Prospect Info: 2019 NHL Draft tracker

[EastonBlues22]

I think you are overselling us. We are scoring well below league average, as we did last year too. Obviously we would be better team if we replaced Allen with good goalie and had better coaching. Hopefully we can hire great coach, but that is far from guaranteed. And finding top quality goalie (not just average one even) is much harder.

We don't seem to have good enough team to be contender with average goaltending, so prudent thing to do would be to stop kidding ourselves that we are a really good team in disguise and make the necessary changes so that we can be contender in next few years.

The thing about bad goaltending is that many coaches (and certainly our coaches) often try to compensate for that with a heavy defense-first mentality and with low-risk play, two things which naturally tend to cut into a team's offensive production. Having a good PP would help as well, and I think that's also heavily on the coaching. I have disagreed with a lot of what they've done on the PP for years.

If you have good goaltending, it's a lot easier to feel like you can be more aggressive...consistently try to gain the offensive zone with possession (at the risk of potentially turning it over and giving an odd-man break in the other direction), send three forwards low in the zone to create pressure/offense (rather than keeping that third forward high), etc.

When you don't have good goaltending, you often get the opposite, and we have definitely seen that from the Blues on the ice this year. This isn't a roster that's built to grind out low-outcome victories, and this isn't a league that rewards that style of play anymore, but the Blues have backed themselves into a corner where they think that's the only way they can win.

Maybe the offensive talent isn't good enough to be more than middle of the pack as constructed anyway, but this team (even as incoherently constructed as it is) isn't a bottom five team in terms of offensive talent. It shouldn't even be close. I firmly believe that it would be more productive with better coaching and better goaltending.

 

[67Blues]

The thing about bad goaltending is that many coaches (and certainly our coaches) often try to compensate for that with a heavy defense-first mentality and with low-risk play, two things which naturally tend to cut into a team's offensive production. Having a good PP would help as well, and I think that's also heavily on the coaching. I have disagreed with a lot of what they've done on the PP for years.

If you have good goaltending, it's a lot easier to feel like you can be more aggressive...consistently try to gain the offensive zone with possession (at the risk of potentially turning it over and giving an odd-man break in the other direction), send three forwards low in the zone to create pressure/offense (rather than keeping that third forward high), etc.

When you don't have good goaltending, you often get the opposite, and we have definitely seen that from the Blues on the ice this year. This isn't a roster that's built to grind out low-outcome victories, and this isn't a league that rewards that style of play anymore, but the Blues have backed themselves into a corner where they think that's the only way they can win.

Maybe the offensive talent isn't good enough to be more than middle of the pack as constructed anyway, but this team (even as incoherently constructed as it is) isn't a bottom five team in terms of offensive talent. It shouldn't even be close. I firmly believe that it would be more productive with better coaching and better goaltending.

The issue is that we are kind of stuck with DA's decision to up Allen when he did for the term he did. What are the options to get better goaltending? I don't believe that Allen is going to be any different than what we've seen for the past few seasons. We need (as do all teams) that goalie who is the best defender on the team and the wall that can shut down the opposition to open our team's offense up. Our kids aren't ready yet from what I've seen and can we afford to wait a year or two to discover if Husso or Binnington (outside chance with Fitz) are the answer?

 

[bleedblue1223]

The issue is that we are kind of stuck with DA's decision to up Allen when he did for the term he did. What are the options to get better goaltending? I don't believe that Allen is going to be any different than what we've seen for the past few seasons. We need (as do all teams) that goalie who is the best defender on the team and the wall that can shut down the opposition to open our team's offense up. Our kids aren't ready yet from what I've seen and can we afford to wait a year or two to discover if Husso or Binnington (outside chance with Fitz) are the answer?

We could buy Allen out in the summer, it would be a manageable cap hit. Then sign Howard to a short-term deal. Or one of Varlamov, Elliott, Talbot, Kinkaid. Some of those would be less than ideal, but at least as good as Allen.

 

[Blueston]

The thing about bad goaltending is that many coaches (and certainly our coaches) often try to compensate for that with a heavy defense-first mentality and with low-risk play, two things which naturally tend to cut into a team's offensive production. Having a good PP would help as well, and I think that's also heavily on the coaching. I have disagreed with a lot of what they've done on the PP for years.

If you have good goaltending, it's a lot easier to feel like you can be more aggressive...consistently try to gain the offensive zone with possession (at the risk of potentially turning it over and giving an odd-man break in the other direction), send three forwards low in the zone to create pressure/offense (rather than keeping that third forward high), etc.

When you don't have good goaltending, you often get the opposite, and we have definitely seen that from the Blues on the ice this year. This isn't a roster that's built to grind out low-outcome victories, and this isn't a league that rewards that style of play anymore, but the Blues have backed themselves into a corner where they think that's the only way they can win.

Maybe the offensive talent isn't good enough to be more than middle of the pack as constructed anyway, but this team (even as incoherently constructed as it is) isn't a bottom five team in terms of offensive talent. It shouldn't even be close. I firmly believe that it would be more productive with better coaching and better goaltending.

100% agree.

 

[bleedblue1223]

With improved goaltending, we are probably around where Minnesota is, that would be with a .905 team sv%, which is average. That's not factoring in any change in offense due to better goaltending though. Having Tarasenko normal would result in about another 5 goals and probably means another win along the way.

We really just need to figure out if he's shoulder is going to be good moving forward and Army desperately needs to find a way to make our goaltending situation at least average for next season.

 

[EastonBlues22]

The issue is that we are kind of stuck with DA's decision to up Allen when he did for the term he did. What are the options to get better goaltending? I don't believe that Allen is going to be any different than what we've seen for the past few seasons. We need (as do all teams) that goalie who is the best defender on the team and the wall that can shut down the opposition to open our team's offense up. Our kids aren't ready yet from what I've seen and can we afford to wait a year or two to discover if Husso or Binnington (outside chance with Fitz) are the answer?

It's a good question. I don't have the answer for it. I mean, I could list some possibilities, but who knows how many of them are actually realistic. Guys available for signing might not want to sign here. Guys that we think might be available for trade might not actually be available, or might be cost prohibitive. We can speculate, but we can't say anything is the answer.

That said, we can say for certain that it's Armstrong's job to find an answer for it, one way or another. He needs to clean up his mess. If he can't do it, then someone else who can needs to do it. This particular problem isn't a mystery. It just needs to be dealt with.

 

[Alklha]

I could write an essay on how Armstrong has mismanaged our goaltending situation at almost every turn. He's made at least 4 decisions that can't be reasonably justified.

Better goaltending would do a lot for this team, but we're only going to get it from blind luck.

When it comes to getting rid of Allen, it's difficult to speculate without breaking down every teams needs going forward. I'd think retaining 50% would get interest though. The better backups are getting 2-3 year deals at $2.5m+ in UFA. Pretty limited risk for the aquiring team as well, since it'll only cost ~$1m if it doesn't work out and they buty him in the minors.

 

[Blueston]

I could write an essay on how Armstrong has mismanaged our goaltending situation at almost every turn. He's made at least 4 decisions that can't be reasonably justified.

Better goaltending would do a lot for this team, but we're only going to get it from blind luck.

When it comes to getting rid of Allen, it's difficult to speculate without breaking down every teams needs going forward. I'd think retaining 50% would get interest though. The better backups are getting 2-3 year deals at $2.5m+ in UFA. Pretty limited risk for the aquiring team as well, since it'll only cost ~$1m if it doesn't work out and they buty him in the minors.

Exactly. If we retained we could absolutely deal Allen. He is decent backup. Bigger issue is who do we get to replace him? Betting big on Bob or Varly seems super risky. Who else is likely to be available that we would want? Maybe Matt Murray?

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

I could write an essay on how Armstrong has mismanaged our goaltending situation at almost every turn. He's made at least 4 decisions that can't be reasonably justified.

Better goaltending would do a lot for this team, but we're only going to get it from blind luck.

When it comes to getting rid of Allen, it's difficult to speculate without breaking down every teams needs going forward. I'd think retaining 50% would get interest though. The better backups are getting 2-3 year deals at $2.5m+ in UFA. Pretty limited risk for the aquiring team as well, since it'll only cost ~$1m if it doesn't work out and they buty him in the minors.

Overall we’ve just not been effective at all at finding goalies in the draft. Ever. The last quality starter we drafted was Bish in 2005, and before that it was Guy Hebert in 1987. Neither of them made their names with the Blues. The last quality starter we drafted that ended up being a benefit to the Blues was Mike Liut in 1976. I’m not sure how you build a winning team if you’re failing that badly at finding a goalie. It’s easily the hardest position to draft for, but... 3 goalies in 43 years is just pathetic.

 

[542365]

We also drafted Konstantin Barulin, and he's a phenomenal goalie. He just never decided to come play in the NHL unfortunately.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

We also drafted Konstantin Barulin, and he's a phenomenal goalie. He just never decided to come play in the NHL unfortunately.

Eeehhhh, I’d be more willing to give us credit for CuJo, who we didn’t draft but signed out of college. Barulin and Schwarz were swings and misses; they contributed nothing to our team. The Schwarz pick especially hurt... 6 games from #17 overall, even in a fairly weak 2004 year, is brutal.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Eeehhhh, I’d be more willing to give us credit for CuJo, who we didn’t draft but signed out of college. Barulin and Schwarz were swings and misses; they contributed nothing to our team. The Schwarz pick especially hurt... 6 games from #17 overall, even in a fairly weak 2004 year, is brutal.

Schwarz was a swing and miss, especially when Schneider was there. Barulin was always a gamble. The scouts properly identified the talent, but it was simply the Russian factor.

 

[TK 421]

Eeehhhh, I’d be more willing to give us credit for CuJo, who we didn’t draft but signed out of college. Barulin and Schwarz were swings and misses; they contributed nothing to our team. The Schwarz pick especially hurt... 6 games from #17 overall, even in a fairly weak 2004 year, is brutal.

2004 was one of the weakest drafts of the 2000's. It's possible anyone we picked that year would have been a bust.

 

[Blueston]

Eeehhhh, I’d be more willing to give us credit for CuJo, who we didn’t draft but signed out of college. Barulin and Schwarz were swings and misses; they contributed nothing to our team. The Schwarz pick especially hurt... 6 games from #17 overall, even in a fairly weak 2004 year, is brutal.

I remember watching the 2004 draft and the TV folk had him ranked quite high. Consensus was he would go earlier and that we got a steal at 17. In hindsight, notsomuch.

 

[DudeLebowski]

Marek Schwarz lol. There’s a name that just doesn’t seem to want to go away.

He was the mid 2000’s Ville Husso

 

[Stealth JD]

This thread has really gotten derailed. Isn't there somewhere else to talk about goaltending?

 

[BleedBlueForever]

Anyone have thoughts about Brett Leason? Overager but looks like some mocks have him going in the 2nd. I haven't gotten to watch the world juniors to see how he looks.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Watching Jack Hughes against the Czechs.

Wow...the kid is the whole package. Wonder if this will translate into the NHL.

If the Blues get him we will be solid for a generation.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Watching Jack Hughes against the Czechs.

Wow...the kid is the whole package. Wonder if this will translate into the NHL.

If the Blues get him we will be solid for a generation.

Dare you call him generational

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

This thread has really gotten derailed. Isn't there somewhere else to talk about goaltending?

Eh, it’s sort of a conversation about drafting. We need to draft a starting-caliber goalie, regardless of who we have in the pipeline. The Johnson trade and Husso’s injury are a good illustration of why. One of Binnington and/or Husso will be in the NHL next year, barring a sudden change in confidence. In all likelihood Allen isn’t going anywhere. That means Fitzpatrick in San Antonio. There’s a decent likelihood that Binnington doesn’t return. Push the timeline ahead a few years and you’ll add Hofer to the pro lineup. There’s also no guarantee that any of them are “the answer,” and my feeling is that we shouldn’t stop drafting serious goalies until there is one.

This draft is a good one for it. Hunter Jones, Colten Ellis, Mads Sogaard, Kari Piiroinen, Ethan Anders, Trent Miner, Spencer Knight, Isaiah Saville, and Hugo Alnefelt would all be good picks. There’s also the Swedish overagers Wallstedt and Portillo that I spoke in favor of last year.

There’s also overagers to sign for free. Stephen Dhillon is risky, but could fill an open spot in Tulsa at the very least. There’s also the college players Cale Morris, Tommy Napier (a St. Louis boy), Eric Schierhorn, Devin Cooley... the list is long.

The point to all of this is that we have no excuse if we walk away from the summer without a new talented goaltender in our stable.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

Who does everyone like in the 6-10 range. *If we keep our pick i still feel like we will more than likely be drafting in this range.

 

[Brockon]

Watching Jack Hughes against the Czechs.

Wow...the kid is the whole package. Wonder if this will translate into the NHL.

If the Blues get him we will be solid for a generation.

Too busy watching CAN vs FIN. Game going into OT, after FIN ties it with 46s left in regulation.

Blues should be looking at Brett Leason with their 3rd if he's still available Good hands, high IQ.

 

[Brockon]

Eh, it’s sort of a conversation about drafting. We need to draft a starting-caliber goalie, regardless of who we have in the pipeline. The Johnson trade and Husso’s injury are a good illustration of why. One of Binnington and/or Husso will be in the NHL next year, barring a sudden change in confidence. In all likelihood Allen isn’t going anywhere. That means Fitzpatrick in San Antonio. There’s a decent likelihood that Binnington doesn’t return. Push the timeline ahead a few years and you’ll add Hofer to the pro lineup. There’s also no guarantee that any of them are “the answer,” and my feeling is that we shouldn’t stop drafting serious goalies until there is one.

This draft is a good one for it. Hunter Jones, Colten Ellis, Mads Sogaard, Kari Piiroinen, Ethan Anders, Trent Miner, Spencer Knight, Isaiah Saville, and Hugo Alnefelt would all be good picks. There’s also the Swedish overagers Wallstedt and Portillo that I spoke in favor of last year.

There’s also overagers to sign for free. Stephen Dhillon is risky, but could fill an open spot in Tulsa at the very least. There’s also the college players Cale Morris, Tommy Napier (a St. Louis boy), Eric Schierhorn, Devin Cooley... the list is long.

The point to all of this is that we have no excuse if we walk away from the summer without a new talented goaltender in our stable.

On the college note, I'd be courting both Cale Morris and watch Matthew Galajda (looking like a sophomore slump) after his hobey baker nomination in his rookie year.
Both could be valuable signings to add to the goalie pipeline

 

[Mike Liut]

Who does everyone like in the 6-10 range. *If we keep our pick i still feel like we will more than likely be drafting in this range.

Cozens or Zegras

 

[carter333167]

The thing about bad goaltending is that many coaches (and certainly our coaches) often try to compensate for that with a heavy defense-first mentality and with low-risk play, two things which naturally tend to cut into a team's offensive production. Having a good PP would help as well, and I think that's also heavily on the coaching. I have disagreed with a lot of what they've done on the PP for years.

If you have good goaltending, it's a lot easier to feel like you can be more aggressive...consistently try to gain the offensive zone with possession (at the risk of potentially turning it over and giving an odd-man break in the other direction), send three forwards low in the zone to create pressure/offense (rather than keeping that third forward high), etc.

When you don't have good goaltending, you often get the opposite, and we have definitely seen that from the Blues on the ice this year. This isn't a roster that's built to grind out low-outcome victories, and this isn't a league that rewards that style of play anymore, but the Blues have backed themselves into a corner where they think that's the only way they can win.

Maybe the offensive talent isn't good enough to be more than middle of the pack as constructed anyway, but this team (even as incoherently constructed as it is) isn't a bottom five team in terms of offensive talent. It shouldn't even be close. I firmly believe that it would be more productive with better coaching and better goaltending.

This needs to be the title post of its own thread and the thread needs to be the top sticky on this board. The points that Easton makes here are the answers to the endless and inane chicken and egg debates that occur about goaltending.

Great teams are freed up by their goaltender to take certain levels of risk to produce offense. Bad goaltenders kill the ability to take offensive risk and, thus, goal scoring dries up. The Penguins are a great example of this fact. In any case, thanks to Easton for finally addressing this issue in a cogent manner.