Boston Bruins 2020-2021 Roster Discussion IV - STAY ON TOPIC

[The don godfather]

Zboril is gonna be a beast and prove himself. Book it.

 

[Fenian24]

Keith has been on the decline awhile now. He's still a decent D-man, but he's not going to "extend our window" or any such foolishness while he approaches 40 years old. The guy by my account has played more minutes than any player in hockey since the 05 lockout if you start counting playoffs, international, etc. He may be a fitness freak like Chara but the wear and tear adds up.

Let's see what we have in Lauzon/Zboril/Gryz/etc. can do before going out and hedging their bets on an older declining player.

This is fine if they were rebuilding, instead this team has the classic Sinden feel to it.

Middle of the pack, make the playoffs because they are better than 7-8 teams they will feast on, lose to the real contenders and win enough with the rest of their middle of the pack contemporaries to make the playoffs and lose in round 1.

Zboril has had years to show something, all he has shown is he is the defenseman version of Senyshyn. Vaak has regressed and I don't see much of a future for him based on this year. Lauzon has the makings of a great 3rd pair D.

You don't enter a season with this D intending to contend and Sweeney has shown his inability to make adjustments on the fly.

 

[Blowfish]

I have zero fear in our d right now! McAvoy Carlo as the core to our #1-2 defence pairings. They both will log 22-24 minutes a night. Lauzon i feel is a great partner for McAvoy. Stay at home guy, size, toughness, simple game. Gryzz with Carlo will be an upgrade 5on5 vs Krug. Then we got Zboril, Moore, Miller, Clifton, Vaak, and maybe Chara. We just won the Jennings with Krug in the top 4 and a 42 year old Chara on our top pair. Little faith here folks

This is what in boils down to for this fan...I just hope the bruin brass have learned from their mistakes.

There's a good reason the hawks are offloading big oldman contracts.

 

[Blowfish]

Backes = PWF who was over 30 at time of contract. Had a good year, got hurt and began to fall off. Old age and wear played a huge factor as well. Terrible move.


To me, you didn’t provide much of a counterpoint with these players.

IMO my counterpoints were well deserved as all the players I listed smelled like the right thing to do at the time but for many fans ... they were questionable decisions/players due to age, cost, new era NHL, and/or fit with the bruins. Keith would fall in that class.

I hope Sweeney/Neely don't fall for this yet again....

 

[Blowfish]

Oh, and there was nothing wrong with Martin Lapointe, he did what he was suppose to here. Just because JJ wanted to "get even" with Illitch because another owner told him what a terrible owner he was and he overpaid for Lapointe in a non cap league wasn't the players fault.

He was $5 million for babysitting Bergeron. That's it.

 

[Fenian24]

He was $5 million for babysitting Bergeron. That's it.

You're wrong. But that is OK. You really should just watch high school hockey, seems to be the age range of players you like. Maybe change your name to Logan's Run.

 

[BruinDust]

This is fine if they were rebuilding, instead this team has the classic Sinden feel to it.

Middle of the pack, make the playoffs because they are better than 7-8 teams they will feast on, lose to the real contenders and win enough with the rest of their middle of the pack contemporaries to make the playoffs and lose in round 1.

Zboril has had years to show something, all he has shown is he is the defenseman version of Senyshyn. Vaak has regressed and I don't see much of a future for him based on this year. Lauzon has the makings of a great 3rd pair D.

You don't enter a season with this D intending to contend and Sweeney has shown his inability to make adjustments on the fly.

I guess we'll see. I'm OK with it because I don't believe the solution to improving the D right here today is out there available. I wanted them to go after Dillon as a UFA but he never got there. I thought Schmidt would of been a great target but I'm not sure they were ever even in on that.

I don't get the who "intending on contending" stuff. I'm not even a Sweeney fan but most GMs are trying to ice the best roster they can. I would wager most GMs have more faith in the guys in their system then the fans do. I don't really care what the roster on paper looks like at the start of the year, I'm much more concerned with the end. 2016-17 the right-side of the D looked pretty dire and by the end we had McAvoy, Carlo, and the debate was on over which Miller to keep. Sweeney has spent considerable time, effort, money and assets to stockpile a bunch of young D-men, at some point you have to see what they have or else what is the point of using all that time/money/etc to draft and develop them?

Things change in today's NHL awfully fast, we see that teams rise and fall and rise again in fairly short periods of time. I think the days of 5-6 year rebuilds are over, and if it takes you 5-6 years to rebuild a team, you are doing it wrong. I think most teams in a cap system are trying to maintain competitiveness, and when you get closer to the deadline, then determine where you stand between being a pretender or contender. If you can make that determination earlier in the season and make a move earlier great. One criticism I have of Sweeney is like you said inability to make adjustments on the fly or make deals mid-season, even small deals, that can give your team a boost.

 

[JOKER 192]

As opposed to Grizz?

Neither , would be best.

 

[JOKER 192]

He plays 24 mins a night in every situation and puts up 40pts per season on average. Add in the experience, the cups. That's more than a solid #2. The guy still skates like he's 24 out there. Don't take it from me. It was Jeff Marek, Anthony Stewart, Emily Kaplan of Sportsnet radio all in a agreement.

Chara was our #2 with far less output and we got to game 7. So, forgive me if I do not kiss my own ass.

As for "not helping CHI" - if you get a #2D for a good value cap hit and reasonable term and its a player who can makes the B's better...I do it. Clearly you don't like Keith...that's your prerogative. But, I would say you are letting your bias cloud your vision. The guy is still very, very good.

With all due respect to Jeff Marek, Anthony Stewart, Emily Kaplan of Sportsnet, I hold out for better options. Can we look for a more permanent fix rather than a year or two before we have to fix it again.

 

[JOKER 192]

At least get the name right. It was Martin, Not Guy Lapointe....

No he meant Guy.

 

[Son of Donegal]

Keith has been on the decline awhile now. He's still a decent D-man, but he's not going to "extend our window" or any such foolishness while he approaches 40 years old. The guy by my account has played more minutes than any player in hockey since the 05 lockout if you start counting playoffs, international, etc. He may be a fitness freak like Chara but the wear and tear adds up.

Let's see what we have in Lauzon/Zboril/Gryz/etc. can do before going out and hedging their bets on an older declining player.

This is a primary point that I failed to mention in my OP. Firstly, Keith is not currently open to waiving his NMC anyways, but if CHI comes out and sucks, he might be open to moving. Secondly, during that trial period, the Bruins kids will be getting heavy reps.

If they flourish or show improvement as time goes on, they probably stand pat. But, if they do not impress, Keith is a guy you can literally plug and play.

As for the "window" no one has suggested that Keith would be a savior, but there probably isn't a single other D in BOS organization that can give you what Keith can give you. As for the decline, look at who Keith has had to babysit over the past 3 seasons - Jordan Oesterle, Brent Seabrook, 19 year old Adam Boqvist, Jan Rutta, Erik Gustafsson. Sure, he has lost a step, but the biggest issue has been poor coaching/system and poor team make-up.

 

[PlayMakers]

This is a primary point that I failed to mention in my OP. Firstly, Keith is not currently open to waiving his NMC anyways, but if CHI comes out and sucks, he might be open to moving. Secondly, during that trial period, the Bruins kids will be getting heavy reps.

If they flourish or show improvement as time goes on, they probably stand pat. But, if they do not impress, Keith is a guy you can literally plug and play.

The problem I have with the "let's see how the kids do" approach is that if it doesn't work out then we're back to giving up futures at the deadline for a problem we could have solved in the off-season. Top4 D are getting traded for 3rd round picks this summer, but it will cost a 1st+ at the deadline. With the age of this core, I really hate the idea of dealing away more 1st's and futures.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

The problem I have with the "let's see how the kids do" approach is that if it doesn't work out then we're back to giving up futures at the deadline for a problem we could have solved in the off-season. Top4 D are getting traded for 3rd round picks this summer, but it will cost a 1st+ at the deadline. With the age of this core, I really hate the idea of dealing away more 1st's and futures.

The longer it goes, the more I expect it to look like this:

Grzelcyk — McAvoy
Chara — Carlo
Lauzon — Clifton
Zboril/Miller

Not really going with the kids, but more of the same..... half in, half our approach with no real direction.

 

[Blowfish]

You're wrong. But that is OK. You really should just watch high school hockey, seems to be the age range of players you like. Maybe change your name to Logan's Run.

Okie Dokie rock em sock em stuck in 70s Cherry Fen.

$5 million waste of space. Terrible player for the bruins.

 

[TCB]

The problem I have with the "let's see how the kids do" approach is that if it doesn't work out then we're back to giving up futures at the deadline for a problem we could have solved in the off-season. Top4 D are getting traded for 3rd round picks this summer, but it will cost a 1st+ at the deadline. With the age of this core, I really hate the idea of dealing away more 1st's and futures.

I'd really like to see them move Krejci for futures.

 

[Fenian24]

I guess we'll see. I'm OK with it because I don't believe the solution to improving the D right here today is out there available. I wanted them to go after Dillon as a UFA but he never got there. I thought Schmidt would of been a great target but I'm not sure they were ever even in on that.

I don't get the who "intending on contending" stuff. I'm not even a Sweeney fan but most GMs are trying to ice the best roster they can. I would wager most GMs have more faith in the guys in their system then the fans do. I don't really care what the roster on paper looks like at the start of the year, I'm much more concerned with the end. 2016-17 the right-side of the D looked pretty dire and by the end we had McAvoy, Carlo, and the debate was on over which Miller to keep. Sweeney has spent considerable time, effort, money and assets to stockpile a bunch of young D-men, at some point you have to see what they have or else what is the point of using all that time/money/etc to draft and develop them?

Things change in today's NHL awfully fast, we see that teams rise and fall and rise again in fairly short periods of time. I think the days of 5-6 year rebuilds are over, and if it takes you 5-6 years to rebuild a team, you are doing it wrong. I think most teams in a cap system are trying to maintain competitiveness, and when you get closer to the deadline, then determine where you stand between being a pretender or contender. If you can make that determination earlier in the season and make a move earlier great. One criticism I have of Sweeney is like you said inability to make adjustments on the fly or make deals mid-season, even small deals, that can give your team a boost.

I wanted Dillon as well. He would have been a great top 4 and solidified the D if they brought Chara back. Then you can start to.work some of the younger D in and not resign Miller.

Interesting how few people even have Sweeney's last big free agent signing Moore in their top 9 D. What a waste of almost 3 million in cap space.

 

[BruinDust]

I wanted Dillon as well. He would have been a great top 4 and solidified the D if they brought Chara back. Then you can start to.work some of the younger D in and not resign Miller.

Interesting how few people even have Sweeney's last big free agent signing Moore in their top 9 D. What a waste of almost 3 million in cap space.[/QUOTE]

While I'd rather have a do-over on that signing (I generally like to avoid middling players like Moore in UFA, one reason I wasn't a fan of giving Smith 3-years), right now as it stands John Moore is your 2nd pair LD. Him and Gryz are in the top two LD spots right here today, it's their jobs to lose to the likes of Lauzon and Zboril, not the other way around.

 

[BruinDust]

If you show me a huge difference between gryz, lauzon, zboril, clifton i might worry which one seattle will take

Sadly we are going to lose some young guy who has a future as a lower tier 4th dman

We will still have a few left to fill our roster... it will be fine. Depth dmen is not a shortage here

Filling our open top 3 slot for a couple years while we cross our fingers for a kid to dvelop is a need

We are trying to extend our window now... we will be in rebuild in 3 seasons... worrying about a mid pair dman then is no reason to deny a top pair dman now

And why is that? The Bruins have the reigning Rocket Richard trophy winner and he's still just 24. They have one of the Top 10 young D-men in the game in 22-year old McAvoy. Your the one who keeps telling us how great Sweeney and Co. have been at drafting.

 

[Riley 88]

I have zero fear in our d right now! McAvoy Carlo as the core to our #1-2 defence pairings. They both will log 22-24 minutes a night. Lauzon i feel is a great partner for McAvoy. Stay at home guy, size, toughness, simple game. Gryzz with Carlo will be an upgrade 5on5 vs Krug. Then we got Zboril, Moore, Miller, Clifton, Vaak, and maybe Chara. We just won the Jennings with Krug in the top 4 and a 42 year old Chara on our top pair. Little faith here folks

This is painting a rose picture....But this Defense is far from Rosy....

McAvoy is a 1......We need a 2.

Carlo is a 3.....We need a 4.........

Louzan and Gryz can be 5-6..........Neither guy is a top 4 Dman. Someday maybe Louzan can be that. Gryz will never be a top 4 Dman.

God forbid McAvoy gets hurt.....

Zboril, Vaak, Clifton, Moore, Miller....Chara....are all 4-5-6-7 guys....Maybe Vaak turns into a 3-4 Guy.

McAvoy...1
Carlo......3
Louzan 5
GRYZ.....5
Vaak.....Hope he can be a 4
Zboril..5-6 guy
Moore....6...7 Guy
Clifton......5-6-7 guy
Miller.....5-6-7 guy

Chara......5-6-7 guy........................We need a 2 and a 4 or a 3 so Carlo can be a 4....................Lets get a number 2.......Or a number 1 like the guy from the Coyotes OEL or whatever it is.....Then everyone gets pushed down.

No question if a deal can be made for him. It must get done. Hate to put Vaak in the deal cause hoping he is a top 4 guy. But with Chara pysical game gone....We need a big tough top four guy....

 

[JOKER 192]

This is fine if they were rebuilding, instead this team has the classic Sinden feel to it.

Middle of the pack, make the playoffs because they are better than 7-8 teams they will feast on, lose to the real contenders and win enough with the rest of their middle of the pack contemporaries to make the playoffs and lose in round 1.

Zboril has had years to show something, all he has shown is he is the defenseman version of Senyshyn. Vaak has regressed and I don't see much of a future for him based on this year. Lauzon has the makings of a great 3rd pair D.

You don't enter a season with this D intending to contend and Sweeney has shown his inability to make adjustments on the fly.

You may or may not be right about all of this but Keith is not the answer.

 

[BruinDust]

Gryz will never be a top 4 Dman.

Well I can pretty much assure you Sweeney didn't decide to hand Gryz 15 million dollars over the next 4 years to be a No.5 guy or 3rd pairing D-man. Whether you agree with it or not, management believe he's a guy who can perform on one of the top 2 pairings.

 

[Fenian24]

You may or may not be right about all of this but Keith is not the answer.

You're right but he is an upgrade over what they have which really goes back to why aren't they starting a rebuild/retool and moving on from Krejci, who they could still get a decent return on? Why are they resigning Miller as a stop gap? Why sign Craig Smith instead of letting the younger forwards play?

Keith for 3 years at 5.5 or Griz for 4 years at 3.6. Keith, to me and I didn't watch a lot of Chicago games last year, is better than a number 5 D in Griz. That Griz contract will look like Moore's in a couple years.

If you are going to try and play a defense with 4 question marks on it do the same at forward. Play Zboril, Vaak, Lauzon, Clifton see what you have but don't sign a 31 year old forward if you have an AHL defense that you need to figure out, after using first round picks on Vaak and Zboril 3 and 5 years after their drafts, if any of them can play in the NHL. Vaak and Zboril have not shown that yet. Give Kase top minutes instead of Smith, give Studnicka third line time and move Coyle to the second line. If you are going to gamble on the kids go all in, don't do this half ***** try to be a tweener and hope garbage.

If the young D can play and they were right about Kase, Bjork, Frederic, Studnicka and Ritchie play them and figure out at the deadline if you want to add for a real playoff run. If Studnicka is a calder candidate, if Kase is on a 20 goal pace, Ritchie is on a 40 points pace and paying the physical game he was suppose to play, Frederic has developed into a dollar store Tom Wilson then you should be in a position to decide if you want to add. Instead you have a 20 goal serviceable player in Smith keeping Kase from top minutes, Krejci moving Studnicka to wing when he should be learning to play center because this team as currently put together is a bubble playoff team that will get murdered by whoever they play in the first round.

One or the other, not finish 14th in the league and hope for some playoff money for Monty Burns.

 

[Fenian24]

Well I can pretty much assure you Sweeney didn't decide to hand Gryz 15 million dollars over the next 4 years to be a No.5 guy or 3rd pairing D-man. Whether you agree with it or not, management believe he's a guy who can perform on one of the top 2 pairings.

And management thought Zach Senyshyn was going to be a better player than Matt Barzal and John Moore was worth 3 million dollars for 6 years and Matt Belesky was a going to replace Milan Lucic and they don't need a RW for Krejci and..oh you get the idea.

 

[JOKER 192]

You're right but he is an upgrade over what they have which really goes back to why aren't they starting a rebuild/retool and moving on from Krejci, who they could still get a decent return on? Why are they resigning Miller as a stop gap? Why sign Craig Smith instead of letting the younger forwards play?

Keith for 3 years at 5.5 or Griz for 4 years at 3.6. Keith, to me and I didn't watch a lot of Chicago games last year, is better than a number 5 D in Griz. That Griz contract will look like Moore's in a couple years.

If you are going to try and play a defense with 4 question marks on it do the same at forward. Play Zboril, Vaak, Lauzon, Clifton see what you have but don't sign a 31 year old forward if you have an AHL defense that you need to figure out, after using first round picks on Vaak and Zboril 3 and 5 years after their drafts, if any of them can play in the NHL. Vaak and Zboril have not shown that yet. Give Kase top minutes instead of Smith, give Studnicka third line time and move Coyle to the second line. If you are going to gamble on the kids go all in, don't do this half ***** try to be a tweener and hope garbage.

If the young D can play and they were right about Kase, Bjork, Frederic, Studnicka and Ritchie play them and figure out at the deadline if you want to add for a real playoff run. If Studnicka is a calder candidate, if Kase is on a 20 goal pace, Ritchie is on a 40 points pace and paying the physical game he was suppose to play, Frederic has developed into a dollar store Tom Wilson then you should be in a position to decide if you want to add. Instead you have a 20 goal serviceable player in Smith keeping Kase from top minutes, Krejci moving Studnicka to wing when he should be learning to play center because this team as currently put together is a bubble playoff team that will get murdered by whoever they play in the first round.

One or the other, not finish 14th in the league and hope for some playoff money for Monty Burns.

Or maybe they could just get a #2 D who isn't about to watch the game pass him by.

 

[analyser]

Should the Ducks decide to to go for a rebuild then I would try and acquire Hampus Lindholm whom I believe could really help.

He shoots left, has decent size and can contribute offensively.