2019 Stanley Cup Playoffs Discussion Thread

[Claypool]

My health has declined significantly after the last two Vegas/Sharks game. Bad look on the 5 minute major seeing the slow motion replay. Vegas still shouldn't have given up 4 goals in 5 and they blew a commanding series lead and screwed the pooch at home on Sunday. Still frustrating to see shoddy officiating. Vegas will probably get an apology letter like the Lions get every dang year.

The result will be the league is to now review every 5 minute major penalty. Sucks that even more replay has to entire the game and slow it down further, but when the refs you employ can't do the job, clearly outside help is required.

 

[pz29]

Yeah, they got a massive break for sure!

The OT period was quite a bit of fun with a lot of close calls. Meier looked very good in OT.

Even if we argue that that was a weak call (which I am not sure it was), giving up so many goals on one kill is beer league hockey.

 

[jkutswings]

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[SCD]

Toronto's missing piece.......Glendenning.

Sell it Stevie.

 

[Winger98]

the Vegas penalty is a weak, crappy way to ruin the end of a series.

 

[Heaton]

the Vegas penalty is a weak, crappy way to ruin the end of a series.

Definitely, but like they could have not let in 4 goals on one pp and it wouldn't have really mattered haha.

 

[Winger98]

Definitely, but like they could have not let in 4 goals on one pp and it wouldn't have really mattered haha.

they could have, but we've all seen bad breaks pile up and teams fall apart over seemingly small things. Vegas isn't without blame, but the penalty just sort of cheapens it for me.

 

[Heaton]

they could have, but we've all seen bad breaks pile up and teams fall apart over seemingly small things. Vegas isn't without blame, but the penalty just sort of cheapens it for me.

I definitely agree, but there's always going to be bad calls in the playoffs. I have a hunch that they'll introduce a replay system for 5 minute majors that stems from this. All I'm saying is, if there's a bad call the team on the short end of the stick still has an opportunity to make it mean less by killing off at least some of the pp. Vegas completely imploded and I think they deserve more blame than normal because of their complaining (some of it definitely justified) throughout this year and last year.

 

[Oddbob]

Even if we argue that that was a weak call (which I am not sure it was), giving up so many goals on one kill is beer league hockey.

I agree about the goals part as I can't recall a team giving up 4 in a 5 minute PP stretch, so that is on them, but I believe the game ends 3-1 or 4-1 for Vegas without that PP, as they were in control of that game at that point. Bad calls seem to have a tendency of messing up even the best of teams.

 

[TheMule93]

I agree about the goals part as I can't recall a team giving up 4 in a 5 minute PP stretch, so that is on them, but I believe the game ends 3-1 or 4-1 for Vegas without that PP, as they were in control of that game at that point. Bad calls seem to have a tendency of messing up even the best of teams.

We gave up 4 goals in a 5min pp to the Islanders this (last?) season.

 

[Oddbob]

We gave up 4 goals in a 5min pp to the Islanders this (last?) season.

Did we really? I didn't watch that particular game then, as I don't remember that.

 

[obey86]

Did we really? I didn't watch that particular game then, as I don't remember that.

 

[obey86]

Thank goodness we aren't Toronto. Can you imagine being a capped out, 1 round playoff team, with no realistic ways to upgrade the roster? They will literally have negative cap space after they sign Marner to a big deal this coming offseason. And that's before they re-sign Kapanen and Johnsson to likely fairly significant raises.

Yeah, they can trade Connor Brown and/or Hyman probably to become cap compliant (although the Kapanen/Johnsson deals may eat into any savings they get by trading these players away). But that doesn't make them a better team and they are already losing Gardiner this offseason and replacing him with no one.

Good luck!

 

[Oddbob]

OUCH! At least it wasn't in a game 7 though, that is a terrible way to go out!

 

[TatarTangle]

People can complain about the call all they want; people make mistakes, including refs, so questionable calls happen. It's how teams deal with those bad calls that matters. Vegas dealt with it in the worst possible way. Tough shit.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Thank goodness we aren't Toronto. Can you imagine being a capped out, 1 round playoff team, with no realistic ways to upgrade the roster? They will literally have negative cap space after they sign Marner to a big deal this coming offseason. And that's before they re-sign Kapanen and Johnsson to likely fairly significant raises.

Yeah, they can trade Connor Brown and/or Hyman probably to become cap compliant (although the Kapanen/Johnsson deals may eat into any savings they get by trading these players away). But that doesn't make them a better team and they are already losing Gardiner this offseason and replacing him with no one.

Good luck!

But no, Toronto is the model we should be following!

But for serious, Toronto is actually in a really really tough spot. They built a ton of assets and it probably should be working better than it is... but they're capped out and stuck and will be losing some damn good players.

They are showing that there is more to rebuilding than simply getting a bunch of young, exceptional players. If you're going after a Cup, you have to be able to address weaknesses on your roster, not simply throw more assets at your strength.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Thank goodness we aren't Toronto. Can you imagine being a capped out, 1 round playoff team, with no realistic ways to upgrade the roster? They will literally have negative cap space after they sign Marner to a big deal this coming offseason. And that's before they re-sign Kapanen and Johnsson to likely fairly significant raises.

Yeah, they can trade Connor Brown and/or Hyman probably to become cap compliant (although the Kapanen/Johnsson deals may eat into any savings they get by trading these players away). But that doesn't make them a better team and they are already losing Gardiner this offseason and replacing him with no one.

Good luck!

I agree I would hate to have star players and too many of them at that

 

[Lil Bert]

Unreal comeback for the Sharks. People watching the replay won't get how electric that game was. Once Pavelski went down with that injury the Sharks started reallying. I wonder if they can carry this momentum to the finals so we can get that second round pick

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I agree I would hate to have star players and too many of them at that

Yes, Toronto has a lot of good material to work with. But what obey is saying is that, for all of that great material, they will need to jettison at least some of it to improve their team. They're losing most of their "cheap" pieces and having to pony up to keep them.

Toronto is in a sneaky bad spot because all of their young stars. And to materially improve their roster, they need to deal one of those stars and bring in the prime Helm/better Glendening type pieces (aka the bottom line glue guys who do the little things) which they will get killed for in the media and by their fans.

Or they could get lucky and land a Shanahan type trade where they get a star who has that snarl.

 

[obey86]

But no, Toronto is the model we should be following!

But for serious, Toronto is actually in a really really tough spot. They built a ton of assets and it probably should be working better than it is... but they're capped out and stuck and will be losing some damn good players.

They are showing that there is more to rebuilding than simply getting a bunch of young, exceptional players. If you're going after a Cup, you have to be able to address weaknesses on your roster, not simply throw more assets at your strength.

Yes they are. Let's make the following assumptions:
*The salary cap rises to 83M
*Marner signs for 9.5M
*Kapanen signs for 2.5M
*Johnnson signs for 2.5M
*Horton remains on LTIR, saving the Leafs the full 5.3M

By my calculations that puts the Leafs at 85M, 2M over the salary cap. Their best options from that point appear to be to trade two players from the group of Kapanen (2.5), Johnnson (2.5), Brown (2.1), or Hyman (2.2). Let's say they trade Hyman and Brown, the two worst players from that group. Taking into account having to still replace these players/roster spots with minimum salary players (~800k or whatever) this would put them just under the cap limit (2.1 +2.2 - 800k -800k = 2.7).

They could also potentially trade Kadri (4.5) or buyout Marleau. Or maybe they go really crazy and trade Nylander (6.9) for a young player on his entry level contract.

Anyway you slice it, their defense is going to be weaker next season (no Gardiner) and their offense (at the best) isn't going to be any better.

 

[obey86]

I agree I would hate to have star players and too many of them at that

Even if your team as built with the 3 star players and the star coach appear to be maxed out as first round losers?

A team like Chicago won when their best players were not making big money. Once they got the big contracts, the team was weakened significantly and they were never the same. Now pretend it's Toronto with the star players on big contracts, except they have never been past the first round with those players and instead of Keith, Seabrook, and Hjarmarsson on the backend you have Reilly and a bunch of average to below average players.

They could potentially win in the future, it's just going to be hella tough IMO. And although a team like TB has potential cap issues moving forward as well, TB has at least shown they can be an elite team (despite their bad playoff loss this year) and have a better defensive grow, better goalie, AND a comparable forward group (IMO).

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Marchessault can blow it out of his ass. A tie game where a penalty like that happens with a minute to go? You can compare that to New Orleans. In that case, New Orleans had the game won if the call was made correctly. They were within chip shot field goal distance and they'd have had 1st and goal, Rams with no time outs... so they could grind the clock and kick the chip shot.

In this game, there was 10 minutes to go and Vegas had a 3-0 lead. All they had to do was not choke in epic fashion. Apparently they couldn't handle that.

I don't care if they called the penalty on Mario Lemieux and charged it against Vegas... that penalty isn't why you lost.

 

[GMR]

Marchessault can blow it out of his ass. A tie game where a penalty like that happens with a minute to go? You can compare that to New Orleans. In that case, New Orleans had the game won if the call was made correctly. They were within chip shot field goal distance and they'd have had 1st and goal, Rams with no time outs... so they could grind the clock and kick the chip shot.

In this game, there was 10 minutes to go and Vegas had a 3-0 lead. All they had to do was not choke in epic fashion. Apparently they couldn't handle that.

I don't care if they called the penalty on Mario Lemieux and charged it against Vegas... that penalty isn't why you lost.

Actually, it is. It's the biggest reason why they lost. Not the only reason, but the biggest. If that dumb call doesn't get made, the Sharks only score one powerplay goal from a 2 minute minor.

 

[pz29]

I can see someone photo-shopping Pavelski getting cut in half with this!

A good question to ask is "What is Eakin thinking doing that when you are up 3 goals with 10 minutes to go? Even if it is 2 minutes, and and the other team scores one, you have just given them life. 'Cause there is no way this is not some sort of a penalty.

 

[Flowah]

Thank goodness we aren't Toronto. Can you imagine being a capped out, 1 round playoff team, with no realistic ways to upgrade the roster? They will literally have negative cap space after they sign Marner to a big deal this coming offseason. And that's before they re-sign Kapanen and Johnsson to likely fairly significant raises.

Yeah, they can trade Connor Brown and/or Hyman probably to become cap compliant (although the Kapanen/Johnsson deals may eat into any savings they get by trading these players away). But that doesn't make them a better team and they are already losing Gardiner this offseason and replacing him with no one.

Good luck!

Aren't the Wings capped out? We're gonna have stuff coming off the books but we're crunched right now because of a load of awful contracts like Abby, Ericsson, Nielsen, Helm.

Toronto is crunched because they have too many young all-star forwards...

I can't say I wouldn't rather be in their position. I'd rather have the talent and have to pick and choose which ones to keep and which ones to trade away instead of trying desperately to find a Tavares, Matthews, Marner level talent. I mean hell, their 3C had back to back 30 goal seasons. We just had our first 30 goal scorers in years this season.