Nailed it. He was given significant time with top centers here. I hope it works out for him, but I wouldn't count on it working much better in Pittsburgh.
Prospect Info: 2020 1st Rd Selection - #15 OA - LW Rodion Amirov (RUS) - 6'0", 177lbs Part II
- Thread starter Stephen
- Start date
Yea I give him a week with Crosby or Malkin tops. He doesn't see the ice well enough for those guys and the bad angle shots will drive them nuts.
Warden of the North
Ned Stark's head
Justin Bourne had a great quote that I wish I could find. It perfectly encapsulated Kapanen. It was something like "He doesnt use his linemates AT ALL, so you might as well just put him on the third line and hope his speed burns a bottom pair defenseman.
Warden of the North
Ned Stark's head
He'll just blow down the wing and shoot it into the goalies chest at about the same point Crosby or Malkin is crossing the red line.
Halandar was a top prospect for the Pens. If you analyze him as a prospect he's trending even better than Kapanen was, yet you're saying he's nothing special. On top of that, Am,irov looks like a stud.
Sorry, but that package is a heck of a lot for a 3rd liner with 1 40 point season. It just is.
And Schmdit looks like a great trade for Vancouver, only because Vegas handled that AP contract situation very badly. They got screwed by other teams who knew they were desperate to move cap.
Kapanen's problem is he looks so talented and elite when skating, yet completely lacks finish. He WAS given plenty of chances on the 1st line with elite centres.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Gotta love some of Leaf nation. Kappy signs and it is a great deal by Dubas. Kappy is moved and it is a great deal by Dubas because he cleared that cap space and Kappy is this and Kappy is that and Kappy will always be a 3rd liner with little IQ. Personally I liked Kappy and hope he does well this year but it was time to move him so I have no issues with the trade but I think we are going to miss him more than some of us think.
It makes more sense moving a Kapanen and being pleased with it rather than the insane "Trade Mitch Marner and William Nylander" takes.
Kapanen is a supporting player. NOt a core piece.
Man, Amirov looks so composed and dynamic with the puck on his stick. He looks like he was born with it there. Elusive, smart, high motor, wicked shot, he looks like the real deal. Can't wait to see how he stacks up at the WJC. I'm totally fine if he signs for two more years in Russia.
For what it's worth, I think Kapanen has been handled fantastically by the Leafs org from start to finish. He was brought along slowly, spending two and a half years on the Marlies, getting a few tastes of NHL action until he was ready for full time. No rushing, just rock solid prospect development. He cut his teeth on the lower lines and then was pushed higher into the lineup as he earned minutes, found to not fit there and then largely settled in as the impact third liner that he plays best as. He proved himself a good player, got a good contract, and then when the pinch got too tight was sold for a sky-high price. Really, if there's a player that we can point at and say, "we should do that with our guys" it's Kapanen. Leaving the GM out of it entirely, I think Kappy was treated extremely well by the org and ended up rewarding us handsomely in the end.
And I absolutely think we're going to miss him. Maybe we'll get him back some day and he'll score some more golden goals for us.
I don't think those are opposing narratives. Kappy's contract was a great deal. $3.5m is a good contract for a 20 goal scoring 3rd liner who's terrific on the PK and has a knack for clutch goals. Sure, the shine came off him this year and we stopped hoping for more, hence the "always a 3rd liner" comments, but the contract was still good value for the player he actually is.
For what it's worth, I think Kapanen has been handled fantastically by the Leafs org from start to finish. He was brought along slowly, spending two and a half years on the Marlies, getting a few tastes of NHL action until he was ready for full time. No rushing, just rock solid prospect development. He cut his teeth on the lower lines and then was pushed higher into the lineup as he earned minutes, found to not fit there and then largely settled in as the impact third liner that he plays best as. He proved himself a good player, got a good contract, and then when the pinch got too tight was sold for a sky-high price. Really, if there's a player that we can point at and say, "we should do that with our guys" it's Kapanen. Leaving the GM out of it entirely, I think Kappy was treated extremely well by the org and ended up rewarding us handsomely in the end.
And I absolutely think we're going to miss him. Maybe we'll get him back some day and he'll score some more golden goals for us.
Isaac Nootin
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Being a top prospect for the Pens (think they had him #5) is not saying much when you consider their prospect pool is a complete disaster, and possibly at the very bottom of the entire league.
TheKrebsCycle
Throwing Confetti for Perfetti
I believe I read that he would have been ranked 2nd if not for his injury . But your point about their weak pipeline is legit
Rielly4
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- Dec 12, 2012
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Not gonna lie didnt know much about the kid when he was drafted but now its clear to me hes a homerun pick. Tarasenko went around 15 as well and i think this kid could be that good. Hes a different style but his hands look very smooth and hes a terrific skater with good size. Hes very under control with the puck and good without it...He can shoot and pass i think he ends up being a top 6 winger as soon as he gets to the league.
Isaac Nootin
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Possibly.
However, even our rankings here on the Leafs board (he's at #6) I don't agree with. Personally I'd have him at #9, behind Hirvonen, Anderson and possibly Korshkov.
That doesn't mean I don't like the trade, I do, I just fail to see the upside of Hallander at the moment.
TheKrebsCycle
Throwing Confetti for Perfetti
Id have him behind Hirvonen but ahead of the other 2. Upside plus the fact he could be a centre weighing in his favor.
Amirov signing a 2 year contract in Russia is a no brainer. I'm sure within that contract there will be an out clause if he were to make the Leafs which I think will be sooner than later.
stickty111
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- Jan 23, 2017
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Dubas hit a homerun with this trade and draft pick. Getting Hallander who should be a nice supporting piece on this team is good, and getting a big piece like Amirov is just fantastic work.
The trade of the off season by Dubas.
The trade of the off season by Dubas.
I understand that. Pens prospect pool is horible. The previous best first rounder they had picked was Kapanen himself. That said, he's still decent and trending like Kapanen was as prospect. And he's not the main piece anyways, it's obviously Amirov.
Isaac Nootin
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I don't think he's trending all that similar to Kapanen. At this point of Kaps development, he went PPG in the AHL and made his NHL debut.
While points aren't everything, and it won't be Hallanders calling card, he's trended downwards in the SHL for going on 2 years now. Not something you like to see considering how familiar he is with the league at this point.
Morgs
#16 #34 #44 #88 #91
I truly think people overrate Kapanen because of his skating being so elite, they think "there HAS to be more there" when in reality he was given every opportunity. It's rumoured both Tavares & Matthews both requested not to play with him, and it's really hard to blame them with his horrible vision and passing.
Production-wise it will be hard to replace a guy that can put up 40 points on the 3rd line, don't get me wrong. His impact though was barely above average in 2018-19 (+ driving offense, - defensive play), and actually quite horrible in 2019-20 (-- offense, -- defense), and really the 2018-19 season looks more like "best case scenario" than "likely outcome" going forward. I doubt he'll be as bad he was this past season, but I think Dubas sold him at the right time, regardless of how much I like him and believe there is something more with him.
To put how bad his season was into context, of the 157 forwards to play 800 5v5 minutes last season his overall rel.xG/60 impact ranked..... 155th. His closest comparables?
Evgeny Kuznetsov (guy always has horrible impacts, but strong production)
Dustin Brown
Miles Wood
Chris Kreider (only negative impact season of his ENTIRE career, I was shocked to see him even close to here)
If you want to expand the search to 500 minutes there are 329 forwards involved, he ranks 312th. The closest guys are:
Frederick Gauthier, Robby Fabbri, Melker Karlsson, Dillon Dube, Jay Beagle, Kyle Turris, Luke Kunin, Nate Thompson, Sean Kuraly, Dustin Brown, Michael Dal Cole.
I'm sad to see Kapanen go as he was one of my favourites, but I'm pretty confident we'll get better play out of 41 year old Thornton, or Vesey, or even Simmonds.
The deal Dubas got for him even taking into his potential to bounce back I think was pretty much a steal. Hallander is absolutely crushing the SHL but the production hasn't come this season, and Amirov is looking like his floor (at least imo) is Kapanen.
Production-wise it will be hard to replace a guy that can put up 40 points on the 3rd line, don't get me wrong. His impact though was barely above average in 2018-19 (+ driving offense, - defensive play), and actually quite horrible in 2019-20 (-- offense, -- defense), and really the 2018-19 season looks more like "best case scenario" than "likely outcome" going forward. I doubt he'll be as bad he was this past season, but I think Dubas sold him at the right time, regardless of how much I like him and believe there is something more with him.
To put how bad his season was into context, of the 157 forwards to play 800 5v5 minutes last season his overall rel.xG/60 impact ranked..... 155th. His closest comparables?
Evgeny Kuznetsov (guy always has horrible impacts, but strong production)
Dustin Brown
Miles Wood
Chris Kreider (only negative impact season of his ENTIRE career, I was shocked to see him even close to here)
If you want to expand the search to 500 minutes there are 329 forwards involved, he ranks 312th. The closest guys are:
Frederick Gauthier, Robby Fabbri, Melker Karlsson, Dillon Dube, Jay Beagle, Kyle Turris, Luke Kunin, Nate Thompson, Sean Kuraly, Dustin Brown, Michael Dal Cole.
I'm sad to see Kapanen go as he was one of my favourites, but I'm pretty confident we'll get better play out of 41 year old Thornton, or Vesey, or even Simmonds.
The deal Dubas got for him even taking into his potential to bounce back I think was pretty much a steal. Hallander is absolutely crushing the SHL but the production hasn't come this season, and Amirov is looking like his floor (at least imo) is Kapanen.
Oscar Peterson
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Can you explain how he is absolutely crushing the SHL when his production looks so terrible???
Morgs
#16 #34 #44 #88 #91
| Filip Hallander (19) | Total |
| GP | 27 |
| Points | 14 |
| rel.CF% | 4.5% |
| rel.FF% | 4.5% |
| ATOI | 15:50 |
| OZS | - |
| oiSH% | 10.8% |
| Filip Hallander (20) | Total |
| GP | 15 |
| Points | 6 |
| rel.CF% | 6.6% |
| rel.FF% | 4.0% |
| ATOI | 15:49 |
| OZS | - |
| oiSH% | 7.1% |
Oscar Peterson
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- Jun 27, 2015
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At the end of the day though, NHL calibre prospects tend to be good in their leagues that their talent level does manifest in production. And even if he matched his production from last year it wouldn't be impressive because at his age, we should be expecting an upwards trend. Having a 6.6% rel CF in an inferior league is not enough to say a prospect is crushing it, or that he's a guaranteed NHLer at WORST (most prospects never make the show). Now, for the sake of our team, I hope you're right.
I don't think many people actually have high expectations for Hallander. Ideally he can become a good 3rd line center for us, which doesn't necessarily mean he needs to be crushing the SHL as a 20 year old...
Morgs
#16 #34 #44 #88 #91
I just don't think production is the be all end all at the end of the day. Production is nice, and it's something we expect from prospects we believe will make the NHL, but I think it doesn't take anything into context, especially with a guy like Hallander:
a) He's on a good team playing the 6th most minutes for forwards/game and 8th most PP minutes/game including defenseman. He doesn't play on the top-PP unit which will hurt anybody's overall production.
b) His team is fairly low scoring as is. The most points on the team are two defenseman that lead the team with a 0.87 ppg and 0.75 ppg. After watching a bunch of games you can see there is no "star" player like there is on Leksand or Skelleftea that is carrying the other players production.
c) his play driving is very good. He's on the 6th best CF% and 7th best FF% team. He's leading his entire team in CF% and 4th in FF%. When he's on the ice the puck goes the right direction consistently. Arguably a better play driver than anybody else on a playoff team in the SHL.
d) he's 20. I'd be far more worried about his future in NA if he was an empty calorie scorer (putting up points, horrible at driving play) than what he is now because it's clear Dubas is attempting to get rid of those types (Kapanen/Johnsson) and keeping the latter (Engvall). The production will definitely affect his overall ceiling, but even now his 6 points rank him 96th among forwards in the SHL. If you subscribe to the fact each team has three 1st line players, three 2nd line players, etc his production would be considered "2nd line".
EDIT: 3rd line production lmao.
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Leafs fans like me did say all that. Kappy had shown potential. So leafs fans were raving about him. He's still a solid player but not the player Leafs need anymore.
We have plenty of skaters, we needed to clear cap and add size
Kappy was given every opportunity to succeed. Played with Matthews, Tavares, PP and PK
The Missing Piece
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- Sep 19, 2012
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This thread is for Rodion Amirov I had to check to see if I clicked the wrong link.
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