sadly he fell off a cliff as opposed to slowly declining, and there was debate about how much he was actually worth as a one dimensional defensive defenseman. However it was no shock he got a big contract.

I was only referring to the reactions from the Sharks re-signing threads. Almost everyone hated the Vlasic contract as soon as it was announced, and most we’re happy Karlsson re-signed at that price.

If you want to have a laugh here are the threads:

Confirmed with Link: - EK65 back. 8 years, 11.5M per

Confirmed with Link: - Vlasic (8 for $56M) and Jones (6 for $34.5M) get contract extensions

 

[ChompChomp]

I was only referring to the reactions from the Sharks re-signing threads. Almost everyone hated the Vlasic contract as soon as it was announced, and most we’re happy Karlsson re-signed at that price.

If you want to have a laugh here are the threads:

Confirmed with Link: - EK65 back. 8 years, 11.5M per

Confirmed with Link: - Vlasic (8 for $56M) and Jones (6 for $34.5M) get contract extensions

Looking at the Vlasic/Jones thread, man some of those comments did not age well. LOL

Interestingly, there was a post in there towards the end noting that Vlasic's NMC only lasts until 2023 and then for the rest of the contract it is an NTC.

Too early to say that on July 1, 2023, Vlasic is waived?

 

[Dicdonya]

I was only referring to the reactions from the Sharks re-signing threads. Almost everyone hated the Vlasic contract as soon as it was announced, and most we’re happy Karlsson re-signed at that price.

If you want to have a laugh here are the threads:

Confirmed with Link: - EK65 back. 8 years, 11.5M per

Confirmed with Link: - Vlasic (8 for $56M) and Jones (6 for $34.5M) get contract extensions

Ah ok I gotcha

 

[Desert Eagle]

There are and were plenty of knowledgeable people that called that contract horrible right when it was signed.

I never posted it here because you could understand me wrong, but tbh 90% fans in Russia (Sharks’ and non-Sharks’ fans) told it right after contract was signed. I remember how surprised I was seeing huge difference in reaction between American and Russian Sharks’ fans (I mean true fans). We discussed this contract in local forums many times and our opinion always was that contract is horrible. And don’t tell me please that we are all EK65’s haters, it’s ridiculous.
You can’t pay 11,5 mln for offensive minded D losing many other important players like Dillon, Braun, etc. I don’t even mean Pavs. Especially when your roster already full of big contracts. I’m not happy that I was right because I wanted to believe that EK65 will earn all that crazy salary and team will finally win SC.
This team can’t compete. They don’t even want to defend each other as we seen on Simek’s situation. It was pathetic.
If DW doesn’t want to tank/rebuild, he gotta be fired.

 

[Barrie22]

Standings in the west by point percentage.

 

[Kegsey]

I just want a high pick and a plan for these bad contracts. Honestly don’t really care what happens with these games as long as we don’t see more injuries.

 

[stator]

Two years left at $7m for Pavelski looks pretty darn good right now, doesn't it?

 

[Barrie22]

Two years left at $7m for Pavelski looks pretty darn good right now, doesn't it?

Nope. He would not be looking good on this team either. He does not drive the play, he is no longer a good defensive player. All he is good for is the power play and deflections.

 

[one2gamble]

Two years left at $7m for Pavelski looks pretty darn good right now, doesn't it?

he would have maybe 3 points on this team

 

[themelkman]

I think everyone wishes we picked Pavs over EK, but thats hindsight mostly. If EK was still him at his best there would be no problems

 

[Barrie22]

Pavelski has 50 points in 81 games.
Karlsson has 49 points in 69 games.

This year is just full luck.

 

[Gecklund]

I think everyone wishes we picked Pavs over EK, but thats hindsight mostly. If EK was still him at his best there would be no problems

In hindsight I kind of wish we didn’t make the EK trade and let Pav and everyone else walk and trade Pav for assets at the deadline before he left. Still trade Tierney/Demelo for stuff but keep Balcers, Norris, Stutzle and have some other stuff. Roll with

Kane-Hertl-Stutzle
Couture-Norris-Timo
Donato-Gambrell/Gregor-Labanc
Balcers-Marleau-Nieto

Ferraro-Burns
Simek-Shattenkirk/other FA RD
Vlasic-Merkley

Now this is with knowing exactly what everyone turns into. There’s no telling what would happen without EK or if Norris develops the way he did, etc.

 

[Mafoofoo]

Nope. He would not be looking good on this team either. He does not drive the play, he is no longer a good defensive player. All he is good for is the power play and deflections.

In a vacuum you’re right but having Pavs and Dillon over Karlsson, I think would have the team in a better place than we currently are.

I also believe with Pavelski still in the locker room we don’t have some of these issues within the team.

 

[Cas]

In hindsight I kind of wish we didn’t make the EK trade and let Pav and everyone else walk and trade Pav for assets at the deadline before he left. Still trade Tierney/Demelo for stuff but keep Balcers, Norris, Stutzle and have some other stuff. Roll with

Kane-Hertl-Stutzle
Couture-Norris-Timo
Donato-Gambrell/Gregor-Labanc
Balcers-Marleau-Nieto

Ferraro-Burns
Simek-Shattenkirk/other FA RD
Vlasic-Merkley

Now this is with knowing exactly what everyone turns into. There’s no telling what would happen without EK or if Norris develops the way he did, etc.

There's also no guarantee the Sharks are in a position to get Stutzle.