GDT: 2019 IIHF World Championship III (OP Warning)

[BenedictGomez]

No you aren't going to frame my opinion to your liking...It doesn't work that way.

Okay!

Then who do you think the Devils should draft #1 this year, Hughes or Kakko?

I've watched from afar as this has all been very amusing to me, but I cant believe people have let this go on so long without making you answer this simple question (which I dont think you will answer) as others have.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I *DO* think there's a fair amount of group think in the scouting community. What I've seen is that some reports are almost apologetic about ranking someone far out of line compared to others. I can't remember who it was, but someone had Podkolzin at 14th and was busy defending himself before he even got any criticism. As it turns out, it seemed to open the flood gates and suddenly everyone had him dropping drastically too (although not that far).

Even @StevenToddIves likes to point out where his ratings are far different than others... maybe not apologetic about it, but at times it almost feels like he's challenging us to question him to get his explanation. I think that's partially because there's a lot of criticism from the fans when a prognosticator is way off the beaten path.

That's an excellent point. I never really thought of that.

If it helps, I can say that I like to scream it to the mountaintops when I feel a player is sorely underrated. Some of these kids ranked in the 40-75 range get very little attention leading up to the draft, and when I see a kid like Jamieson Rees or John Beecher or Lassi Thomson who I feel deserves far more attention than they are receiving, I try to give it to them.

When I think prospects are highly overrated however, I would prefer not to call attention to it. It is troublesome to me to pick apart a teenager chasing a dream, even if I believe his game is flawed enough that it could prevent him from achieving this dream. There was a kid picked in the first round by Minnesota last year whom I felt shouldn't have even been considered as a top 100 pick overall. I'd prefer not to make fun of the kid, and instead tend to go after the executive who was behind the pick. And believe me, I have no problem ripping apart the utter incompetency of Wild GM Paul Fenton.

In the end, I'd guess that right now the entire Rees family follows me on Twitter now. Of course, they will unfollow me right after the draft. But it must be nice for them to read one very minor draft writer constantly writing that their kid is much better than most people realize and should be a first-round pick.

 

[GameSeven]

I don't believe that #1 is a clear, "no brainer" choice. That is the only point.


But 3 out 5 dentist say otherwise.

Then come out with your own Round 1 Mock then? Or is it just simpler to argue against consensus without going on the record for later review?

With respect to your knocks against Hughes, where would you expect an actual honest assessment for where he should be drafted?

 

[JimEIV]

Okay!

Then who do you think the Devils should draft #1 this year, Hughes or Kakko?

I've watched from afar as this has all been very amusing to me, but I cant believe people have let this go on so long without making you answer this simple question (which I dont think you will answer) as others have.

My whole is point is I don't know and I am convinced you don't either...You have literally offered nothing other than "consensus" - I also think it is bizarre so many here are refusing to litigate the issue - It's a devils message boards for gripes sake.

I think Kakko is without doubt better right now and I do think Hughes has a lot more development to do...I am more comfortable with the player I think Kakko will be...Not sure what Jack will be. I have said this on numerous occasions.

But you and others that believe otherwise offer no numbers, no facts, not much of anything to back your opinion.

 

[GameChanger]

I hope you don't mind me popping in for a moment. First I emphasize that Hughes and Kakko are two terrific prospects and I won't try to say which one I think you guys should choose.

But I can't resist saying that it's been strange to watch this conversation or lack of conversation. I mean first the conversation wasn't really allowed and the Kakko thread was closed, right? Then the converstion started in the Hughes thread and that was also closed, right? Now there's discussion in the WHC thread as obviously a Hughes vs. Kakko or who to pick at #1 threads wouldn't be allowed? So to me it seems a bit of discussion is allowed, but if it gets too serious different measures are used to control it.

I also think that @Aethon has had some valid points (as many others over here) and it's been sad to see how he's been attacked. You don't need to agree with his view, but IMO what he's said has actually been quite mild (e.g. compared to some other posters over here) and usually put in a constructive way.

I'm a man of principle and I always encourage open talk. I also emphasize that whoever your team selects should become a great player and I wish you all the best for the next season! I really hope I didn't manage to offend anyone as that was not my intention.

 

[Missionhockey]

You can make a legitimate argument Hughes wasn't the best on the USNDTP -- I wouldn't make that argument...But it is something to look at....The thing that strikes me is how many good players there are here. And that needs to be factored in when looking at the "Body of work"

2.15 PPG for Turcotte
2 PPG for Hughes
1.5 PPG for Boldy
1.48 PPG for Zegras
1.46 PPG for Caufield
1.18 PPG for York* Dman

#	Player Name	Pos.	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	Birthplace	Age
6	Jack Hughes	C	24	12	36	48	4	17						FL: Orlando	17
9	Matthew Boldy	L	28	17	26	43	16	14						MA: Millis	17
13	Cole Caufield	R	28	29	12	41	23	19						WI: Stevens Point	17
11	Trevor Zegras	C	27	14	26	40	34	18						NY: Bedford	17
19	Alex Turcotte	C	16	12	22	34	14	27						IL: Island Lake	17
2	Cam York	D	28	7	26	33	12	40						CA: Anaheim Hills	17

[THEAD] [/THEAD]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Alright we’ll obviously that’s a different point.

Frankly I don’t think he should be docked for playing on a good team especially considering the pretty unique circumstances of that team. Plus to me, he was clearly the best of a really good bunch, even you decline to make the argument that he isn’t. Only Turcotte comes close and there just isn’t enough of a sample size to justify taking Turcotte over Hughes. He had a dominant year production wise, I don’t think there’s anyway around that point.

In comparison to Kakko who was tied for 3rd on his team in scoring. Now I’m not saying that isn’t impressive, but is that something that Jack couldn’t have done? Everything from here on out is speculation, but I suspect that his vision and skating would have kept him on par with Kakko in the Finnish league, maybe even slightly outpacing him because Jack is more of a playmaker and the bigger ice, coupled with his skating, might have given him room to showcase that more. Again, pure speculation.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I think Kakko is without doubt better right now and I do think Hughes has a lot more development to do...I am more comfortable with the player I think Kakko will be...Not sure what Jack will be. I have said this on numerous occasions.

So doesnt that mean you think the Devils should take Kakko #1?

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

 

[Missionhockey]

I don't believe that #1 is a clear, "no brainer" choice. That is the only point.


But 3 out 5 dentist say otherwise.

I think most scouting services say it’s close so I agree. But I’m still firmly in camp Jack.

 

[Call Me Al]

I also think that @Aethon has had some valid points (as many others over here) and it's been sad to see how he's been attacked. You don't need to agree with his view, but IMO what he's said has actually been quite mild (e.g. compared to some other posters over here) and usually put in a constructive way.

his reputation precedes him just fyi

the thing is there is certainly a debate about kakko vs. hughes to be had. the debate happening right now isn't hughes vs. kakko, it's as far as i can tell just arguing that people who are ranking hughes #1 right now as a draft pick might be wrong because kakko appears to be a better player at this moment because of their performances during this tournament without any consideration being given to skills, skating and hockey iq and all of the consideration being given to size. until everyone concedes the point that hughes might not develop to bet better than kakko, the pit bull isn't going to let go

 

[Call Me Al]

and the other point is that i don't think anyone is or should be convinced that hughes is 100% going to be the better player, but most are convinced that hughes has a better chance. literally nobody knows, that's the nature of predicting what will happen in the future. anyone who says they know for certain one way or the other is silly

 

[JimEIV]

So doesnt that mean you think the Devils should take Kakko #1?

No it doesn't.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

Guys what about Bowen Byram at 1

 

[JimEIV]

Guys what about Bowen Byram at 1

Bowen sound like a good sturdy name. Why not.

What is the consensus?

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

Bowen sound like a good sturdy name. Why not.

What is the consensus?

I love Byram, legit #1 D potential. Can skate well and effortlessly turns up the speed, good vision, good shot, big frame, high IQ.

 

[NJDevs26]

I hope you don't mind me popping in for a moment. First I emphasize that Hughes and Kakko are two terrific prospects and I won't try to say which one I think you guys should choose.

But I can't resist saying that it's been strange to watch this conversation or lack of conversation. I mean first the conversation wasn't really allowed and the Kakko thread was closed, right? Then the converstion started in the Hughes thread and that was also closed, right? Now there's discussion in the WHC thread as obviously a Hughes vs. Kakko or who to pick at #1 threads wouldn't be allowed? So to me it seems a bit of discussion is allowed, but if it gets too serious different measures are used to control it.

I also think that @Aethon has had some valid points (as many others over here) and it's been sad to see how he's been attacked. You don't need to agree with his view, but IMO what he's said has actually been quite mild (e.g. compared to some other posters over here) and usually put in a constructive way.

I'm a man of principle and I always encourage open talk. I also emphasize that whoever your team selects should become a great player and I wish you all the best for the next season! I really hope I didn't manage to offend anyone as that was not my intention.

There’s never been any point where ‘discussion wasn’t alllowed’, that’s a mainboard/Kakko fan fallacy. People aren’t allowed to namecall - and many of you ARE skirting the line on personal attacks with the poster in question - or talk about Kakko in a Hughes thread and vice versa, those are the reasons threads got closed.

If people want to debate points feel free, if you’re just going to debate motives of certain posters without actually addressing the points brought up that’s an attack.

 

[Blender]

I hope you don't mind me popping in for a moment. First I emphasize that Hughes and Kakko are two terrific prospects and I won't try to say which one I think you guys should choose.

But I can't resist saying that it's been strange to watch this conversation or lack of conversation. I mean first the conversation wasn't really allowed and the Kakko thread was closed, right? Then the converstion started in the Hughes thread and that was also closed, right? Now there's discussion in the WHC thread as obviously a Hughes vs. Kakko or who to pick at #1 threads wouldn't be allowed? So to me it seems a bit of discussion is allowed, but if it gets too serious different measures are used to control it.

I also think that @Aethon has had some valid points (as many others over here) and it's been sad to see how he's been attacked. You don't need to agree with his view, but IMO what he's said has actually been quite mild (e.g. compared to some other posters over here) and usually put in a constructive way.

I'm a man of principle and I always encourage open talk. I also emphasize that whoever your team selects should become a great player and I wish you all the best for the next season! I really hope I didn't manage to offend anyone as that was not my intention.

You have been reading the main board too much, most of this is a myth that never happened how it is being claimed.

 

[Tretyak 20]

Where do the best players come from in the draft and why is it seemingly so haphazard if the science of scouting is so good...But really

Your logical fallacy is appeal to authority

Toronto. Statistically speaking, the best place to draft players from is Toronto.

 

[BenedictGomez]

So doesnt that mean you think the Devils should take Kakko #1?

No it doesn't.

So doesn't that mean you think the Devils should take Hughes #1?

 

[Nubmer6]

So doesn't that mean you think the Devils should take Hughes #1?

I'm pretty sure he's saying Kakko is better right now but is undecided who will be better down the line.

 

[NJDevs26]

So doesn't that mean you think the Devils should take Hughes #1?

You know the answer, he wrote himself a couple pages back he hadn’t decided yet - which btw isn’t an outrageous POV to have at face value a month before the draft.

Now if your point is he has decided and is being misleading based on the last few pages of posts well, that may be true (I can’t reconcile the head and shoulders mantra with truly being undecided) but that’s arguing the poster, not the post or his points and we’re getting into the realm of keep personal issues with other posters off the board.

 

[OmNomNom]

I'm pretty sure he's saying Kakko is better right now but is undecided who will be better down the line.

so then why are we having pseudo debate spanning 20 pages

we're all on the same page, and prospects are always prospects bc you never know what will happen. even if they do well 1 year in the NHL, there's still no guarantee it wasn't a fluke year

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

so then why are we having pseudo debate spanning 20 pages

we're all on the same page, and prospects are always prospects bc you never know what will happen. even if they do well 1 year in the NHL, there's still no guarantee it wasn't a fluke year

I feel like this is becoming a major issue because some people are afraid that we will pick hughes and it will be a colossal mistake. That Kakko will end up the better player and we will have gifted the rangers the best player in this draft. I believe it will be very hard to determine the better player of the two in any time frame. They are two different players who are both amazing prospects and both are heads and shoulders above the class. I really dont think anyone should be stressing the situation to a great extent.

 

[JimEIV]

So doesn't that mean you think the Devils should take Hughes #1?

No, It doesn't. But I do think that is the teams decision and I wouldn't have a problem with it...I think I am leaning Jack but I really want it to be because I think so...Not because anyone says so.


3 weeks ago I was watching Hughes tear up the U18 and I just assumed he was the clear cut #1... Everyone was saying so..."Lose for Hughes", Right? I gave it no real consideration...I was more worried about the Devils season this year...

Then I saw some things that bother me a little bit during the U18 especially in the loss to Russia -- Holding on to the puck a little too long, trying to do things himself(Doing things yourself is the antithesis of "Vision" which has been so highly touted), making bad decisions with the puck, getting hit a little more than he had in the past games and not handling it particularly well. But I thought no big deal.

Then some of those things seemed a little more glaring against higher level of competition in this tournament. The turnovers became a little more prevalent... I don't think he adjusted well to less time and space...The attributes that everyone is saying make him the clear cut #1 should have shown a little better in my opinion, that is what I was expecting...While these are Pro's this isn't the cream of the crop...This isn't Crosby and Malkin coming at you in a March game with the playoffs on the line. Two weeks ago I started to think he was further behind than what everyone was saying.

So that is really where I am.

 

[Call Me Al]

would you also allow that taking a step up in age/competition level requires an adjustment period? because kakko has had that adjustment period playing in a men's league all year and these are hughes' first games, with undesirable circumstances at that. have to assume that a player with elite skills and and elite hockey brain would be able to make those adjustments but it's not necessarily going to be in 5 games with limited minutes, no pp time and inconsistent linemates