2019 Stanley Cup Playoffs Discussion Thread

[raymond23]

Great, now we're gonna start reviewing major penalties. And soon it will be every penalty.

I understand the idea of getting calls right, it 100% makes sense. But for some reason I just cannot get behind this video-review nonsense.

 

[obey86]

Aren't the Wings capped out? We're gonna have stuff coming off the books but we're crunched right now because of a load of awful contracts like Abby, Ericsson, Nielsen, Helm.

Toronto is crunched because they have too many young all-star forwards...

I can't say I wouldn't rather be in their position. I'd rather have the talent and have to pick and choose which ones to keep and which ones to trade away instead of trying desperately to find a Tavares, Matthews, Marner level talent. I mean hell, their 3C had back to back 30 goal seasons. We just had our first 30 goal scorers in years this season.

No. The Wings will have ~20M to spend in free agency this offseason to fill like 3-4 roster spots if they so choose to do so. I mean, I hope they don't spend that and I doubt they will, but they are far from capped out moving forward. The worst is definitely behind them.

The Leafs missed their best window to win a championship, when their best players were cheap and on entry level contracts. They are a 1st round playoff team with their best players making big money. As I said in a subsequent post, they could certainly win moving forward, it's just going to be harder with their best players making big money and having a very weak defense and no real avenues to improve that defense moving forward. There's a decent chance that 3C/30 goal scorer is going to be traded this offseason out of necessity - so their roster will be even weaker next season than the one that is a 1st round knockout.

Don't be surprised if they finish 4th in the division next season with Quennville going to Florida. And let's be real here, even with all their star players or whatever, the Leafs (100 points) were barely a better team this season than Montreal (96 points), Islanders (103 points), Carolina (99 points), or Columbus (98 points) were - teams they were supposed to be significantly better than going into the season.

 

[jkutswings]

I don't know that people advocated Toronto as the model in the sense of spending nearly all your cap on forwards (and possibly too homogeneous a group of forwards at that).

It was the decisiveness and transparency that some approved of. In a similar fashion, the Rangers came right out and said they were rebuilding by deconstructing the existing roster, dealing with at least a few years of pain while they accumulated draft picks and young talent, and would be patient with the process.

Compared to, "we like our team", circa 2014-2017, that's refreshing honesty to some fans.

 

[Flowah]

No. The Wings will have ~20M to spend in free agency this offseason to fill like 3-4 roster spots if they so choose to do so.

Capfriendly said they had 0 cap room this year.

Vanek's 3M is coming off. Kronwall's 4.75M is coming off. Witkowski's .75M is coming off.

Where are you getting 20M from?

 

[obey86]

Capfriendly said they had 0 cap room this year.

Vanek's 3M is coming off. Kronwall's 4.75M is coming off. Witkowski's .75M is coming off.

Where are you getting 20M from?

The cap is expected to rise to 83M and they have 71M under contract for next season. That equals ~12M in cap space, right?

BUT

Since they can go 10% over the cap in the offseason prior to putting Z and Franzen on LTIR, they can get up to 8.3M in LTIR savings. Essentially they can go 8.3M over the cap in the offseason since they know Z and Franzen will be going on LTIR when the season begins. This is what they did last year when they signed Larkin -- they were over the cap after they signed Larkin -- and then became cap compliant when they placed Franzen and Z on LTIR.

That's approximately 20M they have to spend. 12+ 8.3

 

[HisNoodliness]

Even if we argue that that was a weak call (which I am not sure it was), giving up so many goals on one kill is beer league hockey.

Also watching the rest of the game, there should have been more calls in general. Vegas employed the classic tactic "it's the playoffs so we can get away with whatever," which made this call seem arbitrary and out of place. There was no call on the play until they realized Pavelski was in bad shape- that's not how the game is called. It either is a penalty or isn't. The reffing has been awful in general...

I think the league needs to fix the whole "we don't call penalties in the playoffs" thing. I get the argument that you don't want the refs deciding the game but in a way that's still happening. I used to be okay with it because it made the playoffs better than the regular season. Now the regular season is super fast, skilled and entertaining. I hate how the playoffs are a defensive, subtle-interference, neutral zone trap fest. It's worse hockey than the regular season now and inconsistent reffing is a big part of that.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Actually, it is. It's the biggest reason why they lost. Not the only reason, but the biggest. If that dumb call doesn't get made, the Sharks only score one powerplay goal from a 2 minute minor.

It isn't though. They had a bad call go against them. Woo-****ing-hoo. The biggest reason why they lost is that they went back on their heels after the penalty. They responded very very poorly to it.

What you're saying is the biggest reason Atlanta lost to New England in the 28-3 collapse was that they had the holding call (borderline) go against them when the score was 28-12 and they couldn't tack on a field goal to put it out of reach. Which is just patently false.

Eakin committed a penalty (the 2 minute version of the cross-check) and by doing so he left it up to the ref's discretion to give more after Pavelski came up bleeding.

Vegas needs to own up to their failing. Even getting a major penalty doesn't guarantee you a goal, let alone 4 of them. All they had to do was finish out a game that they had in hand. But they decided to be pissy about a bad call.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Also watching the rest of the game, there should have been more calls in general. Vegas employed the classic tactic "it's the playoffs so we can get away with whatever," which made this call seem arbitrary and out of place. There was no call on the play until they realized Pavelski was in bad shape- that's not how the game is called. It either is a penalty or isn't. The reffing has been awful in general...

I think the league needs to fix the whole "we don't call penalties in the playoffs" thing. I get the argument that you don't want the refs deciding the game but in a way that's still happening. I used to be okay with it because it made the playoffs better than the regular season. Now the regular season is super fast, skilled and entertaining. I hate how the playoffs are a defensive, subtle-interference, neutral zone trap fest. It's worse hockey than the regular season now and inconsistent reffing is a big part of that.

That's exactly how the game is called though. It's why Malkin wasn't suspended in the Cup Finals for instigating the fight against Zetterberg and Weber wasn't suspended for channeling Hulk Hogan with Z's head into the boards.

 

[GMR]

It isn't though. They had a bad call go against them. Woo-****ing-hoo. The biggest reason why they lost is that they went back on their heels after the penalty. They responded very very poorly to it.

What you're saying is the biggest reason Atlanta lost to New England in the 28-3 collapse was that they had the holding call (borderline) go against them when the score was 28-12 and they couldn't tack on a field goal to put it out of reach. Which is just patently false.

Eakin committed a penalty (the 2 minute version of the cross-check) and by doing so he left it up to the ref's discretion to give more after Pavelski came up bleeding.

Vegas needs to own up to their failing. Even getting a major penalty doesn't guarantee you a goal, let alone 4 of them. All they had to do was finish out a game that they had in hand. But they decided to be pissy about a bad call.

Except you just made that up. That isn't my argument at all. The two situations are not remotely comparable. This was one penalty that resulted in a continuous powerplay which resulted in four goals. New England didn't score all their points off one bad call.

Yes, Vegas fell apart and sucked on the PK. However, there should have only been a minor penalty there. They score and make it 3-1 with about 10 minutes to go. Maybe the Sharks still score two more goals and win the game, but that's a big maybe.

The penalty is the biggest reason why they lost. That call doesn't get made and it's very doubtful the Sharks win the game.

 

[lomekian]

EK has been on the ice for 17 of 23 goals against. That right there is the reason why I want to stay away from him. And its pretty ironic, it looks like the two wayward goalies, Flower and Bishop both outlast the teams that cast them out.

9 points in 7 games from the back end can't be ignored though. Its all about pairing him with a strong defensive Dman and making sure you have a good 2 way forward line.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Except you just made that up. That isn't my argument at all. The two situations are not remotely comparable. This was one penalty that resulted in a continuous powerplay which resulted in four goals. New England didn't score all their points off one bad call.

Yes, Vegas fell apart and sucked on the PK. However, there should have only been a minor penalty there. They score and make it 3-1 with about 10 minutes to go. Maybe the Sharks still score two more goals and win the game, but that's a big maybe.

The penalty is the biggest reason why they lost. That call doesn't get made and it's very doubtful the Sharks win the game.

But it did and they had 10 minutes to deal with the fallout from it. Being up 3-0... was there any need for Cody Eakin to cross-check Pavelski off that faceoff? Eakin did a dumb thing and the refs compounded the dumb thing.

It is a loser's mentality to blame the loss on the penalty. Vegas lost because Flower gave up 4 goals in 5 minutes. Penalty kill or not... that's unacceptable. The penalty is not what caused them to lose... it was their reaction to it. San Jose still had to score *4* goals in ten minutes. Vegas lost because their PK sucked, not because a major penalty was assessed.

 

[newfy]

Aren't the Wings capped out? We're gonna have stuff coming off the books but we're crunched right now because of a load of awful contracts like Abby, Ericsson, Nielsen, Helm.

Toronto is crunched because they have too many young all-star forwards...

I can't say I wouldn't rather be in their position. I'd rather have the talent and have to pick and choose which ones to keep and which ones to trade away instead of trying desperately to find a Tavares, Matthews, Marner level talent. I mean hell, their 3C had back to back 30 goal seasons. We just had our first 30 goal scorers in years this season.

The wings cap crunch isnt bad at all, thats some big hockey myth going right now. Yzerman is walking into a good situation cap wise. They've been fairly strapped from the cup/competitive post cup days but all that money is coming off the books in the next off season or two. Just in time to start paying some young guys. Larkin also set the bar pretty low for what people should be signing for in Detroit. Next offseason Ericcson and Daley are off the books at roughly 7.5 million as well, another 4 coming off for Jimmy.

Toronto is in a good position because they have the talent acquired already but theyre not in a great position. Their team is flawed, their defense sucks and say what you want about Gardiner, you cant just find someone to replace him overnight. With the talent they have tey should be ina way better position and they shoul've won a playoff round by now. With all the young guys getting paid its going to hurt their depth big time.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Both of those teams had much better back-ends and a lot more grit on them. Now those are different eras where every team still carried that.

When you get pushed out of a series physically it is an issue worth talking about. When the chips are down with this Toronto they have wilted, they have retaliated in stupid ways and not answered the bell.

This also is getting more pronounced as the regular season has gotten softer and softer. The change now isn't jumping from 4th gear into 5th or 6th it is coming from somewhere between 2nd and 3rd to 5th or 6th and teams seem to be getting caught out that way the last couple years.

It isn't the only thing, but honestly what is a bigger problem there? They have a pretty bad d-core and they aren't really hard enough on you to keep you off of their D it is an issue.

The Leafs absolutely lack jam it is a huge part of their problem in my opinion.

Again, I think this is a simplistic view of the situation. As if "sprinkling a little grit" is going to prevent the turnovers that led to the first couple of Bruins goals. It reminds me a lot of the "we need to get bigger on the back-end" arguments that we all heard for the Red Wings back in the day.

To me the Leafs biggest issues are the following:

1. Their defense simply isn't good enough to support the forward core they have. In the regular season it isn't as noticeable because their forwards are so good and can take advantage of the space they are given, but in the playoffs the ice gets smaller and the forwards by themselves can't re-open that ice. You need a solid first pass from your defensemen to give you space and when a team knows they can lean on your defensemen to force turnovers then you are playing in your end more often.

2. I don't think Babcock is necessarily utilizing the right system for the roster he has. I saw way too many stretch passes that were easily eaten up by Boston's defense (and when it did work the Bruins adapted) and the team didn't seem to "buy in" the same way that we have seen from other teams.

3. I think at this point Kadri is a negative contributor to the team. This is the second year in a row he has been suspended in the playoffs and he is the kind of guy that I see being a major harm to the team's mental cohesion and a reason why the team seems to lose their composure when the going gets tough.

Sure adding some more "blue-collar" type guys will be beneficial to the team (might make them more consistent as well) but I don't see it as a "grit vs. lack of grit" issue.

 

[TorMapleJays]

Toronto's missing piece.......Glendenning.

Sell it Stevie.

Can we give you Babcock?

 

[GMR]

But it did and they had 10 minutes to deal with the fallout from it. Being up 3-0... was there any need for Cody Eakin to cross-check Pavelski off that faceoff? Eakin did a dumb thing and the refs compounded the dumb thing.

It is a loser's mentality to blame the loss on the penalty. Vegas lost because Flower gave up 4 goals in 5 minutes. Penalty kill or not... that's unacceptable. The penalty is not what caused them to lose... it was their reaction to it. San Jose still had to score *4* goals in ten minutes. Vegas lost because their PK sucked, not because a major penalty was assessed.

Sure there was. Pavelski has the kind of face that makes you want to crosscheck him repeatedly. Incidentally, he wasn't even crosschecked in the face.

I'm not a Vegas fan, but I believe the referees need to be banned from officiating another game in these playoffs. They got together after the timeout and decided there should be a 5 minute major and an ejection. I don't remember a call even being made on the ice.

 

[newfy]

Sure there was. Pavelski has the kind of face that makes you want to crosscheck him repeatedly. Incidentally, he wasn't even crosschecked in the face.

I'm not a Vegas fan, but I believe the referees need to be banned from officiating another game in these playoffs. They got together after the timeout and decided there should be a 5 minute major and an ejection. I don't remember a call even being made on the ice.

Yep, horrible call.

 

[avssuc]

We gave up 4 goals in a 5min pp to the Islanders this (last?) season.

That sounds about right. Helm, Abdelkader, Dekeyser, and Neilsen were all working the kill I'd assume.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Horrible call but its no excuse to give up 4 PP goals in 5 minutes.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Everybody sucked in that game 7.

Sharks sucked by going down 3-0 in game 7 on their own ice.
The officials sucked for not calling much of anything until that call that they seemed to make up (gotta imagine that is going to be discussed behind closed doors this offseason)
The Knights sucked for falling apart and allowing four straight goals on the powerplay.

Thankfully it led to the best period of hockey I have seen in these playoffs and I'm not even mad I stayed up until 1 AM to watch it.

 

[RedWingsfan55]

Not going to complain, because we’re all rooting for SJ... but... that was a terrible 5 minute major call, and prbly cost LV the series. Cross check sure, but 5 minute major? In a game 7? Yikes. Tough luck for LV

Completely agree. I want San Jose to win, but those refs should be fired. What a disgrace to the league.

 

[Konnan511]

We gave up 4 goals in a 5min pp to the Islanders this (last?) season.

One of the best team's in the East versus one of the worst team's in the league, yah that'll happen.

Two playoff team? Embarrassing.

 

[Konnan511]

Not going to complain, because we’re all rooting for SJ... but... that was a terrible 5 minute major call, and prbly cost LV the series. Cross check sure, but 5 minute major? In a game 7? Yikes. Tough luck for LV

If you agree it was a cross check, then you HAVE to call a major since it resulted in an injury. Holding that results in an injury? Major. Tripping that results in an injury? Major. Taunting that results in an injury? Major. Interference that results in an injury? Major.

 

[avssuc]

Thank goodness we aren't Toronto. Can you imagine being a capped out, 1 round playoff team, with no realistic ways to upgrade the roster? They will literally have negative cap space after they sign Marner to a big deal this coming offseason. And that's before they re-sign Kapanen and Johnsson to likely fairly significant raises.

Yeah, they can trade Connor Brown and/or Hyman probably to become cap compliant (although the Kapanen/Johnsson deals may eat into any savings they get by trading these players away). But that doesn't make them a better team and they are already losing Gardiner this offseason and replacing him with no one.

Good luck!

Thank goodness we are a lottery team with a bad cap situation as opposed to a team with 2 certified superstars in their primes, a pretty good supporting cast, a decent farm system, and a tenuous cap? That's a pretty bold statement.

-Jake Gardiner ($4.05) is absolutely terrible when it counts, so that's 'almost' addition by subtraction.

-If they can convince Babs that Marleau needs to go, they can free up $6.25 a year ahead of his contract expiring. He has a NMC, but even without it he's Toronto's more expensive version of Dan Cleary, Babs Toronto BFF, so he will be back.

-Hainseys contract is up this summer, that's $3 mil

That's not real bad given they have 2 solid D prospects with the Marlies that can 'probably' step in next year. If they want something proven, they could send Nylander+ Liljegren (might be too high, but I'm not sure about the market there) to grab a guy like Trouba. They have 2 skill guys drafted recently that are lighting it up with the Marlies that could compete for Nylanders spot.

It sucks for them that they will be paying Kessel $1.2 until 2022. Is retained salary something they can trade?

Pretty sure I'd trade the Wings roster for the Leafs.

 

[Yooper906]

If you agree it was a cross check, then you HAVE to call a major since it resulted in an injury. Holding that results in an injury? Major. Tripping that results in an injury? Major. Taunting that results in an injury? Major. Interference that results in an injury? Major.

View attachment 220401

The cross check didn’t result in the injury lol. It was statsny pushing him down, resulting in his head hitting the ice. Idk what you were watching

 

[Blueliner70]

I am pulling for the Sharks, so the Nyquist trade becomes a second round draft pick.............