GDT: 2019 IIHF World Championship III (OP Warning)

[StevenToddIves]

Enough with the uncovering unpolished gems. Don’t you think you are making Castron’s job that much harder? If you’d just say awful things about Seider and some of the other under appreciated guys and push those narratives hard to the public and then called Castron to give him the real inside scoop I’m sure he’d thank you.

What do we think the odds are that Paul Castron has ever read anything I've written? Unfortunately, I'd have to put those odds as equivalent with Bigfoot eating Pringles on my front stairs when I get home later.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

I can't wait until the draft is over.

 

[devilsblood]

I can't wait until the draft is over.

Why cause you think the Kakko Hughes debate will then stop?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Kakko is head and shoulders above Hughes right now...

This statement is not true.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Elias Pettersson was 162 pounds at the combine in 2017... Im not worried about Hughes long term or even past his rookie year.

162 pounds at 6’2”. The technical term for that is string bean. And unless he bulked up during the season, he didn’t put on much muscle since then.

If I had Jeff Bezos money, I’d have it so that some posters here would be forced to watch the career arcs of Connor Chatham and Brayden Point on a continuous loop with theirs eye lids pried open Clockwork Orange style.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Well the pro Hughes crowd has used the "there is a scout consensus" argument in favor of Hughes. But if there are exceptions then that argument is not lock tight, so it should not be ridiculed to want to go against that consensus.

And Jim's argument stems from preferring Kakko, the guy scouts, as a consensus, have ranked #2 in the draft. That argument has ballooned a bit, but we all know he is not advocating trading our first rounders for large bundles of late rounders. Jim actually is in line with scouts to a large degree.

Now I'm still in the Hughes camp, center over winger is still the clear delineation mark for me. But having watched these guys against similar competition in this tourney, I can certainly see an argument for Kakko. Especially if we are talking right now.

The problem with him is not that he prefers one over the other, but that he drags the discussion down by making claims that are patently false or illogical. He claims to know as much or more than people that either do this for a living or devote a lot of their time to it for fun and backs it up by spewing gobbledygook about what his supposed work experience has taught him (which whatdayknow has nothing to do with evaluating amateur hockey players for the NHL draft). In other words, he dresses up his own ignorance as a form of special insight.

 

[Missionhockey]

No, It doesn't. But I do think that is the teams decision and I wouldn't have a problem with it...I think I am leaning Jack but I really want it to be because I think so...Not because anyone says so.


3 weeks ago I was watching Hughes tear up the U18 and I just assumed he was the clear cut #1... Everyone was saying so..."Lose for Hughes", Right? I gave it no real consideration...I was more worried about the Devils season this year...

Then I saw some things that bother me a little bit during the U18 especially in the loss to Russia -- Holding on to the puck a little too long, trying to do things himself(Doing things yourself is the antithesis of "Vision" which has been so highly touted), making bad decisions with the puck, getting hit a little more than he had in the past games and not handling it particularly well. But I thought no big deal.

Then some of those things seemed a little more glaring against higher level of competition in this tournament. The turnovers became a little more prevalent... I don't think he adjusted well to less time and space...The attributes that everyone is saying make him the clear cut #1 should have shown a little better in my opinion, that is what I was expecting...While these are Pro's this isn't the cream of the crop...This isn't Crosby and Malkin coming at you in a March game with the playoffs on the line. Two weeks ago I started to think he was further behind than what everyone was saying.

So that is really where I am.

These seem like things to me that can easily be coached into a player.

I also think that there are a difference in projecting skills (such as vision, edgework, puck handling) and tendencies like how you say, he does it all by himself. There are tendencies that he gets away with due to the obvious talent gap, but he still has a lot of projectable skills at the next level. Especially with everything related to skating. Hughes will probably always be a better player at carrying the puck through the neutral zone than Kakko simply due to his god given talent. They both have great vision and puck handling. Hughes' shot probably isn't as good as Kakko's, but it's still pretty good and shouldn't prevent him from being a very good offensive player.

The skill area where Hughes is clearly behind in is strength on the puck, but this also seems like a short-term concern. Sure Hughes is small now, but when he is 21-24 he'll have filled in and a grown man with his skating skills will be scary.

 

[NJDevs26]

Why cause you think the Kakko Hughes debate will then stop?

No but at least we'll have picked someone and hopefully get a break till at least the first preseason game lol

 

[MadDevil]

What do we think the odds are that Paul Castron has ever read anything I've written? Unfortunately, I'd have to put those odds as equivalent with Bigfoot eating Pringles on my front stairs when I get home later.

Brent Burns lives by you?

 

[Missionhockey]

162 pounds at 6’2”. The technical term for that is string bean. And unless he bulked up during the season, he didn’t put on much muscle since then.

If I had Jeff Bezos money, I’d have it so that some posters here would be forced to watch the career arcs of Connor Chatham and Brayden Point on a continuous loop with theirs eye lids pried open Clockwork Orange style.

Petersson also got rag dolled a lot this year. Something we'd obviously like to avoid if and when we draft Hughes. I really want to sign Michael Ferland because of that. He's got the skill to keep up with Hughes and he'll ragdoll anybody who tries to take advantage of Jack.

 

[MadDevil]

Why cause you think the Kakko Hughes debate will then stop?

The first time Kakko has a better week (or game) than Hughes it's going to be a shitshow around here.

 

[NJDevs26]

The first time Kakko has a better week (or game) than Hughes it's going to be a ****show around here.

Can't wait to see how much the first Devil-Ranger preseason game sells for on StubHub lol, then probably Hughes and/or Kakko won't play anyway.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Petersson also got rag dolled a lot this year. Something we'd obviously like to avoid if and when we draft Hughes. I really want to sign Michael Ferland because of that. He's got the skill to keep up with Hughes and he'll ragdoll anybody who tries to take advantage of Jack.

He took some cheap shots, if anything because he’s good, not because he’s skinny. A much bigger Auston Matthews has lost more time to injury than a much smaller and skinnier Mitch Marner.

We have enough guys who can stick up for Jack if necessary. More concerned with adding players who help us score goals and keep the other team from scoring goals.

 

[Missionhockey]

He took some cheap shots, if anything because he’s good, not because he’s skinny. A much bigger Auston Matthews has lost more time to injury than a much smaller and skinnier Mitch Marner.

We have enough guys who can stick up for Jack if necessary. More concerned with adding players who help us score goals and keep the other team from scoring goals.

Fortunately Ferland does that too.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Fortunately Ferland does that too.

Oh yeah, wouldn’t necessarily be against bringing him on.

 

[LoktionovMVP]

The idea of signing a big guy to protect a smaller star needs to stop. Let's say Cody McLeod takes a cheap shot at Hughes, and Ferland then goes after him. Hughes has already been hit. No deterring done there, at all. It's a silly argument. That's not to say Ferland is a bad player (i quite enjoy watching him), but signing him for that reason, especially at the salary he's likely to command, is not worth it

 

[GameChanger]

I'll reply to everyone that replied to me in one msg to keep my part smaller.

his reputation precedes him just fyi

the thing is there is certainly a debate about kakko vs. hughes to be had. the debate happening right now isn't hughes vs. kakko, it's as far as i can tell just arguing that people who are ranking hughes #1 right now as a draft pick might be wrong because kakko appears to be a better player at this moment because of their performances during this tournament without any consideration being given to skills, skating and hockey iq and all of the consideration being given to size. until everyone concedes the point that hughes might not develop to bet better than kakko, the pit bull isn't going to let go

I don't know about anyone's reputation here, I've only seen some recent posts. Like I said I won't get into the who's better discussion, but I do think he's brought some valid points and I've been a bit surprised by the reaction from the others. Now I've said enough about that as I actually understand all parties here.

As for the underlined part, I believe this is a bit unusual situation. Hughes scored phenomenal numbers last season and he was declared a highly exceptional propspect. However, this season has been IMO slightly disappointing (compared to the previous one and the expectations), while Kakko's season and especially the spring has been outstanding. So this all leaves a lot of room for different views. Like I said both players are terrific, but due to these issues it won't and shouldn't be an easy choice.

There’s never been any point where ‘discussion wasn’t alllowed’, that’s a mainboard/Kakko fan fallacy. People aren’t allowed to namecall - and many of you ARE skirting the line on personal attacks with the poster in question - or talk about Kakko in a Hughes thread and vice versa, those are the reasons threads got closed.

If people want to debate points feel free, if you’re just going to debate motives of certain posters without actually addressing the points brought up that’s an attack.

With all respect it's looked a bit different to me, but I'm just an outsider and won't argue with what you said. I also appreciate the work you guys are doing and know it's not always easy.

You have been reading the main board too much, most of this is a myth that never happened how it is being claimed.

Actually I've visited the main board just once ever. Anyway, I'll step aside now and wish you guys interesting weeks waiting for the draft day!

 

[BenedictGomez]

Impressive Jim. Most impressive.

He should teach an online class in it. That's not as crazy as it sounds, I wouldn't be surprised if you could make money doing that.

The first time Kakko has a better week (or game) than Hughes it's going to be a ****show around here.

That will be in October, because he will have a much bigger role with the Rangers than Hughes will have initially with the Devils.

Can't wait to see how much the first Devil-Ranger preseason game sells for on StubHub lol, then probably Hughes and/or Kakko won't play anyway.

I dont know if you can make good money on preseason games, but I bet they will sell, which in itself is a rarity. The first regular season game, however, I wonder if that will go for a decent premium to normal Devils/Rangers games.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Why cause you think the Kakko Hughes debate will then stop?

No. I'll just know who to root for and who to hate.

 

[TrufleShufle]

There’s never been any point where ‘discussion wasn’t alllowed’, that’s a mainboard/Kakko fan fallacy. People aren’t allowed to namecall - and many of you ARE skirting the line on personal attacks with the poster in question - or talk about Kakko in a Hughes thread and vice versa, those are the reasons threads got closed.

If people want to debate points feel free, if you’re just going to debate motives of certain posters without actually addressing the points brought up that’s an attack.

That's really not true at all... When Devils got the 1st overall pick and STI did his rundown with the idea that he wouldn't discuss the possibility of JH not going #1 under any circumstances, people jumped on board. Then a few posters started to say, wait a minute there is a lot of different hockey left, and this Kakko has a lot of attributes the Devils could use as well. They were all hit swiftly by hordes of people, making them out to be trolls and then shutting down any further discussion.

A Kakko thread was opened and locked, no mentioning of Kakko in the Hughes thread or it would be deleted, and any where else it would be looked at like an act of war by bringing up his name and the next couple pages would be filled with bickering and eventually all get deleted. So yea, there might not have been a "rule" saying that you can't talk about Kakko (leaving out the threads where there was,) but it definitely never happened with out turning into chaos and getting all deleted.

I still think its most likely Jack is coming to us, but I'm glad this tourney has played out the way it has so far, just to make it impossible to deny that there is even a chance Kakko could slip in there. So, it has been heated, but at least its actually some what of a discussion now, which is why I'm glad it happened. Nothing I hate more than topics you aren't allowed to talk about because some people can't handle it, on a discussion board no less.

 

[Devils731]

This board is spending page after page talking about Kakko, so saying the conversation isn’t allowed in the middle of the conversation happening rings hollow.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

What does any of this matter

Were picking Jack

 

[JimEIV]

These seem like things to me that can easily be coached into a player.

I also think that there are a difference in projecting skills (such as vision, edgework, puck handling) and tendencies like how you say, he does it all by himself. There are tendencies that he gets away with due to the obvious talent gap, but he still has a lot of projectable skills at the next level. Especially with everything related to skating. Hughes will probably always be a better player at carrying the puck through the neutral zone than Kakko simply due to his god given talent. They both have great vision and puck handling. Hughes' shot probably isn't as good as Kakko's, but it's still pretty good and shouldn't prevent him from being a very good offensive player.

The skill area where Hughes is clearly behind in is strength on the puck, but this also seems like a short-term concern. Sure Hughes is small now, but when he is 21-24 he'll have filled in and a grown man with his skating skills will be scary.

Good points and I agree with nearly everything you said here...but 21-24 is not short term...21 to 24 is 3 to 6 YEARS from now. 6 years is 2025....I know because my earliest retirement date is 8/1 2025. That is a long f***ing time from now.

 

[TrufleShufle]

This board is spending page after page talking about Kakko, so saying the conversation isn’t allowed in the middle of the conversation happening rings hollow.

Wasn't allowed*

It is now, but now everyone is on the defense, so it's kinda hard to read through, but at least it's happening.

 

[Polar Bear]

What does any of this matter

Were picking Jack

Because it's still a worthy discussion in terms of intrigue. It's very rare in a draft where there are two players who are pretty much equally worthy of going 1 and are both potentially elite players. Hischier/Patrick were close, but they were in a lesser league as prospects compared to Kakko/Hughes.