Prospect Info: 2019 NHL Entry Draft Part II

[PKs Broken Stick]

In addition to this, Hughes is a terrific shooter and scorer

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. His shot is NOT good. If he had even a decent shot he'd have way more goals along with his assists. It's his biggest weakness by far. Everything else you said is 100% spot on though.

edit: i don't mean to use his stats as proof of my statement, I was just trying to give a hard reasoning of why I'm saying that. I've seen film on him and stuff too.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

So far as the Hischier/Patrick argument, in 2017 it was pretty much an even split at #1. Scouting bureaus which picked Nico #1 (you can look this up) included TSN's Bob McKenzie and Craig Button, McKeen's, Future Considerations, ESPN, Corey Pronman. These are some pretty huge names. This year, I have yet to see anyone list Kakko over Hughes. Not one reputable scouting service or draft writer. I have, however, seen Kakko listed at #3 behind Hughes and Podkolzin, which I strongly disagree with (Steve Kournianos). If you send me a link to a reputable writer (not a Finnish hockey fan on a message board) saying Kakko is the #1 pick this year, I'd love to read it.

As for this, I'm willing to bet if Patrick wasn't injured, no one would have Hischier in conversation in the #1. The injury to Patrick was a huge reason Nico was able to "compete" with Patrick for the #1 spot.

 

[glenwo2]

As for this, I'm willing to bet if Patrick wasn't injured, no one would have Hischier in conversation in the #1. The injury to Patrick was a huge reason Nico was able to "compete" with Patrick for the #1 spot.

You cannot honestly say at this point(from the draft all the way to now) that Patrick is deserving of the #1 spot in that draft. Come on now.....

 

[NJDevs26]

Where the HELL are they getting these wins I ask? No more Ottawa to kick around and the goalies can only do so much with this AHL roster

Honestly I could 'maybe' see them beating the Flyers out of trolldom on Friday, but how many are they winning on that six-game road trip coming up, two at most? Even that's pushing it. If they win five games total the rest of the way that might be a lot at this point.

lol and people were actually worried about some lotto-busting winning streak with this motley crew. My five at most prediction is looking generous considering they've had ZERO since that post

You cannot honestly say at this point(from the draft all the way to now) that Patrick is deserving of the #1 spot in that draft. Come on now.....

He means that the narrative around the #1 pick predraft would have been different if Patrick wasn't hurt for much of his final predraft season. Which is true.

 

[Emperoreddy]

lol and people were actually worried about some lotto-busting winning streak with this motley crew. My five at most prediction is looking generous considering they've had ZERO since that post



He means that the narrative around the #1 pick predraft would have been different if Patrick wasn't hurt for much of his final predraft season. Which is true.

Thing is two wins on this road trip is a lotto buster. Ottawa and Detroit may never win again. Counting on the Kings to win hockey games is folly.

 

[NJDevs26]

Thing is two wins on this road trip is a lotto buster. Ottawa and Detroit may never win again. Counting on the Kings to win hockey games is folly.

We'll beat Detroit then complain how we failed to tank when going 2-17 in our last nineteen since one of the two will be over the Wings

 

[Emperoreddy]

We'll beat Detroit then complain how we failed to tank when going 2-17 in our last nineteen since one of the two will be over the Wings

You jest but this legitimately could be how this turns out.

Thing is if they play like they did for 2/3rds if this game, they most likely beat at least one of Edmonton or Vanc. Both teams are big steps down from the Flames.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

He means that the narrative around the #1 pick predraft would have been different if Patrick wasn't hurt for much of his final predraft season. Which is true.

He gets it

 

[Devils731]

As for this, I'm willing to bet if Patrick wasn't injured, no one would have Hischier in conversation in the #1. The injury to Patrick was a huge reason Nico was able to "compete" with Patrick for the #1 spot.

I disagree. On a per game basis Nico out goaled and out pointed Patrick while crushing it at world juniors.

Patrick didn’t improve his numbers when he did play and Nico joined the league and put up better numbers while appearing more dynamic. If you just up Patrick's games played but don’t changes his per game rates, Nico would still have been neck and neck at number 1 and likely still would have been chosen by the Devils.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I disagree. On a per game basis Nico out goaled and out pointed Patrick while crushing it at world juniors.

Patrick didn’t improve his numbers when he did play and Nico joined the league and put up better numbers while appearing more dynamic. If you just up Patrick's games played but don’t changes his per game rates, Nico would still have been neck and neck at number 1 and likely still would have been chosen by the Devils.

All I'm going to say is...canadien...he would've had MAJOR bias. It's hard to say if patrick would've repeated his 100 point season but even if he didn't he would've come close.

Let me ask you something...Hughes hasnt improve his goal score totals, it even went down...yet why is NO ONE criticizing that....( and i believe his ppg went down as well). Kakko isn't even being given a glance at for the #1 spot. I highly doubt anyone would've criticized patricks small decrease in ppg.

Also kakko wasn't far off from hughes at the u18s last yr and the u20 this yr and even got the game winning goal.

It's hard for me to believe hischier would've gotten any consideration if patrick was healthy.

 

[Devils731]

Hughes is considered more dynamic and that’s very sought after at the moment. That is a point in Nico’s draft favor as well.

It wasn’t that Patrick lost so much draft equity, it was that Nico gained so much draft equity. Why would everyone be enamored with Patrick’s 100 point season over 72 games but not really care about Nico’s higher 100 point season over 72 games?

Your big point above seems to be Canadien bias but we have 3 years, going on 4, of a non-Canadian going first overall. I think teams care a lot more about who is best and a not so much what country they’re from.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Hughes is considered more dynamic and that’s very sought after at the moment. That is a point in Nico’s draft favor as well.

It wasn’t that Patrick lost so much draft equity, it was that Nico gained so much draft equity. Why would everyone be enamored with Patrick’s 100 point season over 72 games but not really care about Nico’s higher 100 point season over 72 games?

Again, this whole point was if patrick wasn't injured. It wouldn't be 100 point over 72 games, it'd be a lot more than that.

Your big point above seems to be Canadien bias but we have 3 years, going on 4, of a non-Canadian going first overall. I think teams care a lot more about who is best and a not so much what country they’re from.

Now I'm not sure you even know what I was referring to. I'm not talking about who would've been drafted. I'm talking about the rankings set by the "draft experts". They most definitely have a us/canadien bias. As for the draft thing, 2018 there were no north american really close to be in contention for #1, 2016 had matthews vs laine, 2013 mackinnon vs barkov (barkov wasn't even top 2 on anyone's list yet was drafted #2)

 

[BurntToast]

I think NA scouts care a lot about their own product. It’s supremely difficult to gauge EU and Russian prospects. There have been some improvement but there are still risk factors which include things outside of hockey. Example culture and language. It’s even more prevalent with Russians prospects. Therefore it’s riskier to rank/pick prospects outside NA. Injured or not Hughes underwhelmed at the U20 and didn’t play in the 5 nations tournament. His shooting is nowhere close to Kane’s and his size might disqualify him as a center. He can skate and he is a great passer. I can see him getting the majority of his points from assits, much like young Scott Gomez who won the Rookie of the Year. Kaapo looks to be the better scorer/better on the bords/better on defense/better possession/ passing and skating go to Hughes but Kaapo is still above average. Hughes is great and I would welcome him to the Devils but it’s absurd to think he is so much better than Kakko.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I think NA scouts care a lot about their own product. It’s supremely difficult to gauge EU and Russian prospects. There have been some improvement but there are still risk factors which include things outside of hockey. Example culture and language. It’s even more prevalent with Russians prospects. Therefore it’s riskier to rank/pick prospects outside NA. Injured or not Hughes underwhelmed at the U20 and didn’t play in the 5 nations tournament. His shooting is nowhere close to Kane’s and his size might disqualify him as a center. He can skate and he is a great passer. I can see him getting the majority of his points from assits, much like young Scott Gomez who won the Rookie of the Year. Kaapo looks to be the better scorer/better on the bords/better on defense/better possession/ passing and skating go to Hughes but Kaapo is still above average. Hughes is great and I would welcome him to the Devils but it’s absurd to think he is so much better than Kakko.

I didn't want to say this because I know I'm going to get roasted....but he reminds me of a smaller Mcleod. blinding speed, great playmaking and hockey iq, blowing by people 1 on 5, weak shot. He might not be doing any of that at the pros but it is definitely what he did in juniors.

 

[Ripshot 43]

I didn't want to say this because I know I'm going to get roasted....but he reminds me of a smaller Mcleod. blinding speed, great playmaking and hockey iq, blowing by people 1 on 5, weak shot. He doesn't do any of that now at the pros but it is definitely what he did in juniors.

I thank you in advance for the responses that are surely to come

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I thank you in advance for the responses that are surely to come

lol. i'm ready for the mcleod is nowhere as talented as hughes comments, etc. etc.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I didn't want to say this because I know I'm going to get roasted....but he reminds me of a smaller Mcleod. blinding speed, great playmaking and hockey iq, blowing by people 1 on 5, weak shot. He might not be doing any of that at the pros but it is definitely what he did in juniors.

Well, I keep saying and will say again that these debates are worthless if we compare a generational talent like Hughes to Devils and ex-Devils like Gomez and McLeod. It just does not advance the conversation.

Last year, when I was lauding K'Andre Miller, the doubters compared him to Eric Gelinas. Eric Gelinas! This was ridiculous, but I had to fend off these ludicrous assumptions time and time again for no reason. This year, I'm defending Bowen Byram against baseless comparisons to Jake Bean and Jack Hughes to baseless comparisons of Scott Gomez and Mike McLeod. I just can't do it. It's too silly. There are no comparisons which are even realistically debatable. Hughes has perennial 100-point upside, we have never seen a player like him in our lives. His ability to make intricate plays at high speeds is almost prodigal. Watching him play is like watching Monet vs. finger-painters.

Hughes' passing and skating are not "better than Kakko". They are better than anyone this side of McDavid drafted in the past decade. I have not read a single reputable draft expert which has Hughes ranked anywhere other than #1. So let's end this debate right now. If all 31 teams win the lottery, all 31 teams draft Hughes. Okay? Done. No controversy, no debate.

Devils fans need to keep their eyes on the prize instead of getting caught up in what amounts to hockey conspiracy theory. All 31 teams drafting #1 take Hughes. Done. All 31 NHL teams drafting #2 take Kakko. Done. The debate begins at #3. I personally want the Devils to take Byram, as I've stated at length. I would also be happy with Cozens. This is a legitimate debate. If the Devils draft after #4 and those players are off the board, do you want Turcotte/Zegras/Podkolzin/Krebs/Boldy? This is a legitimate debate. But I no longer have the time to respond to comparisons of a generational player like Jack Hughes to Scott Gomez and Mikey McLeod, just as I would not compare Auston Matthews to Pavel Zacha or Johnny Gaudreau to Jesper Bratt. It's foolhardy.

 

[BurntToast]

lol. i'm ready for the mcleod is nowhere as talented as hughes comments, etc. etc.

Jack Hughes is Jack Hughes. I use Scott Gomez comparison because of his stats and his passing ability, but Hughes is truly unique. McLeod and Hughes might share speed but Hughes is a gifted skater (Some say on McDavid level or better). His edge work is amazing. He is also average or above at everything except shooting and his defense could be better. Also he is not soft but obviously with his size he is better away from physical areas. (Front of Net/Boards). I hate how creatics compare these kids. They say teams are getting a star/franchise player but not a generational player but he might be the next Kane .

Then you have Kakko who is in the same tier but nowhere as good as Hughes. What!? I think the mystery of Jesse Puljujärvi hurts Kakko a bit. Maybe he can turn it around, but Puljujärvi is another prospect who was ranked high because he played very well in the Liiga. I think Kakko is more comparable to Barkov and many Fins think he is even better maybe even on par with Peter Forsberg. Barkov alone is super underrated. If Mathews is generational ( He is not) then Barkov should be on the same level. Barkov is the better player overall and still has upside. I think there are only 3/4 “generational” players right now. Crosby, Ovy, McDavid (Kucherov if he can repeat this year success ).

Side note: The Oilers are squandering McDavid and it is mind boggling. I also feel bad for Puljujärvi. I wouldn’t mind if the Devils throw a 2nd/3rd to the Oilers to get him out of purgatory.

 

[Ripshot 43]

Well, I keep saying and will say again that these debates are worthless if we compare a generational talent like Hughes to Devils and ex-Devils like Gomez and McLeod. It just does not advance the conversation.

Last year, when I was lauding K'Andre Miller, the doubters compared him to Eric Gelinas. Eric Gelinas! This was ridiculous, but I had to fend off these ludicrous assumptions time and time again for no reason. This year, I'm defending Bowen Byram against baseless comparisons to Jake Bean and Jack Hughes to baseless comparisons of Scott Gomez and Mike McLeod. I just can't do it. It's too silly. There are no comparisons which are even realistically debatable. Hughes has perennial 100-point upside, we have never seen a player like him in our lives. His ability to make intricate plays at high speeds is almost prodigal. Watching him play is like watching Monet vs. finger-painters.

Hughes' passing and skating are not "better than Kakko". They are better than anyone this side of McDavid drafted in the past decade. I have not read a single reputable draft expert which has Hughes ranked anywhere other than #1. So let's end this debate right now. If all 31 teams win the lottery, all 31 teams draft Hughes. Okay? Done. No controversy, no debate.

Devils fans need to keep their eyes on the prize instead of getting caught up in what amounts to hockey conspiracy theory. All 31 teams drafting #1 take Hughes. Done. All 31 NHL teams drafting #2 take Kakko. Done. The debate begins at #3. I personally want the Devils to take Byram, as I've stated at length. I would also be happy with Cozens. This is a legitimate debate. If the Devils draft after #4 and those players are off the board, do you want Turcotte/Zegras/Podkolzin/Krebs/Boldy? This is a legitimate debate. But I no longer have the time to respond to comparisons of a generational player like Jack Hughes to Scott Gomez and Mikey McLeod, just as I would not compare Auston Matthews to Pavel Zacha or Johnny Gaudreau to Jesper Bratt. It's foolhardy.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Jack Hughes is Jack Hughes. I use Scott Gomez comparison because of his stats and his passing ability, but Hughes is truly unique. McLeod and Hughes might share speed but Hughes is a gifted skater (Some say on McDavid level or better). His edge work is amazing. He is also average or above at everything except shooting and his defense could be better. Also he is not soft but obviously with his size he is better away from physical areas. (Front of Net/Boards). I hate how creatics compare these kids. They say teams are getting a star/franchise player but not a generational player but he might be the next Kane .

Then you have Kakko who is in the same tier but nowhere as good as Hughes. What!? I think the mystery of Jesse Puljujärvi hurts Kakko a bit. Maybe he can turn it around, but Puljujärvi is another prospect who was ranked high because he played very well in the Liiga. I think Kakko is more comparable to Barkov and many Fins think he is even better maybe even on par with Peter Forsberg. Barkov alone is super underrated. If Mathews is generational ( He is not) then Barkov should be on the same level. Barkov is the better player overall and still has upside. I think there are only 3/4 “generational” players right now. Crosby, Ovy, McDavid (Kucherov if he can repeat this year success ).

Side note: The Oilers are squandering McDavid and it is mind boggling. I also feel bad for Puljujärvi. I wouldn’t mind if the Devils throw a 2nd/3rd to the Oilers to get him out of purgatory.

So. Puljujärvi fails. It "hurts" Kakko. Laine, Aho, Barkov and Rantanen succeed in glorious fashion. This does nothing for Kakko? This thought process is just silly. Every single league has produced highly drafted busts. Plus I've only seen stylistic comparisons to Forsberg...

Rest of your post I agree with...I think. For the record I've no idea where anyone should go in this draft, I've only seen the Finnish kids play enough to have any sort of opinion on their skills. I wish there was an easy way for me to watch kids like Hughes play.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Jack Hughes is Jack Hughes. I use Scott Gomez comparison because of his stats and his passing ability, but Hughes is truly unique. McLeod and Hughes might share speed but Hughes is a gifted skater (Some say on McDavid level or better). His edge work is amazing. He is also average or above at everything except shooting and his defense could be better. Also he is not soft but obviously with his size he is better away from physical areas. (Front of Net/Boards). I hate how creatics compare these kids. They say teams are getting a star/franchise player but not a generational player but he might be the next Kane .

Then you have Kakko who is in the same tier but nowhere as good as Hughes. What!? I think the mystery of Jesse Puljujärvi hurts Kakko a bit. Maybe he can turn it around, but Puljujärvi is another prospect who was ranked high because he played very well in the Liiga. I think Kakko is more comparable to Barkov and many Fins think he is even better maybe even on par with Peter Forsberg. Barkov alone is super underrated. If Mathews is generational ( He is not) then Barkov should be on the same level. Barkov is the better player overall and still has upside. I think there are only 3/4 “generational” players right now. Crosby, Ovy, McDavid (Kucherov if he can repeat this year success ).

Side note: The Oilers are squandering McDavid and it is mind boggling. I also feel bad for Puljujärvi. I wouldn’t mind if the Devils throw a 2nd/3rd to the Oilers to get him out of purgatory.

This is from McKeen's, one of the best scouting services available and one of the 5 I refer to most when wanting to affirm or counteract my own opinions after watching a player. The reason I source them now is because they are the only major scouting service which grades individual skills numerically, on the 20-80 scale. First, their rating on Kakko's shot:

Shot: He has a quick wrist shot that can beat goalies cleanly. He can shoot the puck with good power and accuracy. He is dangerous around the net and can score from close range. He plays with an unusually short stick which doesn't benefit his shooting. On a more positive note, he has started to shoot the puck more in the Liiga as the season has progressed. A constant scoring threat in the offensive zone, Kakko has the ability and potential to be a good goal-scorer in the NHL. Grade: 60

Obviously, McKeen's thinks the same as everyone else on the planet -- that Kakko has a very good shot and will be a very good goal scorer in the NHL. To give reference to the numerical scores, "50" would be average (for an NHL-er, so not a weakness per se), 60 would be a very good tool, 70 would be absolutely elite, and 80 would be like a super power, very rarely given out for anything.

With that in mind, here is McKeens view on Jack Hughes' shot:

Shot: Even Hughes’ worst offensive tool, his shot, is well above average. He is much more a playmaker than a shooter, so you can see his goal totals being dwarfed by his helpers. He owns a very strong slap shot, and his wrist shot is likewise a legitimate tool. He does get his shots off, averaging more than four per game in USHL league play, but as often as not, they do not look like they are intended to score on their own, but rather in preparation of a more sure fire scoring chance for a teammate. His shot is quickly released and sustains plus velocity. Grade: 60

I repeat, "even Hughes' worst offensive tool, his shot, is well above average".

I appreciate your debate about "what makes a generational player", I think that would be an extremely interesting discussion. I also think it's a very intriguing parallel you make between Kakko and Barkov. But we need to put to rest the myth that Hughes has a weak shot, it's simply untrue.

 

[My3Sons]

This is from McKeen's, one of the best scouting services available and one of the 5 I refer to most when wanting to affirm or counteract my own opinions after watching a player. The reason I source them now is because they are the only major scouting service which grades individual skills numerically, on the 20-80 scale. First, their rating on Kakko's shot:

Shot: He has a quick wrist shot that can beat goalies cleanly. He can shoot the puck with good power and accuracy. He is dangerous around the net and can score from close range. He plays with an unusually short stick which doesn't benefit his shooting. On a more positive note, he has started to shoot the puck more in the Liiga as the season has progressed. A constant scoring threat in the offensive zone, Kakko has the ability and potential to be a good goal-scorer in the NHL. Grade: 60

Obviously, McKeen's thinks the same as everyone else on the planet -- that Kakko has a very good shot and will be a very good goal scorer in the NHL. To give reference to the numerical scores, "50" would be average (for an NHL-er, so not a weakness per se), 60 would be a very good tool, 70 would be absolutely elite, and 80 would be like a super power, very rarely given out for anything.

With that in mind, here is McKeens view on Jack Hughes' shot:

Shot: Even Hughes’ worst offensive tool, his shot, is well above average. He is much more a playmaker than a shooter, so you can see his goal totals being dwarfed by his helpers. He owns a very strong slap shot, and his wrist shot is likewise a legitimate tool. He does get his shots off, averaging more than four per game in USHL league play, but as often as not, they do not look like they are intended to score on their own, but rather in preparation of a more sure fire scoring chance for a teammate. His shot is quickly released and sustains plus velocity. Grade: 60

I repeat, "even Hughes' worst offensive tool, his shot, is well above average".

I appreciate your debate about "what makes a generational player", I think that would be an extremely interesting discussion. I also think it's a very intriguing parallel you make between Kakko and Barkov. But we need to put to rest the myth that Hughes has a weak shot, it's simply untrue.

As you’ve stated before, NJ picked a good year to stink. Both these guys sound like top notch players and it sounds like NJ can get a skilled swift player with compete and brains down to at least pick 8 which is probably as low as NJ could pick.

 

[StevenToddIves]

As you’ve stated before, NJ picked a good year to stink. Both these guys sound like top notch players and it sounds like NJ can get a skilled swift player with compete and brains down to at least pick 8 which is probably as low as NJ could pick.

Agreed. Hughes is potentially generational, Kakko is a rare franchise winger. Byram and Cozens are both potential franchise cornerstones at positions/styles which the Devils sorely need in their organization. Even missing out on those four, the Devils would have very high odds of landing Alex Turcotte or Trevor Zegras, either of whom would alter the Devils center depth from a question mark to a strength for many seasons to come. I'm excited.

 

[Brodeur]

This is welcome news. When TSN had the draft rights, they'd do the lottery right before the playoffs started. But Sportsnet got the rights and pushed it back; It was especially bad in 2016 when all seven Canadian teams missed the playoffs. They pushed it to the end of April if only to bait the Canadian audience to tune into the Hockey Night in Canada game that they wouldn't otherwise have interest in watching.

Functionally it made no sense to shake up the draft order at the end of April. The U18 tournament would conclude by then, so scouts might have spent time focusing on certain guys that they'd no longer be in a position to draft. In particular, I remember Paul Castron going out of his way to name drop Cody Glass after we had won the lottery in 2017. Obviously your rankings shouldn't shift too much off a two week tournament, but if your team isn't in a position to be drafting in the top 3, you wouldn't spend as much time scouting Hughes/Kakko etc.

 

[None Shall Pass]

More info on the lottery: NHL.com Media Site