2019 NHL Draft, #LoseForHughes, etc.

[UnleashRasmus]

As 2018 was the season for the Sabres to bottom out to acquire the one position they've needed since Brian Campbell left, the Canucks feel like the feel good scenario for Hughes. To be honest as this is the Western Coast team I follow and go to their games when they play Arizona, I feel like it just fits. As a Sabres fan I want Cozens preferably or Kokka. #LoseforHughes in effect for the Jim Benning Pension relief fund.

 

[biturbo19]

I can see the points you’re making, and they’re valid, but Newhook can still end up on the wing and be an elite scorer with his scoring ability without disrupting play and anticipating the play like others, we see it all the time. While it’s a good trait to have, it’s not necessarily to be an elite forward, in fact some forwards can thrive off of just having that killer offensive instinct.

I’m very high on Podkolzin, in fact I even made his HF thread before he blew up because I saw raw potential ooze from his stick. He’s got the drive, he’s got the talent, but can he produce? Denisenko has the talent, but sometimes it’s just about more than that.

I think Newhook is gonna be an interesting one to watch. I'm not super familiar with him, but from what i've seen, i'm curious because i'm not sure how much of that "opportunist" quality is him as a player, vs how much is him being used as a winger at times. There's so much of his game that reminds me a ton of Matt Duchene. I think there are more than enough glimmers of what his speed with the puck can do in transition, there's potential for him to be that beastly attacking neutral zone presence to where i think you want him to have the opportunity to slice through there with the puck as much as possible. Accordingly, i think he's a guy that teams are going to want to see what he can do with that element as the more central puckhandler down the middle and give him multiple chances to prove that he's not a true Center, before closing the book on that. But like Duchene, his dynamic speed and the versatility that affords him to play a more stop/start game on the wing and on the forecheck might mean that Newhook is similarly a guy who at the "highest levels" (aka Team Canada), is mostly looked at as a winger. But it's hard to say at this point...

I'm really curious in how things develop with Newhook though. Naturally it's hard to expect we'll win the grand prize with another Hughes brother...so guys like Newhook are that next tier of interest, and there are certainly some intriguing qualities there. It's also a tough league to project. Especially for a guy who already posted some pretty eye-popping numbers D-1 year. Curiouser and curiouser.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Exactly and I can predict that you’re wrong.
Thanks though.

Lol you make no sense just stop. That’s not predicting I’m wrong that’s just being a dbag for no reason.

 

[Get North]

I would rather have the Canucks prospects take significant steps and be a competitive team this year. Guys like Gaudette, Pettersson, and Dahlen being really impressive in the NHL would be the best case scenario for me. But, the draft year is really strong on centres and we may need one if Pettersson is a winger.

Early top10 for this draft:

1. Jack Hughes, C (US U18 National Team - USDP)
2. Kaapo Kakko, RW (TPS - Liiga)
3. Dylan Cozens, C (Lethbridge - WHL)
4. Alex Turcotte, C (US U18 National Team - USDP)
5. Peyton Krebs, LW (Kootenay - WHL)
6. Kirby Dach, C (Saskatoon - WHL)
7. Bowen Byram, D (Vancouver - WHL)
8. Alex Newhook, C/W (Victoria - BCHL)
9. Cam York, D (US U18 National Team - USDP)
10. Victor Soderstrom, D (Brynas - SuperElit)

The ones of most interest for VAN are: Hughes, Cozens and Turcotte. I don't see them taking a winger, nor do I think they go with another left side dman. It will be a centre. To get one of the better ones in this draft, it's likely they need a top4 pick...

Interesting list. York is a name most don't have in their top 10, but I can see why.

What makes you list Krebs over Dach? And also, Byram as the #1D?

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'd like to hear some opinions of Zegras? He seems like a guys that got really overshadowed by some of the other NTDP centers. Pronman had him 3rd, in a tier with Turcotte, FWIW.

From what little I know of him, Zegras is creative and skilled. He can see plays develop. He can also find teammates with surprise passes. Vision and stick handling are there. His skating, board battles and defense all need work though. Has a tendency to lean towards offense, which gets him caught up ice. Probably a winger in the NHL.

He’s skilled enough to be considered with Turcotte, but I don’t see him at the same level overall. Turcotte is far more well rounded a player.

Zegras probably gets taken in the late 1st.

I would rather have the Canucks prospects take significant steps and be a competitive team this year. Guys like Gaudette, Pettersson, and Dahlen being really impressive in the NHL would be the best case scenario for me. But, the draft year is really strong on centres and we may need one if Pettersson is a winger.

Interesting list. York is a name most don't have in their top 10, but I can see why.

What makes you list Krebs over Dach? And also, Byram as the #1D?

Krebs is more aggressive, and better uses skating, body position and stick handling to create separation. Dach relies only on body position to create room, and that limits him by comparison. His skating and stick handling could improve. Great passer though. I just think Krebs is the more dangerous player.

Byram has the tools to be the best Dman in the draft. I’m not seeing a clear contender, yet. Do you have someone in mind?

HM should be Podkolzin. He will probably end up in the top10, but I need to see more.

 

[Get North]

Krebs is more aggressive, and better uses skating, body position and stick handling to create separation. Dach relies only on body position to create room, and that limits him by comparison. His skating and stick handling could improve. Great passer though. I just think Krebs is the more dangerous player.

Byram has the tools to be the best Dman in the draft. I’m not seeing a clear contender, yet. Do you have someone in mind?

HM should be Podkolzin. He will probably end up in the top10, but I need to see more.

Krebs does play well for his size, but I still think Dach with his size, speed, and passing ability is just a better player to pick in the top 10. He has franchise player potential all over him and he does have things to improve on but I think everybody in the draft does too.

I also think Byram could be the best Dman in the draft, but I also see him as a risky pick. Skating isn't that great, he's lackadaisical defensively, and sometimes he makes some bone-headed plays. Unlike a guy like Matthew Robertson, big, mobile, makes the right play everytime.

I know Byram had potential to be a #1 pick and a franchise player, but I think we need to realize he was overhyped and isn't going to be that good. He still might be a good top 4D, but at this point he shows significant flaws at times while Robertson is just getting better with potential to grow.

I also believe if you're going with a high risk pick like Byram, Broberg is probably the better bet, he's bigger, more mobile and aggressive.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Krebs does play well for his size, but I still think Dach with his size, speed, and passing ability is just a better player to pick in the top 10. He has franchise player potential all over him and he does have things to improve on but I think everybody in the draft does too.

I also think Byram could be the best Dman in the draft, but I also see him as a risky pick. Skating isn't that great, he's lackadaisical defensively, and sometimes he makes some bone-headed plays. Unlike a guy like Matthew Robertson, big, mobile, makes the right play everytime.

I know Byram had potential to be a #1 pick and a franchise player, but I think we need to realize he was overhyped and isn't going to be that good. He still might be a good top 4D, but at this point he shows significant flaws at times while Robertson is just getting better with potential to grow.

I also believe if you're going with a high risk pick like Byram, Broberg is probably the better bet, he's bigger, more mobile and aggressive.

Dach doesn't have speed. His skating is his greatest drawback. Franchise player? No, I have to disagree there. He's too reliant on the pace of others in order to get his passing game going. That doesn't scream franchise player to me. I like him as a player with top6 upside though.

Byram seems to have the greater offensive upside when compared to Robertson. Will have to study this further.

I don't the Canucks will take a D in this draft so I'm not really dissecting that area of the draft just yet.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

Yeah let's draft Krebs and Dach. I mean who's next, Flurt? Skrump? I mean stop it with these names already

 

[Get North]

Dach doesn't have speed. His skating is his greatest drawback. Franchise player? No, I have to disagree there. He's too reliant on the pace of others in order to get his passing game going. That doesn't scream franchise player to me. I like him as a player with top6 upside though.

Byram seems to have the greater offensive upside when compared to Robertson. Will have to study this further.

I don't the Canucks will take a D in this draft so I'm not really dissecting that area of the draft just yet.

Go to 2:55

He just leaves the Switzerland player in the dust and outskates Ryan Suzuki with the puck easily. You can watch the whole video, he's one of the best skaters on the ice everytime. He's so tough to contain down low because of his skating and motor. Yeah, I just don't see how he is reliant on the pace of others when he's creating plays and pushing the defenders back with his speed. If skating is his greatest drawback then he's a star in the making.

Byram probably has the niftier hands and better shot, but Robertson is much better when it comes to carrying the puck from D zone to O zone and the puck is much safer on his stick than Byram.

I hope the Canucks don't take a D, there is a lot of talent on forward, I'd say it's similar to the 2015 draft forwards wise.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

I'd be curious to see how people were projecting the 2018 top 10 at this time last yr.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Go to 2:55

He just leaves the Switzerland player in the dust and outskates Ryan Suzuki with the puck easily. You can watch the whole video, he's one of the best skaters on the ice everytime. He's so tough to contain down low because of his skating and motor. Yeah, I just don't see how he is reliant on the pace of others when he's creating plays and pushing the defenders back with his speed. If skating is his greatest drawback then he's a star in the making.

Byram probably has the niftier hands and better shot, but Robertson is much better when it comes to carrying the puck from D zone to O zone and the puck is much safer on his stick than Byram.

I hope the Canucks don't take a D, there is a lot of talent on forward, I'd say it's similar to the 2015 draft forwards wise.

I've seen that video. I contend that Dach is already going before Suzuki turns and starts himself.

Anyway, here's a few quotes from posters in the Dach thread on the prospects board:

demoninator - His skating isn't great - he looks like a kid that has grown a lot recently and hasn't figured out how to move his body fluidly yet. He skates with his shoulders and looks awkward as all hell. However, I think that is going to grow out of this in the next couple of years.

ISS Hockey Quote: "great combination of size, strength and puck skills … ‘offence first’ mentality … soft hands… good puck pursuit … quick stick … finds available".Not noted as a plus skater here.

93Leafs - Dach has some interesting tools. I'd like to see him shoot a bit more and add some explosiveness to his skating. He's still pretty young, so it can take guys who are young and tall time to add the lower and core-body strength needed to excel.

thething - When Dach was drafted he reminded me of RNH during his whl days. A tall, skinnier player with great vision, soft hands and an underrated shot. His skating wasn't and still isn't the best (although it has gotten better, especially considering his added size), which is why Krebs was taken in front of him as he was the more complete package.

Sens of Anarchy - I think he skates really well.

WeThreeKings - He can actually skate well, great agility and edge work.

landy92mack29 - He must have trained well over the summer as his skating looks a lot better and he filled out some.

I'll say that if he was recognized as an _elite_ skater, that you would not see posters give him mixed reviews as you do above. There would be no question as to his skating ability. As you see above, it is questioned. He may skate well enough, but there is no elite quality to it. He also does not shoot at all either. These are drawbacks to his game that will have his draft stock fall below Cozens, Kakko, Turcotte and maybe even Newhook at the draft. It's inevitable.

Also, Krebs is a high end skater himself. Much better than Dach, but not elite.

Your read on Robertson is probably better than my own at this point, so I will defer to your opinion. I have to watch him more to compare him to Byram.

There are at least 4 great centre picks in the top5~ this year. If the Canucks finish that low, they will walk away with a centre. I'm confident in making that projection. (Not a hard one to make)

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'd be curious to see how people were projecting the 2018 top 10 at this time last yr.

FWIW, I didn't even look at last year's draft order until December. Just the way it happened for me. When I did finally delve into it, one player jumped out almost immediately: Quinn Hughes (check my post history for evidence). Funny how things work out. (This was a stark difference for me from 2017, where I went back and forth until the end)

This year, I'm immediately drawn to one player again, Turcotte.

 

[Get North]

I've seen that video. I contend that Dach is already going before Suzuki turns and starts himself.

Anyway, here's a few quotes from posters in the Dach thread on the prospects board:

I'll say that if he was recognized as an _elite_ skater, that you would not see posters give him mixed reviews as you do above. There would be no question as to his skating ability. As you see above, it is questioned. He may skate well enough, but there is no elite quality to it. He also does not shoot at all either. These are drawbacks to his game that will have his draft stock fall below Cozens, Kakko, Turcotte and maybe even Newhook at the draft. It's inevitable.

Also, Krebs is a high end skater himself. Much better than Dach, but not elite.

Your read on Robertson is probably better than my own at this point, so I will defer to your opinion. I have to watch him more to compare him to Byram.

There are at least 4 great centre picks in the top5~ this year. If the Canucks finish that low, they will walk away with a centre. I'm confident in making that projection. (Not a hard one to make)

The first quote was from over a year ago, and the third and fourth were from last season. The next 3 quotes were posted less than a month ago. That's what the consensus has been from posters on here recently. He may not have been a good skater a year ago, but he's definitely improved it. I don't think there's any denying it, he's a great skater. I think shooting the puck is something Dach needs to improve on, but his shot is good and he needs to be selfish at times. Turcotte, Kakko, Cozens, and Newhook all have their own weaknesses as well, but I would say Dach's weaknesses are the least concerning.

If Krebs is a high end skater, I would be interested in how good you think Horvat's skating is.

 

[Bleach Clean]

The first quote was from over a year ago, and the third and fourth were from last season. The next 3 quotes were posted less than a month ago. That's what the consensus has been from posters on here recently. He may not have been a good skater a year ago, but he's definitely improved it. I don't think there's any denying it, he's a great skater. I think shooting the puck is something Dach needs to improve on, but his shot is good and he needs to be selfish at times. Turcotte, Kakko, Cozens, and Newhook all have their own weaknesses as well, but I would say Dach's weaknesses are the least concerning.

If Krebs is a high end skater, I would be interested in how good you think Horvat's skating is.

I'm not sure what Horvat's skating has to do with this? Odd question.

The premise of the argument is: Is Dach an "elite skater"? I say no. You say yes. I'm using loose quotes of people criticizing his skating. The latest of which was made on Mar. 23rd, 2018. I'm also including positive quotes made on Aug. 13th, 2018. That shows that some posters perceive his skating to have improved in 4~ months... Ok, but where do we go from "improved" to now being "elite"? That's a massive leap. That's saying that not only has he improved his skating, he's improved it to be one of the best skaters in the draft. Hughes level or higher. I find that very hard to accept at this early stage.

Anyway, it's no big thing. You like his skating, fair. I expect him to be hovering around the top5 for this draft, so I think we're splitting hairs. He's a very good prospect from what I can see.

 

[Get North]

I'm not sure what Horvat's skating has to do with this? Odd question.

The premise of the argument is: Is Dach an "elite skater"? I say no. You say yes. I'm using loose quotes of people criticizing his skating. The latest of which was made on Mar. 23rd, 2018. I'm also including positive quotes made on Aug. 13th, 2018. That shows that some posters perceive his skating to have improved in 4~ months... Ok, but where do we go from "improved" to now being "elite"? That's a massive leap. That's saying that not only has he improved his skating, he's improved it to be one of the best skaters in the draft. Hughes level or higher. I find that very hard to accept at this early stage.

Anyway, it's no big thing. You like his skating, fair. I expect him to be hovering around the top5 for this draft, so I think we're splitting hairs. He's a very good prospect from what I can see.

Well you clearly think Krebs is a high end skater, so Horvat is clearly better which makes him one of the best in the world? Not sure how Krebs can be considered high end and Dach a bad skater in your mind.

Who said Dach was an elite skater? I’m saying he’s a great skater. He wasn’t last year, he improved it and now he’s great. You think he’s a bad skater. Many people at this time, disagree with your opinion of Dach’s skating.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Well you clearly think Krebs is a high end skater, so Horvat is clearly better which makes him one of the best in the world? Not sure how Krebs can be considered high end and Dach a bad skater in your mind.

Who said Dach was an elite skater? I’m saying he’s a great skater. He wasn’t last year, he improved it and now he’s great. You think he’s a bad skater. Many people at this time, disagree with your opinion of Dach’s skating.

So he's not an elite skater, but he's a greater skater...? Can you define the difference just so we're on the same page? Thx. Also, an NHL example would be good too, for reference.

The last post to criticize his skating in that thread was Mar. 23, 2018... 4 months ago. He wasn't a great skater 4 months ago, but he's improved to be _great_ now... 4 months. Could there possibly be some recency bias due to the Hlinka tournament? Maybe? Kinda?

GT, I don't want to go back and forth on this. I don't think Dach's skating is a plus trait. That's not even saying it's bad, it's just projecting him to be a passable skater at the NHL level. Average. He's not plodding or anything. Simply, decent. You're saying he's a great skater. Projected to be a great skater at the NHL level. If that's the case, let's define great vs. average (agreed examples for each), and put it to a poll on the main board? I'm not opposed to overturning my opinion. Early in the prospect review so who cares. Up for it?

 

[Get North]

So he's not an elite skater, but he's a greater skater...? Can you define the difference just so we're on the same page? Thx. Also, an NHL example would be good too, for reference.

The last post to criticize his skating in that thread was Mar. 23, 2018... 4 months ago. He wasn't a great skater 4 months ago, but he's improved to be _great_ now... 4 months. Could there possibly be some recency bias due to the Hlinka tournament? Maybe? Kinda?

GT, I don't want to go back and forth on this. I don't think Dach's skating is a plus trait. That's not even saying it's bad, it's just projecting him to be a passable skater at the NHL level. Average. He's not plodding or anything. Simply, decent. You're saying he's a great skater. Projected to be a great skater at the NHL level. If that's the case, let's define great vs. average (agreed examples for each), and put it to a poll on the main board? I'm not opposed to overturning my opinion. Early in the prospect review so who cares. Up for it?

Elite is best of the best, like a McDavid/MacKinnon. Great is much better than average NHLers, like a Carter/Kesler, good is better than average NHLers like a Benn/Pavelski. I think Dach is like a Carter, 6’4 frame with a lot of speed. Dach isn’t a perfect skater but he’s got great speed and balance which is impressive considering he’s a 17 year old 6’4 kid. Krebs isn’t faster than Dach, I’ve seen both play and Dach will blow past Krebs. Krebs reminds me of Horvat in junior, decent agility, balance, but the speed just isn’t there. No separation speed.

What bias? I’m confused as to what bias people would have from watching top prospects play in a tournament.

You can put up a poll and ask people if Krebs is a high end skater as well.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Elite is best of the best, like a McDavid/MacKinnon. Great is much better than average NHLers, like a Carter/Kesler, good is better than average NHLers like a Benn/Pavelski. I think Dach is like a Carter, 6’4 frame with a lot of speed. Dach isn’t a perfect skater but he’s got great speed and balance which is impressive considering he’s a 17 year old 6’4 kid. Krebs isn’t faster than Dach, I’ve seen both play and Dach will blow past Krebs. Krebs reminds me of Horvat in junior, decent agility, balance, but the speed just isn’t there. No separation speed.

What bias? I’m confused as to what bias people would have from watching top prospects play in a tournament.

You can put up a poll and ask people if Krebs is a high end skater as well.

Why don't we simplify it to: Better skater: Dach or Krebs? I think that would resolve the base question without requiring two polls. Let me know and I'll put it up.

FYI, I won't post a leading question in the OP in order to sway opinion. It will be straight up. You can PM me if you think there's anything wrong.

 

[Get North]

Why don't we simplify it to: Better skater: Dach or Krebs? I think that would resolve the base question without requiring two pools. Let me know and I'll put it up.

FYI, I won't post a leading question in the OP in order to sway opinion. It will be straight up. You can PM me if you think there's anything wrong.

Yeah, sure go ahead.

My point always was that Dach is a strong skater, so if Krebs is considered a better skater than Dach, it doesn't really change my opinion.

 

[Bleach Clean]

As an aside, what do people make of Dach's personality given this interview:

 

[Josepho]

seems like a normal hockey player to me.

 

[Bleach Clean]

seems like a normal hockey player to me.

It’s definitely different in terms of tone. Almost all hockey players are self effacing and humble to a fault. This interview conveys a high level of confidence, bordering on arrogance. I don’t have an issue with it. There have been arrogant stars in the past who are also elite hockey players, but will this type of player fly with this regime? I think back to the McCann situation and wonder.

 

[Josepho]

It’s definitely different in terms of tone. Almost all hockey players are self effacing and humble to a fault. This interview conveys a high level of confidence, bordering on arrogance. I don’t have an issue with it. There have been arrogant stars in the past who are also elite hockey players, but will this type of player fly with this regime? I think back to the McCann situation and wonder.

Juolevi and Hughes both seem to have the same sort of attitude.

He was just describing how he played and he's done nothing but dominate every level he's played at so far.

I don't get why this sort of thing is fixated on, it's not a talking point in any other sport.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Juolevi and Hughes both seem to have the same sort of attitude.

He was just describing how he played and he's done nothing but dominate every level he's played at so far.

I don't get why this sort of thing is fixated on, it's not a talking point in any other sport.

Well, hockey is a different sport, so why would the same rules apply? The culture has grown to nurture humility. That’s the baseline. Interviews like this stand out for exactly that reason.

Dach is not just describing how he plays, he’s commending his play. He’s propping it up. Meanwhile, most hockey players downplay their contributions. This is atypical.

I’m not sure you can say that Hughes and Juolevi depict the same attitude.

Look, it doesn’t matter that he’s arrogant or overconfident. This team jettisoned McCann for having personality issues. Could that apply here? Would it sway them from picking Dach? That’s the question.

 

[Tonystretcher]

Why don't we simplify it to: Better skater: Dach or Krebs? I think that would resolve the base question without requiring two polls. Let me know and I'll put it up.

FYI, I won't post a leading question in the OP in order to sway opinion. It will be straight up. You can PM me if you think there's anything wrong.

I think Dach tends to stop moving his feet when he gets the puck on his stick and tries to slow the game down. Similar to the way Getzlaf and Thornton hold onto the puck. Kind of makes him look slower than he really is. With the combonation of his high IQ and strength I think he will be able to create space for himself just fine and skating won’t be an issue at all.