Speculation: 2020-2021: Sharks Roster Discussion Part 5

[Kcoyote3]

First-line Nieto is giving me waking nightmares.

Ahhhhhh.

No finish Nieto

 

[Barrie22]

Sharks are a long way from a Detroit style forced rebuild. Minimum 4 seasons if they ever get there. Detroit just ran out of talent either thru retirement, injury or players leaving. Sharks aren't even close yet.

We also might have a top 6 player that has never put up 30 points in his career before.

And a 3rd line full of players that have never done 30 points we are much closer then you think.

 

[seroes]

Sharks are a long way from a Detroit style forced rebuild. Minimum 4 seasons if they ever get there. Detroit just ran out of talent either thru retirement, injury or players leaving. Sharks aren't even close yet.

We have very little young talent coming in our prospect pool. Our best prospect is Merkley and he plays the 1 position we don't need help at. After that it's a whole lot of potential depth players. Maybe a couple of them become second liners if things are out our way. But thats a big if.

Our bottom six will be terrible this year even if we pick up someone like Haula. We are locked into an aging and soon to be declining core with multiple bad contracts. The soonest we get out of one of those bad contracts is 4 years from now with Jones. Some of our youngest players are due a raise soon in Donato (assuming he works out which i honestly dont if he will) and Hertl in 2 years. If we don't make the playoffs we end up trading Hertl just to try to get some assets because our core just isn't that great. He is the only piece that I think gets us a large return.

While you may be right that being like Detroit is years off, its the path I see us on right now.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

We also might have a top 6 player that has never put up 30 points in his career before.

And a 3rd line full of players that have never done 30 points we are much closer then you think.

Isn't that true of every team who has a young player who earns a top 6 role?

As far them being closer than I think... Sorry, nope. At worst it'll be patty, Nieto &.. Maybe Gregor? Most likely going to be Handy instead of Gregor. First 10 to 15 games will be a learning experience for Handy but face-offs and defensive play are transferable skills. Creating offense will be the challenge for him but that's not why they signed him. Hopefully a more offensively gifted player beats him out for 3c. As the roster stands now though it seems like it's him or Patty.

We have very little young talent coming in our prospect pool. Our best prospect is Merkley and he plays the 1 position we don't need help at. After that it's a whole lot of potential depth players. Maybe a couple of them become second liners if things are out our way. But thats a big if.

Our bottom six will be terrible this year even if we pick up someone like Haula. We are locked into an aging and soon to be declining core with multiple bad contracts. The soonest we get out of one of those bad contracts is 4 years from now with Jones. Some of our youngest players are due a raise soon in Donato (assuming he works out which i honestly dont if he will) and Hertl in 2 years. If we don't make the playoffs we end up trading Hertl just to try to get some assets because our core just isn't that great. He is the only piece that I think gets us a large return.

While you may be right that being like Detroit is years off, its the path I see us on right now.

That remains to be seen. Didn't they just add a bunch of players at the draft? Sounds like there are a few that potentially better than their draft position at least. Other than Merk (who they likely need as early as year after expansion) there is Leonard, Melnichuk (whatever), Pasinchuck (again whatever) and it's not unreasonable to think one of the other prospects turns into a top 6 player. We'll have a far better idea at the end of next season where some of these guys are. It's just too early to say they have nothing coming. Our bottom 6 is frankly the least of my worries. That should actually be where this team ends up being average at minimum and potentially better than average. Tons of guys vying for those spots means they will be on their toes and playing all out. No one will feel comfortable taking a night off. They're also still apparently trying to sign at least one more Vet. I'm far more worried about the top 6 and the goaltending than the D or the bottom 6. Let's worry about actually getting the team thru the next 2 seasons before we go all chicken little. A lot can happen especially next off season at the expansion draft. Also, if Hertl remains healthy (wish) for the next 2 seasons and plays to his capability there is no way they are trading him. I could see them moving Couture before him unless the wheels fall off the Party Wagon.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Paywall
Bill Houlder on Brandon Coe: “He needs to understand he can be a dominant player.”

"Houlder tipped us off: “When you see him in camp, you’re not going to have any difficulty finding him. You’re going to probably wonder, wow really, he was in the fourth round?”

6' 4", skates like the wind, plays physical and has an NHL shot already. He's a player to look forward to in 2 or 3 seasons.

Another player that looks promising...


From this video he kinda reminds me of Landeskog.

 

[Barrie22]

Isn't that true of every team who has a young player who earns a top 6 role?

As far them being closer than I think... Sorry, nope. At worst it'll be patty, Nieto &.. Maybe Gregor? Most likely going to be Handy instead of Gregor. First 10 to 15 games will be a learning experience for Handy but face-offs and defensive play are transferable skills. Creating offense will be the challenge for him but that's not why they signed him. Hopefully a more offensively gifted player beats him out for 3c. As the roster stands now though it seems like it's him or Patty.

That remains to be seen. Other than Merk (who they likely need as early as year after expansion) there is Leonard, Melnichuk (whatever), Pasinchuck (again whatever) and it's not unreasonable to think one of the other prospects turns into a top 6 player. We'll have a far better idea at the end of next season where some of these guys are. It's just too early to say they have nothing coming. Our bottom 6 is frankly the least of my worries. That should actually be where this team ends up being average at minimum and potentially better than average. Tons of guys vying for those spots means they will be on their toes and playing all out. No one will feel comfortable taking a night off. They're also still apparently trying to sign at least one more Vet. I'm far more worried about the top 6 and the goaltending than the D or the bottom 6. Let's worry about actually getting the team thru the next 2 seasons before we go all chicken little. A lot can happen especially next off season at the expansion draft. Also, if Hertl remains healthy (wish) for the next 2 seasons and plays to his capability there is no way they are trading him. I could see them moving Couture before him unless the wheels fall off the Party Wagon.

The faith you have in this exact team that just finished bottom 5 in the league is astonishing. Where it is coming from is beyond me.

The core is one year older with serious injuries added to the top 3 players on the team. Goaltending by all stats just got worse by adding dubnyk. The defense is still a question mark, where a 2nd year player now needs to take on more of a role that we do not even know if he can handle. Then this does not even count that the entire bottom 6 and 2 of the top 6 are huge question marks that has never shown they can be full time players in those positions. And the ones that have are 10 years past there prime and should not even be in the nhl any more.

There is to many places where everything needs to go perfect for this team to even be close to the top 16 in the league.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The faith you have in this exact team that just finished bottom 5 in the league is astonishing. Where it is coming from is beyond me.

The core is one year older with serious injuries added to the top 3 players on the team. Goaltending by all stats just got worse by adding dubnyk. The defense is still a question mark, where a 2nd year player now needs to take on more of a role that we do not even know if he can handle. Then this does not even count that the entire bottom 6 and 2 of the top 6 are huge question marks that has never shown they can be full time players in those positions. And the ones that have are 10 years past there prime and should not even be in the nhl any more.

There is to many places where everything needs to go perfect for this team to even be close to the top 16 in the league.

Given the shortened and likely condensed schedule and the promised extra training camp time, the team would have to get off to a hot start to be playoff contenders. Anything is possible in what may be another 48 game schedule. I tend to feel more towards your way of thinking as to how the season likely plays out but can see them getting lucky enough long enough to make the playoffs. In a situation like this, it only takes one or two good long winning streaks to put yourself in a position to make the playoffs and stay there. If the team plays a more defensively-oriented style of hockey, I can't see them going on many long losing streaks even with their clear lack of forward talent.

 

[tiburon12]

Given the shortened and likely condensed schedule and the promised extra training camp time, the team would have to get off to a hot start to be playoff contenders. Anything is possible in what may be another 48 game schedule. I tend to feel more towards your way of thinking as to how the season likely plays out but can see them getting lucky enough long enough to make the playoffs. In a situation like this, it only takes one or two good long winning streaks to put yourself in a position to make the playoffs and stay there. If the team plays a more defensively-oriented style of hockey, I can't see them going on many long losing streaks even with their clear lack of forward talent.

this may sound contradictory, but if the bolded were to happen and Karlsson return to the level we saw him play in December 2018, the team could be more squarely in a playoff spot.

To me there are two huge variables that control the whole equation - Karlsson and the goaltending. Playoff teams don't always need top end offensive scoring (CBJ, NYI)

 

[Patty Ice]

Paywall
Bill Houlder on Brandon Coe: “He needs to understand he can be a dominant player.”

"Houlder tipped us off: “When you see him in camp, you’re not going to have any difficulty finding him. You’re going to probably wonder, wow really, he was in the fourth round?”

6' 4", skates like the wind, plays physical and has an NHL shot already. He's a player to look forward to in 2 or 3 seasons.

Reading the article, he needs to spend some time with Burns the next few camps.

 

[hohosaregood]

Coe is my dark horse prospect for 2020. Feels like there's a lot of untapped potential with him

 

[themelkman]

Paywall
Bill Houlder on Brandon Coe: “He needs to understand he can be a dominant player.”

"Houlder tipped us off: “When you see him in camp, you’re not going to have any difficulty finding him. You’re going to probably wonder, wow really, he was in the fourth round?”

6' 4", skates like the wind, plays physical and has an NHL shot already. He's a player to look forward to in 2 or 3 seasons.

Another player that looks promising...


From this video he kinda reminds me of Landeskog.

Theres no paywall on the SJ hockey now, its mostly just a link to the locked on sharks podcast which has been doing these interviews for a couple weeks.

 

[themelkman]

Coe is my dark horse prospect for 2020. Feels like there's a lot of untapped potential with him

I think at worst we have a huge third liner who can hit and skate, at best maybe a great scoring powerforward

 

[matt trick]

I’d like to see Haula picked up on a one year contract. He’d arguably be our 6th best offensive forward and could likely be moved for some picks at the deadline. Centers are always in demand. Pretty bad defensively though.

also, among bad teams I’d say Buffalo and Ottawa are clearly better than last year. The CA teams are generally stagnant. Unless goaltending pulls a rabbit out of their hat, the team looks bottom 10 to me.

 

[Used As A Shield]

This offseason is never ending.

 

[tealzamboni]

Reading the article, he needs to spend some time with Burns the next few camps.

I was thinking the same. Before we know it, he'll be spending time on Burn's ranch and growing out a beard.

 

[tealzamboni]

this may sound contradictory, but if the bolded were to happen and Karlsson return to the level we saw him play in December 2018, the team could be more squarely in a playoff spot.

To me there are two huge variables that control the whole equation - Karlsson and the goaltending. Playoff teams don't always need top end offensive scoring (CBJ, NYI)

I'm also cautiously optimistic about the equation itself coming together.
So, I'd add a third variable as the overall coaching.
I think it's good that they have a majority of forwards that can move, but it may take some time to gel defensively.

 

[Reggae Shark]

Coe is my dark horse prospect for 2020. Feels like there's a lot of untapped potential with him

Major dark horse to be a steal. I watched all his highlights when we drafted him. He's fast and so tall his long reaching backhand shots look like a Getzlaf and he scores more than a few of them.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Major dark horse to be a steal. I watched all his highlights when we drafted him. He's fast and so tall his long reaching backhand shots look like a Getzlaf and he scores more than a few of them.

Depends on his drive to be honest. If he's willing to bust his ass, he can be the best player out of this draft for the Sharks but some people just don't get that spark to get the most out of themselves in this context.

 

[Reggae Shark]

Depends on his drive to be honest. If he's willing to bust his ass, he can be the best player out of this draft for the Sharks but some people just don't get that spark to get the most out of themselves in this context.

From the article his coaches think he has the work ethic and drive, but sometimes doesn't understand how much he can impact the situation. I wonder if that's an IQ issue or just something he'll grow into?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

From the article his coaches think he has the work ethic and drive, but sometimes doesn't understand how much he can impact the situation. I wonder if that's an IQ issue or just something he'll grow into?

Tough to say. Sometimes you grow into it with experience. Sometimes you just never figure it out. Given Coe's track record, I don't know if we'll ever really know until he goes pro. I don't think there's much for him left in junior especially if he stays on a bad team.

 

[tiburon12]

I'm also cautiously optimistic about the equation itself coming together.
So, I'd add a third variable as the overall coaching.
I think it's good that they have a majority of forwards that can move, but it may take some time to gel defensively.

Totally agree. I couldn't find the right phrasing re:coaching to compliment that post, but my thoughts on coaching are this:

If the system isn't defense-oriented we are doomed. And that, to me, seems so obviously the right style of system to deploy that it must be a given to assume that will happen.

So I see it kinda as a binary variable in the equation, if that makes sense. Like, if it's a 0 the team is a 0

 

[themelkman]

Tough to say. Sometimes you grow into it with experience. Sometimes you just never figure it out. Given Coe's track record, I don't know if we'll ever really know until he goes pro. I don't think there's much for him left in junior especially if he stays on a bad team.

Well if this was a normal year they would likely deal him to a better team for a playoff run as is usual. Sadly who knows if the OHL even plays this year

 

[OrrNumber4]

From the article his coaches think he has the work ethic and drive, but sometimes doesn't understand how much he can impact the situation. I wonder if that's an IQ issue or just something he'll grow into?

Usually, scouting reports that look like Coe's are just numerous synonyms for just this...

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

The faith you have in this exact team that just finished bottom 5 in the league is astonishing. Where it is coming from is beyond me.

The core is one year older with serious injuries added to the top 3 players on the team. Goaltending by all stats just got worse by adding dubnyk. The defense is still a question mark, where a 2nd year player now needs to take on more of a role that we do not even know if he can handle. Then this does not even count that the entire bottom 6 and 2 of the top 6 are huge question marks that has never shown they can be full time players in those positions. And the ones that have are 10 years past there prime and should not even be in the nhl any more.

There is to many places where everything needs to go perfect for this team to even be close to the top 16 in the league.

The fact you can't see that this team healthy (wish) with a new system, new coaches, another year of experience for the young guys who weren't ready last season is NOT the same as last seasons team is beyond me. They didn't finish near the bottom with everyone healthy, great coaching and a great system. There were plainly obvious reasons. The core you're talking about being older... who? Burns? He's the only important player who's old and frankly I bet he still puts up 50 points next season if healthy. Everyone else who matters it 31 or less. Vlasic kinda matters but he can put on the 3rd pair if he's still sucking. I don't think he's the difference between this team missing or making the playoffs anymore. Another year older is likely beneficial to guys like Meier and Labanc and about 10 prospects who are going to be fighting for ice time. Yeah there are question marks as far as Labanc and Donato being top 6 players but they aren't without competition or even guys to fill in when they struggle. DW is also clearly trying to sign at least 1 more NHL vet forward. Unless BB is a complete train wreck and/or they get hit with a ton of injures, this roster is at a minimum fighting for a playoff spot all season. They still have 2 D-men capable of 50+ point seasons and 4 forwards who can score 30 goals.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Theres no paywall on the SJ hockey now, its mostly just a link to the locked on sharks podcast which has been doing these interviews for a couple weeks.

I add the paywall thing out of habit since people complain of you don't. Not all the articles are free.

Reading the article, he needs to spend some time with Burns the next few camps.

Agreed. Would be good for him to see a big man with wheels trains and prepares.

Usually, scouting reports that look like Coe's are just numerous synonyms for just this...

Did you watch his interview? He's not dumb. You watch Labanc interviews and he seems a little slow. Coe is very well thought out. Not sure when he hit his growth spurt but he could just be growing into his giant frame and isn't sure how far he can push it yet. Not saying he's going to be a top 6 player but he doesn't come off as unintelligent. One thing awesome about him is he has an NHL level backhand move already. He is going to need to put on some weight though. He has a neck like a giraffe... Reminds me a Mueller from his first season. One thing awesome about him is he has an NHL level backhand move already.