Speculation: 2020-2021: Sharks Roster Discussion Part 4 - Still Offseason

[Doctor Soraluce]

Guys? Who’s gonna play more if you had to guess, Jones or Dubnyk?

I'm betting Dubnyk.

 

[weastern bias]

then the season was canceled.

That was the best part

 

[STL Shark]

Those UFAs come at a cost...cap hit now and in the future.

DW did something similar in 2012-2013 after the 2012 season signaled that the Sharks needed a reset. In 2013, DW planned on selling off some assets at the TDL, but the team overachieved...so while he still moved out Murray, Handzus, and Clowe, he went out and acquired Torres and Hannan for some playoff depth. After a strong showing against LA (where he might have felt it was a coinflip series), the competitive window was open again. Marleau and Thornton were extended, the Sharks traded futures for Kennedy and Galiardi, and then the season was canceled.

Galiardi came in with Winnik in 2012 at the deadline for McGinn and Sgarabosa so that part is misremembering what happened. Edit: see that got hashed out after your post.

This is also not a normal offseason where your statement about UFA’s costing cap hit into the future is true. So many one year deals for good UFA players are being handed out right now. If you were going to have to make a long term commitment to a player, then yeah I understand it. That’s not the case this year though with this market which is why I hold firm that DW’s comment about earning the right to add a 3C is quite possibly the dumbest thing he’s ever said.

 

[Barrie22]

Those UFAs come at a cost...cap hit now and in the future.

DW did something similar in 2012-2013 after the 2012 season signaled that the Sharks needed a reset. In 2013, DW planned on selling off some assets at the TDL, but the team overachieved...so while he still moved out Murray, Handzus, and Clowe, he went out and acquired Torres and Hannan for some playoff depth. After a strong showing against LA (where he might have felt it was a coinflip series), the competitive window was open again. Marleau and Thornton were extended, the Sharks traded futures for Kennedy and Galiardi, and then the season was canceled.

There has been only 33 contracts signed since the 7th of october that has signed for more then 2 years.

One of the marquee free agents in hall only signed a 1 year deal.

This was the year to make a splash in free agency because it would not put a strain on the team long term. But wilson decided not to for whatever reason that might be. Nobody interested in joining, him not wanting to test it, not enough money for who he was after.

The average term this year was most likely at or near a 2 year average.

 

[tiburon12]

I think the high number of one year deals actually hinders the Sharks. What free agent, like Hall, would want to go to a 3rd to last team with disappointing offense and a shit goalie (lol maybe hall wasn't the best example...) with an intent to pad their stats for a big Payday next year?

We aren't the most attractive franchise right now and we know DW's reputation as a tire kicker. Maybe none of our targets targeted us

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

He did that with Donato and Nieto and Marleau. He also has options with Handmark as well. We have a solid pool on hand of cheap, good depth options in the system. Trading assets or using precious cap space on outside talent isn't a smart business decision for DW. He has to be a bit more conservative given what happened last year and the high amount of long-term, big money contracts already on the team.

I don’t see the roster as is being a contender. If DW is planning on contending like he said, why is he not actually trying to improve the team when we have the means to? Donato and Nieto aren’t bad additions, but the forward group needs way more help than that. Barring career years, Donato and LaBanc being top 6 forwards, and someone like Leonard having a Hertl-esque rookie year, the forward group is trash and so is the goaltending. The forward group is ever so marginally improved over last year, which as you know we finished last in the conference with.

 

[STL Shark]

I think the high number of one year deals actually hinders the Sharks. What free agent, like Hall, would want to go to a 3rd to last team with disappointing offense and a shit goalie (lol maybe hall wasn't the best example...) with an intent to pad their stats for a big Payday next year?

We aren't the most attractive franchise right now and we know DW's reputation as a tire kicker. Maybe none of our targets targeted us

Counterpoint is that there is a guarantee for big minutes playing with some highly skilled guys while also getting special teams minutes. Again, Haula to me is the prime example of a guy that could come in here and flourish as a 2/3C (depending how you want to use Couture as center or winger) and play 16-18 minutes a night with PP time and try and show he's healthy and playing well without a threat of being relegated to 4th line minutes like he was this past season.

Even then though, in this climate there is absolutely zero reason to not spend to the cap ceiling given Hasso has cleared him to do so. You either use the cap space to make your current roster or to alleviate another team's cap woes while they compensate you with draft picks for doing so. Having empty cap space is just an utter waste.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I don’t see the roster as is being a contender. If DW is planning on contending like he said, why is he not actually trying to improve the team when we have the means to? Donato and Nieto aren’t bad additions, but the forward group needs way more help than that. Barring career years, Donato and LaBanc being top 6 forwards, and someone like Leonard having a Hertl-esque rookie year, the forward group is trash and so is the goaltending. The forward group is ever so marginally improved over last year, which as you know we finished last in the conference with.

The forward group is trash? Frankly a lot of these complaints ignore a number of simple facts... 4x 30 goal scorers in the top 6 isn't trash. More than enough candidates for the bottom 6 to ice a competitive team. That's not even considering the fact that this team has 2 of the best offensive defensemen in the league to help with offense. Does that make them a contender? We won't know until we see how the kids play and how the team looks in the new system. But they aren't bottom of the league. Probably around average right now. If the forward group doesn't lose it's top 2 centers for large portions of the season they are a whole lot more than "marginally improved" from last season. Jury is out on the goaltending. Right now the best or worst you can say is it's 50/50 that the goaltending is worse or better than last year. If they get stats similar to what they produced after BB took over, the team will win more than they lose. So, that doesn't seem like trash to me.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

The forward group is trash? Frankly a lot of these complaints ignore a number of simple facts... 4x 30 goal scorers in the top 6 isn't trash. More than enough candidates for the bottom 6 to ice a competitive team. That's not even considering the fact that this team has 2 of the best offensive defensemen in the league to help with offense. Does that make them a contender? We won't know until we see how the kids play and how the team looks in the new system. But they aren't bottom of the league. Probably around average right now. If the forward group doesn't lose it's top 2 centers for large portions of the season they are a whole lot more than "marginally improved" from last season. Jury is out on the goaltending. Right now the best or worst you can say is it's 50/50 that the goaltending is worse or better than last year. If they get stats similar to what they produced after BB took over, the team will win more than they lose. So, that doesn't seem like trash to me.

We have 4 good top-6 forwards. But, I would not consider any our forwards elite or superstar level. Then there is the question of complementing them with 2 forwards who have certainly not shown that they are top-6 level. Sure, we have 2 of the top-2 offensive D-men in the league but lets not forget that neither of them are defensive stalwarts.

What exactly are we contending for here? A bubble team to make the playoffs? If yes. then I agree. We can certainly make the playoffs. But if you seriously think this is a team that will make a deep push into the playoffs, then you are putting a lot of faith into the kids. And the goal tending to bounce back. And Labanc and Donato to step up and become top-6 forwards. Very much like what DW did last season. And is doing again this season

 

[Barrie22]

The forward group is trash? Frankly a lot of these complaints ignore a number of simple facts... 4x 30 goal scorers in the top 6 isn't trash. More than enough candidates for the bottom 6 to ice a competitive team. That's not even considering the fact that this team has 2 of the best offensive defensemen in the league to help with offense. Does that make them a contender? We won't know until we see how the kids play and how the team looks in the new system. But they aren't bottom of the league. Probably around average right now. If the forward group doesn't lose it's top 2 centers for large portions of the season they are a whole lot more than "marginally improved" from last season. Jury is out on the goaltending. Right now the best or worst you can say is it's 50/50 that the goaltending is worse or better than last year. If they get stats similar to what they produced after BB took over, the team will win more than they lose. So, that doesn't seem like trash to me.

So we are hoping for magic fairies? Since the top 2 centers we are hoping to be healthy have never shown they can actually stay healthy.

Couture out of his 10 years in the league has played a full or very close to a full season only in 5 of them. So 50% healthy and 50% injured.

Hertl in his 7 seasons in the nhl has only 3 seasons where he has played a full or close to full season. And is already onto his 3rd new knee.

As of right now the 3rd center on the depth chart is not even capable of being a 3rd line center, let alone a top 6 center in the case the annual injury to one of the top 2 centers happens.

And we were just in the bottom 3 in the league just this past season, and that team was just as good as this current is team is just about the same one that was 3rd worst in the league last year.

Every one brings up the injuries as the reason this years team would be better but those said injuries did not happen until long after the sharks were all but considered a bottom 5 team in the league. So nieto, donato and dubnyk are just magically going to make this team drastically better? Highly doubt it.

 

[tealzamboni]

Another interesting note from DW’s latest interview is that the team needs to earn help. I actually agree with this statement. As much as I want the team to compete and add a Granlund, I think many people want accountability from the GM, coaches, and players. Earn help and you can have it, or, we can all fail together. Stupid, part of me thinks he’ll yes, but the other part of me think just ballsy enough to make the playoffs. Outside of Vegas, Colorado, and Dallas, the West seems wide open.

I think one of the biggest issues facing this team is Couture. At even strength, he brought terrible offense and even worse defense. The Sharks need to figure out if he can play center, let alone be an effective winger moving forward. Otherwise, this team has three holes at center.

This coaching staff better have one hell of a plan moving forward.

Based on little flashes from last season and the hiring of Madden, I'm wondering if/hoping that Boughner plans to implement a trap-heavy system (that works). So, in Tim Burke paleo-Shark terms, going from playing 90s style Sutter bros hockey to playing 90s style evil Devils hockey.

If so, that would seem to fit the (supposed) strengths of the current roster: more speed than before, mobile defensemen that can also move the puck, two-way center types that get offensive chances through their defensive work. Maybe that kind of system caters more to Couture's skillset. Last couple years, it did seem like most of his highlights were off counterattacks.

 

[Gecklund]

We have 4 good top-6 forwards. But, I would not consider any our forwards elite or superstar level. Then there is the question of complementing them with 2 forwards who have certainly not shown that they are top-6 level. Sure, we have 2 of the top-2 offensive D-men in the league but lets not forget that neither of them are defensive stalwarts.

What exactly are we contending for here? A bubble team to make the playoffs? If yes. then I agree. We can certainly make the playoffs. But if you seriously think this is a team that will make a deep push into the playoffs, then you are putting a lot of faith into the kids. And the goal tending to bounce back. And Labanc and Donato to step up and become top-6 forwards. Very much like what DW did last season. And is doing again this season

The huge problem in our top 6 is that our best (only?) semi playmaking player is Labanc.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

The forward group is trash? Frankly a lot of these complaints ignore a number of simple facts... 4x 30 goal scorers in the top 6 isn't trash. More than enough candidates for the bottom 6 to ice a competitive team. That's not even considering the fact that this team has 2 of the best offensive defensemen in the league to help with offense. Does that make them a contender? We won't know until we see how the kids play and how the team looks in the new system. But they aren't bottom of the league. Probably around average right now. If the forward group doesn't lose it's top 2 centers for large portions of the season they are a whole lot more than "marginally improved" from last season. Jury is out on the goaltending. Right now the best or worst you can say is it's 50/50 that the goaltending is worse or better than last year. If they get stats similar to what they produced after BB took over, the team will win more than they lose. So, that doesn't seem like trash to me.

Yes. The forward group is horrible. We have two 2nd lines and two 4th lines.

Kane - Couture - Labanc
Donato - Hertl - Timo

Those are both second lines unless Labanc or Donato can pot 25-30 goals, which is a risky bet to make considering neither of them have ever cracked 20 goals.

Sorenson - Handemark - Nieto
Marleau - Gregor - Noesen

That third line is absolutely terrifying. At best, we can hope Handemark plays as good as Jumbo last year and the third line is a wash from last year. At worst, that can be one of the worst 3rd lines in the league.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

We have 4 good top-6 forwards. But, I would not consider any our forwards elite or superstar level. Then there is the question of complementing them with 2 forwards who have certainly not shown that they are top-6 level. Sure, we have 2 of the top-2 offensive D-men in the league but lets not forget that neither of them are defensive stalwarts.

What exactly are we contending for here? A bubble team to make the playoffs? If yes. then I agree. We can certainly make the playoffs. But if you seriously think this is a team that will make a deep push into the playoffs, then you are putting a lot of faith into the kids. And the goal tending to bounce back. And Labanc and Donato to step up and become top-6 forwards. Very much like what DW did last season. And is doing again this season

Many teams have proven that you don't necessarily need a super star forward. Where did I say we are a contender? Go back and read what I wrote instead of attributing thing to me just so you can argue against them. Yes, I'm saying this team can very likely make the playoffs as is. I would also argue that EK65 when healthy has proven to be pretty good on the defensive end as was already mentioned by another poster. Yes DW has a ton of prospects that should be ready for NHL time very soon. We have no way of knowing how good they will be once acclimated. He's also doing it with another year of progression under their belt. It's like a bunch of you think none of them will ever be ready to play in the NHL. With as many as there are, I don't think it's unreasonable to think 3 will be ready for at least spot duty. To be frank it's not like there are a lot of spots open anyway. 2 or 3 bottom 6 forward spots and a 6 or 7th D? Middleton if healthy will be on the NHL roster. Worst case they use Patty, Noesen(or Gregor) & Nieto on the 3rd line while the rest of the kids get seasoning on the 4th line. Not great but not the end of the world. Burns and EK65 are going to play 25 minutes a night in a new system. I know, all of this is irrational to the chicken little element of the board but Until they get rid of a major contract I'm not seeing this is that bad of a path at the moment. Leaving some cap space gives DW flexibility to keep looking for a trade and means he can bring back an even bigger salary depending on what he sends out. If you think he's done and isn't calling other GMs at this point you're naive.

So we are hoping for magic fairies? Since the top 2 centers we are hoping to be healthy have never shown they can actually stay healthy.

Couture out of his 10 years in the league has played a full or very close to a full season only in 5 of them. So 50% healthy and 50% injured.

Hertl in his 7 seasons in the nhl has only 3 seasons where he has played a full or close to full season. And is already onto his 3rd new knee.

As of right now the 3rd center on the depth chart is not even capable of being a 3rd line center, let alone a top 6 center in the case the annual injury to one of the top 2 centers happens.

And we were just in the bottom 3 in the league just this past season, and that team was just as good as this current is team is just about the same one that was 3rd worst in the league last year.

Every one brings up the injuries as the reason this years team would be better but those said injuries did not happen until long after the sharks were all but considered a bottom 5 team in the league. So nieto, donato and dubnyk are just magically going to make this team drastically better? Highly doubt it.

So... a bunch of this is just stuff you don't actually know yet. As far as being bottom 3... I can't believe we have to rehash this every time. They lost their 1 and 2 center and their #1 defenseman who all were the teams leading scorers at the time of their injuries. I've said repeatedly that this could easily go south but as it stands right now it's not nearly as bad as some of you make it out to be. Sorry if I'm not going to get sucked into your negative chicken little panic dance about the state of the team more than a couple months before they are likely to even report to camp for a season that will likely get canceled anyway unless their is an effective, widely distributed vaccine in place first.

The huge problem in our top 6 is that our best (only?) semi playmaking player is Labanc.

Hertl had just as many assists as Labanc in his career year. Couture had a decent number in the last season and playoff run. They aren't going to have a guy like Jumbo who just piles up assists. It'll be done by committee. I expect Meier to add more as well as he progresses.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Many teams have proven that you don't necessarily need a super star forward. Where did I say we are a contender? Go back and read what I wrote instead of attributing thing to me just so you can argue against them. Yes, I'm saying this team can very likely make the playoffs as is. I would also argue that EK65 when healthy has proven to be pretty good on the defensive end as was already mentioned by another poster. Yes DW has a ton of prospects that should be ready for NHL time very soon. We have no way of knowing how good they will be once acclimated. He's also doing it with another year of progression under their belt. It's like a bunch of you think none of them will ever be ready to play in the NHL. With as many as there are, I don't think it's unreasonable to think 3 will be ready for at least spot duty. To be frank it's not like there are a lot of spots open anyway. 2 or 3 bottom 6 forward spots and a 6 or 7th D? Middleton if healthy will be on the NHL roster. Worst case they use Patty, Noesen(or Gregor) & Nieto on the 3rd line while the rest of the kids get seasoning on the 4th line. Not great but not the end of the world. Burns and EK65 are going to play 25 minutes a night in a new system. I know, all of this is irrational to the chicken little element of the board but Until they get rid of a major contract I'm not seeing this is that bad of a path at the moment. Leaving some cap space gives DW flexibility to keep looking for a trade and means he can bring back an even bigger salary depending on what he sends out. If you think he's done and isn't calling other GMs at this point you're naive.

So... a bunch of this is just stuff you don't actually know yet. As far as being bottom 3... I can't believe we have to rehash this every time. They lost their 1 and 2 center and their #1 defenseman who all were the teams leading scorers at the time of their injuries. I've said repeatedly that this could easily go south but as it stands right now it's not nearly as bad as some of you make it out to be. Sorry if I'm not going to get sucked into your negative chicken little panic dance about the state of the team more than a couple months before they are likely to even report to camp for a season that will likely get canceled anyway unless their is an effective, widely distributed vaccine in place first.

Hertl had just as many assists as Labanc in his career year. Couture had a decent number in the last season and playoff run. They aren't going to have a guy like Jumbo who just piles up assists. It'll be done by committee. I expect Meier to add more as well as he progresses.

Good for you for still having faith in DW. Also, I find it rather amusing that you call me naive for believing that DW is not calling other GM's (which I never stated up there) BUT you believe that he is when he really did not do that last season either. Fool me once ...

You stated that you don't know if this team is a contender or not. Sure, you never stated outright that they are one but that is basically saying that to some point you believe they can be one. I DO NOT. And that is where I disagree with you. Also, I feel like we have some kids that may be ready for bottom-6 duty. Never said that they won't. But this is a weak roster overall. We are forcing two forwards in the top-6, do NOT have a 3rd line center. We have 2 goalies who have been bottom-10 in the league over the last 2 seasons that we are hoping to bounce back as well.

This season is resting on a lot of bounce backs and hope. You may be comfortable and confident about that. A lot of us are not.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Yes. The forward group is horrible. We have two 2nd lines and two 4th lines.

Kane - Couture - Labanc
Donato - Hertl - Timo

Those are both second lines unless Labanc or Donato can pot 25-30 goals, which is a risky bet to make considering neither of them have ever cracked 20 goals.

Sorenson - Handemark - Nieto
Marleau - Gregor - Noesen

That third line is absolutely terrifying. At best, we can hope Handemark plays as good as Jumbo last year and the third line is a wash from last year. At worst, that can be one of the worst 3rd lines in the league.

Feel free to show the teams that had lines that put up 80 goals. I bet it's not many. Your bar to measure success would put them near the top of the league in offense. This team doesn't need to be in the top 5 in offense to make the playoffs. and they don't need to be that high up to be above the level of "trash". You're assessment is ridiculous. Oh look at that, I forgot about Sorenson. He's playing on the 4th line I bet unless he's suddenly turned his career around. Or he's getting sent down and whatever kid outplayed him will be there likely producing more than him. So throwing him on the 3rd line at this point is you making awful lines to try and prove your point. Sorry, not buying it.

This is probably a more realistic look at the bottom 6:

Gregor - Handemark - Nieto
Marleau - Kellman - Noesen

Not great, but not the end of the world. And that's assuming none of the other prospects who are better offensively come into camp and prove they deserve a spot in the NHL. I think there are a number of guys who have the potential to do just that.

 

[Alaskanice]

Boy, hope is a dead idea here.

At times I forget that many of you only know the successes of this team. It tends to fuel the negativity of the posts.

Back in the 92-93 season, the Sharks won 11 games all season and we played 84 back then!! It was dismal. We won only 11 games. There was nothing to truly cheer for except the new arena. It was incredible. The team was still bad but the barn was cool.
Not much to look forward to for 93-94.
Lo and behold we made the playoffs and were a crossbar away from going to the WCF. Our goal scoring leader was Makarov who was nearly 40!!
Try to have some faith. The numbers are not the full answer. There is too much left to chance to determine that our boys, the team we support, can only be awful next season.

Go Sharks!!

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yes. The forward group is horrible. We have two 2nd lines and two 4th lines.

Kane - Couture - Labanc
Donato - Hertl - Timo

Those are both second lines unless Labanc or Donato can pot 25-30 goals, which is a risky bet to make considering neither of them have ever cracked 20 goals.

Sorenson - Handemark - Nieto
Marleau - Gregor - Noesen

That third line is absolutely terrifying. At best, we can hope Handemark plays as good as Jumbo last year and the third line is a wash from last year. At worst, that can be one of the worst 3rd lines in the league.

I don't know if I'd go that far. A Kane-Hertl-Labanc line is a top line, imo. It's not elite or anything but it's a top line because Kane and Hertl are definitely top line players at even strength. Most top lines don't have all top line level players on it in this league. I don't know if I consider Couture a top line player at this point but he would be an elite 2nd line player as he's shown for a long period of time and having Meier at his hip would enhance that. Donato is certainly a wild card that we'll have to wait and see on. I can't really comment on the bottom six yet. I honestly don't know who will win what because it looks like every spot is up in the air to one degree or another. All I know is that there's no way in hell that the team will play Sorensen ahead of Marleau under any circumstance. I have my doubts that Sorensen will even dress most of the time if he's on this team for next season.

However, I agree with the sentiment that there's just too many question marks to have a positive outlook on the upcoming season. I just don't think it's as dire as some might believe. Being a fringe playoff team would be a step up on last season but there's certainly reasons to believe last year could repeat itself considering DW didn't do anywhere near as much thus far to improve the team as the last time we missed. I mean, the team got a new goalie, picked up a top four d-man, and a 2nd/3rd line winger to help out clear depth issues the team had. This year? Donato is no Ward but DW believes he can be top six. We maybe didn't need help on defense but we needed more help up front that wasn't supplied. If you believe goaltending was an issue then you're probably not sold on Dubnyk being the answer to that. The team needs another top six forward or at the very least a middle six forward to help buoy the younger players in case they're not ready but maybe they think Marleau and Nieto can do that.

Personally, I'm more worried about how the team will play defense because while we have a good amount of blue liners, the big ticket guys aren't exactly good defensively right now. Simek is a question mark. Ferraro is solid but not great at it. The forwards aren't exactly great at it either. Hertl and Couture are solid at it but they're not going to be confused with Selke-level defensive quality. Everyone else barely cares about it, imo. And we sure as hell can't expect Jones or Dubnyk to bail them out either so while they play a better system under Boughner than DeBoer defensively, they're still going to bleed a lot of goals with who they have at all positions I think.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Boy, hope is a dead idea here.

At times I forget that many of you only know the successes of this team. It tends to fuel the negativity of the posts.

Back in the 92-93 season, the Sharks won 11 games all season and we played 84 back then!! It was dismal. We won only 11 games. There was nothing to truly cheer for except the new arena. It was incredible. The team was still bad but the barn was cool.
Not much to look forward to for 93-94.
Lo and behold we made the playoffs and were a crossbar away from going to the WCF. Our goal scoring leader was Makarov who was nearly 40!!
Try to have some faith. The numbers are not the full answer. There is too much left to chance to determine that our boys, the team we support, can only be awful next season.

Go Sharks!!

Don't knock people for having higher standards than early expansion seasons when the team at least rhetorically holds themselves to standards closer to those you're lambasting than what you're suggesting they do.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Good for you for still having faith in DW. Also, I find it rather amusing that you call me naive for believing that DW is not calling other GM's (which I never stated up there) BUT you believe that he is when he really did not do that last season either. Fool me once ...

You stated that you don't know if this team is a contender or not. Sure, you never stated outright that they are one but that is basically saying that to some point you believe they can be one. I DO NOT. And that is where I disagree with you. Also, I feel like we have some kids that may be ready for bottom-6 duty. Never said that they won't. But this is a weak roster overall. We are forcing two forwards in the top-6, do NOT have a 3rd line center. We have 2 goalies who have been bottom-10 in the league over the last 2 seasons that we are hoping to bounce back as well.

This season is resting on a lot of bounce backs and hope. You may be comfortable and confident about that. A lot of us are not.

There you go again right after I said not to. No I never said that and never implied it. You're making a straw man argument again. If you want to argue with your self you don't need to reply to my comments to do that. In fact I very clearly said that my pie in the sky prediction was that the Sharks make it further in the playoffs than the leafs. Considering the leafs never get out of the 1st round I'm not predicting much. For the Sharks to actually be contenders where DW adds something at the TDL a whole lot of stuff has to fall perfectly right. Which I never said would happen. I simply believe they have enough to make the playoffs at this point. That's all. That's also considering the dumpster fire the pacific is at the moment.

The team has 3 or 4 candidates for 3rd line center. Patty could even play there temporarily. Until there is a camp you have no way of knowing if any of those guys can play the position. It's just panic and chicken little syndrome. This has very little to do with "faith" in DW. We have a very clear history of how he works. All you guys are just shitting your pants because he didn't add players when you wanted even though he rarely adds that much at this point in the first place. You want to freak? Might be more appropraite when we get a little closer to camp.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Boy, hope is a dead idea here.

At times I forget that many of you only know the successes of this team. It tends to fuel the negativity of the posts.

Back in the 92-93 season, the Sharks won 11 games all season and we played 84 back then!! It was dismal. We won only 11 games. There was nothing to truly cheer for except the new arena. It was incredible. The team was still bad but the barn was cool.
Not much to look forward to for 93-94.
Lo and behold we made the playoffs and were a crossbar away from going to the WCF. Our goal scoring leader was Makarov who was nearly 40!!
Try to have some faith. The numbers are not the full answer. There is too much left to chance to determine that our boys, the team we support, can only be awful next season.

Go Sharks!!

This.

The fights were awesome in the record setting losing season. The missing link was a force of nature in the first season. You have your seasons mixed up though. First season in the Tank was the year they upset the Redwings. I think they finished with like 33-33-16

A bunch of you must be too young to remember a team that iced Nolan, Ricci (a 3rd liner at this point) and Dave freaking Lowry on their #1 line and upset the presidents trophy winning Blues. So when you guys come at me with all this talk that you KNOW what this team is going to do and it's all going to be bad, you just sound like you're new to this sport frankly. This isn't basketball.

 

[weastern bias]

The forward group is trash? Frankly a lot of these complaints ignore a number of simple facts... 4x 30 goal scorers in the top 6 isn't trash.

I can't get behind this characterization of our big 4 forwards

Of these "4x 30 goal scorers":

One of them has scored 30+ 3 times in 11 seasons

One of them has scored 30+ 2 times in 11 seasons

One of them has scored 30+ 1 time in 7 seasons

One of them has scored 30+ 1 time in 4 seasons

Plugging in those as raw probabilities there is a .025% chance that all 4 of them score 30 goals in the same season, all things being equal

These guys are not consistent 30 goal scorers to the degree that I would say we have "4x 30 goal scorers", I think that is an overly optimistic assessment that requires all 4 of them to perform at or near their career best output

I do think some of the worries about our top-6 may be overstated if one of Labanc or Donato performs above expectations and we finally get a full year of Karlsson playing up to his deal, but I don't think we need to overstate the talent in the top-6 either

 

[Barrie22]

Many teams have proven that you don't necessarily need a super star forward. Where did I say we are a contender? Go back and read what I wrote instead of attributing thing to me just so you can argue against them. Yes, I'm saying this team can very likely make the playoffs as is. I would also argue that EK65 when healthy has proven to be pretty good on the defensive end as was already mentioned by another poster. Yes DW has a ton of prospects that should be ready for NHL time very soon. We have no way of knowing how good they will be once acclimated. He's also doing it with another year of progression under their belt. It's like a bunch of you think none of them will ever be ready to play in the NHL. With as many as there are, I don't think it's unreasonable to think 3 will be ready for at least spot duty. To be frank it's not like there are a lot of spots open anyway. 2 or 3 bottom 6 forward spots and a 6 or 7th D? Middleton if healthy will be on the NHL roster. Worst case they use Patty, Noesen(or Gregor) & Nieto on the 3rd line while the rest of the kids get seasoning on the 4th line. Not great but not the end of the world. Burns and EK65 are going to play 25 minutes a night in a new system. I know, all of this is irrational to the chicken little element of the board but Until they get rid of a major contract I'm not seeing this is that bad of a path at the moment. Leaving some cap space gives DW flexibility to keep looking for a trade and means he can bring back an even bigger salary depending on what he sends out. If you think he's done and isn't calling other GMs at this point you're naive.

So... a bunch of this is just stuff you don't actually know yet. As far as being bottom 3... I can't believe we have to rehash this every time. They lost their 1 and 2 center and their #1 defenseman who all were the teams leading scorers at the time of their injuries. I've said repeatedly that this could easily go south but as it stands right now it's not nearly as bad as some of you make it out to be. Sorry if I'm not going to get sucked into your negative chicken little panic dance about the state of the team more than a couple months before they are likely to even report to camp for a season that will likely get canceled anyway unless their is an effective, widely distributed vaccine in place first.

Hertl had just as many assists as Labanc in his career year. Couture had a decent number in the last season and playoff run. They aren't going to have a guy like Jumbo who just piles up assists. It'll be done by committee. I expect Meier to add more as well as he progresses.

And as i said in my post about the hertl, couture, karlsson injuries. They all happened long after the sharks were dead in the water. When the sharks were already fighting for the 2nd worst record in the league.

So the sharks could not win with those 3 players on the roster and healthy last season. But that magically goes away this season for some reason?

 

[Levie]

Do we think there will be fans in games next year? Seems likely that it will be at something like 30-50% capacity. Plattner and DW may be happy having our tank year happen in this climate

 

[hohosaregood]

I can't get behind this characterization of our big 4 forwards

Of these "4x 30 goal scorers":

One of them has scored 30+ 3 times in 11 seasons

One of them has scored 30+ 2 times in 11 seasons

One of them has scored 30+ 1 time in 7 seasons

One of them has scored 30+ 1 time in 4 seasons

Plugging in those as raw probabilities there is a .025% chance that all 4 of them score 30 goals in the same season, all things being equal

These guys are not consistent 30 goal scorers to the degree that I would say we have "4x 30 goal scorers", I think that is an overly optimistic assessment that requires all 4 of them to perform at or near their career best output

I do think some of the worries about our top-6 may be overstated if one of Labanc or Donato performs above expectations and we finally get a full year of Karlsson playing up to his deal, but I don't think we need to overstate the talent in the top-6 either

None of them are particularly good playmakers either. Only Couture's hit 40 assists before. So no high end goal scorers and no high end playmakers. Not really sure what we have at this point. I guess 25/25 is a reasonable expectation from the 4 of them.