Speculation: 2020-2021 Sharks Roster Discussion Part 7

[Barrie22]

LBI.

Is it the lower body covid that people were worried about with karlsson?

 

[TheBeard]

Is it the lower body covid that people were worried about with karlsson?

I know he had core issues in the preseason.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Yea, he was going to TOR no matter what. The Sharks even offered him more money apparently.

Sharks (and NYI) were just names to drive up the price as high as it could in Toronto.

 

[sharski]

DW: how much you wanna make a bet i can throw a stanley cup over them mountains... yeah... Tavares signs here for $13 million we’d have been stanley cup champions, no doubt... no doubt in my mind... you better believe things would’ve been different...

 

[Lebanezer]

DW: how much you wanna make a bet i can throw a stanley cup over them mountains... yeah... Tavares signs here for $13 million we’d have been stanley cup champions, no doubt... no doubt in my mind... you better believe things would’ve been different...

If the Sharks had won the McDavid lottery there’s no question in my mind they would have won the Stanley cup in 2016.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Is it the lower body covid that people were worried about with karlsson?

Lower body covid? I have no idea what that even means...

 

[Barrie22]

Lower body covid? I have no idea what that even means...

You missed the tweet when karlsson was 1st said to be injured i am guessing?

 

[FunkyPhin]

If the Sharks had won the McDavid lottery there’s no question in my mind they would have won the Stanley cup in 2016.

Imagine if the Sharks played the same teams the Kings did in the SCF, instead we get probably the best version of the pens in the Crosby era.

 

[hohosaregood]

JJ Watt's a free agent. He sshould help the defense a bit.

 

[one2gamble]

If the Sharks had won the McDavid lottery there’s no question in my mind they would have won the Stanley cup in 2016.

Just imagine how much happier mcjesus would be

 

[Lebanezer]

Just imagine how much happier mcjesus would be

The thought of a 2nd line comprised of Couture-McDavid-Donskoi line steamrolling the Penguins, that would have been great. Plus the publicity of McDavid as a rookie going against Crosby would’ve been too good. You messed it all up Bettman.

 

[Pavelski2112]

The thought of a 2nd line comprised of Couture-McDavid-Donskoi line steamrolling the Penguins, that would have been great. Plus the publicity of McDavid as a rookie going against Crosby would’ve been too good. You messed it all up Bettman.

Tbf it was pretty hilarious to see Bill Daly's face when he picked up the Edmonton card

 

[OrrNumber4]

Talking about horseshoes and nails, I am thinking about 2012. To recap, DW believed that after that season that the Sharks needed a refresh. Even though that plan was stalled by the success of the 2013 and 2014 teams (to his credit, DW didn't fight the on-ice results), once things fell apart in 2014 he fully committed to the rebuild, and by 2016 the Sharks were a contender again.

What if Wilson treated 2018 like 2012? He doesn't extend Kane and doesn't go for Karlsson. Since Jones is actually terrible, and the Sharks don't have Karlsson or Kane, they are at best a bubble team. DW tells his players that he isn't planning on competing, and between the deadline he is able to sell off (at a minimum) Vlasic, Thornton, Pavelski, and Donskoi as the Sharks don't make the playoffs. The next season the Sharks are no better, and DW still sells off players like Dillion and Sorensen. Conceivably, they are even worse than the actual 2020 Sharks but let's say they just get the Stuzle pick and trade for Donato/Dubnyk:

Hertl-Couture-Labanc
Donato-Norris-Meier
Balcers-Tierney-Marleau
Stuzle-Gregor-Nieto

Ferraro-Burns
Knyzhov-DeMelo (if not traded away)
Simek-Braun (Sharks keep him for veteran presence)

Jones (if they didn't manage to trade him while he had decent value in 2019)
Dubnyk

Not to mention:

• Assets obtained for selling aforementioned players.
• Prospects drafted with the extra picks in 2019 (by my count, an extra first from not signing Kane, an extra 2nd from not trading for Nyquist, and an extra 2nd for not trading for Karlsson assuming the Hoffman deal is still done).
• Prospects drafted with the picks they keep (other than Stuzle) in 2020 (by my count, an extra 3rd from not trading for Nyquist.)

Plus, given two seasons of not making the playoffs, and with plenty of cap space, it is almost inevitable that DW targets some big fish at the most cromulent time. Maybe the Sharks can sign Alex Pietrangelo or Taylor Hall, or get some assets for a cap dump? I mean, just adding someone like Robin Lehner would probably make this a playoff team.

 

[KirbyDots]

Talking about horseshoes and nails, I am thinking about 2012. To recap, DW believed that after that season that the Sharks needed a refresh. Even though that plan was stalled by the success of the 2013 and 2014 teams (to his credit, DW didn't fight the on-ice results), once things fell apart in 2014 he fully committed to the rebuild, and by 2016 the Sharks were a contender again.

What if Wilson treated 2018 like 2012? He doesn't extend Kane and doesn't go for Karlsson. Since Jones is actually terrible, and the Sharks don't have Karlsson or Kane, they are at best a bubble team. DW tells his players that he isn't planning on competing, and between the deadline he is able to sell off (at a minimum) Vlasic, Thornton, Pavelski, and Donskoi as the Sharks don't make the playoffs. The next season the Sharks are no better, and DW still sells off players like Dillion and Sorensen. Conceivably, they are even worse than the actual 2020 Sharks but let's say they just get the Stuzle pick and trade for Donato/Dubnyk:

Hertl-Couture-Labanc
Donato-Norris-Meier
Balcers-Tierney-Marleau
Stuzle-Gregor-Nieto

Ferraro-Burns
Knyzhov-DeMelo (if not traded away)
Simek-Braun (Sharks keep him for veteran presence)

Jones (if they didn't manage to trade him while he had decent value in 2019)
Dubnyk

Not to mention:

• Assets obtained for selling aforementioned players.
• Prospects drafted with the extra picks in 2019 (by my count, an extra first from not signing Kane, an extra 2nd from not trading for Nyquist, and an extra 2nd for not trading for Karlsson assuming the Hoffman deal is still done).
• Prospects drafted with the picks they keep (other than Stuzle) in 2020 (by my count, an extra 3rd from not trading for Nyquist.)

Plus, given two seasons of not making the playoffs, and with plenty of cap space, it is almost inevitable that DW targets some big fish at the most cromulent time. Maybe the Sharks can sign Alex Pietrangelo or Taylor Hall, or get some assets for a cap dump? I mean, just adding someone like Robin Lehner would probably make this a playoff team.

This isn't useful. You can't simply assume we would finish in the same spot to get Stuzle if we didn't make the Karlsson trade and there's no telling if the team would have made the Donato/Dubnyk moves if we weren't in the position we were in over the summer. Hindsight is 20/20, there was a history of injury with Karlsson but no indication it would have been so extensive, it was a calculated risk. That said, some mistakes are more easily avoidable. For example, the Vlasic contract, which is far too much money for a defensive dman. Would we have been better off if we had tanked a season or two earlier? Maybe. It's also possible that we would have finished middle 10 in the league and floundered, not every rebuild works out.

 

[Karl Prime]

If Wilson hadn't been able to trade for Karlsson, maybe he trades for some other top D-man like Ekman-Larsson. It's impossible to know what would have happened had the Karlsson trade not happened, or if he didn't sign. (After a successful 18-19 season why would Wilson decide to rebuild? Likely he tries to bolster the team for another run in that instance.)

 

[OrrNumber4]

This isn't useful.

I mean....yeah. That's this entire forum!

You can't simply assume we would finish in the same spot to get Stuzle if we didn't make the Karlsson trade and there's no telling if the team would have made the Donato/Dubnyk moves if we weren't in the position we were in over the summer. Hindsight is 20/20, there was a history of injury with Karlsson but no indication it would have been so extensive, it was a calculated risk. That said, some mistakes are more easily avoidable. For example, the Vlasic contract, which is far too much money for a defensive dman. Would we have been better off if we had tanked a season or two earlier? Maybe. It's also possible that we would have finished middle 10 in the league and floundered, not every rebuild works out.

If Wilson hadn't been able to trade for Karlsson, maybe he trades for some other top D-man like Ekman-Larsson. It's impossible to know what would have happened had the Karlsson trade not happened, or if he didn't sign. (After a successful 18-19 season why would Wilson decide to rebuild? Likely he tries to bolster the team for another run in that instance.)

The greater assumption in my alternate history is DW deciding not to contend after 2017-2018. Without Kane and Karlsson, and with trading all the major pieces, I can't see the Sharks being better in 2020. The presumption is that DW wouldn't have targeted a big fish until the "2020" offseason, which I contend would make the team even better this season.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

You missed the tweet when karlsson was 1st said to be injured i am guessing?

Probably. I'm not on twitter. Just go there sometimes to read Shengs info on game days.

 

[hohosaregood]

Seems like Ottawa's got a little win streak going on. If that keeps up, clear cut bottom 5 is looking to be SJ, ANA, BUF, NYR, and DET. I think we could drop below ANA and NYR at some point since they have some pretty high end prospects on the verge of productivity. BUF and DET have a little too many issues to rise above us it seems. The wildcard for us would be how much can Karlsson contribute and if Jones will continue to be the starter, even though he has by far the worst results of any goalie in the league.

 

[OffSydes]

In order to get Eichel you have to take Skinner, do you do it and how do you make it work?

 

[Gecklund]

In order to get Eichel you have to take Skinner, do you do it and how do you make it work?

They’d have to take Vlasic and either Jones or Couture and then I’d send them some futures but not nearly as much as without Skinner. I think I’d offer something like

Vlasic+Couture+Labanc+Kniazev+True for Skinner+Eichel

 

[one2gamble]

In order to get Eichel you have to take Skinner, do you do it and how do you make it work?

Ill take skinner if the trade is Eichel and Skinner for Vlasic, Jones and Couture.

 

[tiburon12]

In order to get Eichel you have to take Skinner, do you do it and how do you make it work?

No, and i dont think any team is willing to take 9m until 2027 just to Eichel until 2026.

But for fun, i think the sharks would have to offer Meier and or Hertl in addition to getting vlasic and jones off the books. The former two represent guys that will need to be extended within the lifespan of the Eichel/Skinner contracts and the Sharks probably wouldnt be able to afford them.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

In order to get Eichel you have to take Skinner, do you do it and how do you make it work?

You do it yes but I don't think the Sharks can make that work without either sending a claused player or sending both Meier and Labanc back with other dumps like Sorensen, Simek, and Dubnyk while having Buffalo retain 1.5 mil on Skinner. Can't see Buffalo doing something like that because it will impact their futures return on Eichel. We wouldn't be giving them Ferraro in that situation and they'd probably only get one or two picks/prospects instead of the haul they'd get sending Eichel on his own.

 

[Red Light Lover]

In order to get Eichel you have to take Skinner, do you do it and how do you make it work?

That easy, Doug Wilson works his magic... Vlassic, Jones, Dahlen, 6th (2022) :for: Eichel, Skinner, 2nd (2021) I'd make that trade 11/10 times

 

[Pinkfloyd]

That easy, Doug Wilson works his magic... Vlassic, Jones, Dahlen, 6th (2022) :for: Eichel, Skinner, 2nd (2021) I'd make that trade 11/10 times

I just can't see either Vlasic or Jones being okay with going to Buffalo. It'd probably be Meier, Labanc, Simek, Sorensen, and a couple picks and prospects for Eichel and Skinner. And if they can make it where they only move one of their 1sts the next couple seasons at most then I'd be fine with eating Skinner's contract to get Eichel. But the chances Buffalo would actually require this seems slim.