Rumor: 2019 Free Agent Boredom Part IV

[MarkT]

I think I get it just fine, this is just a "fantasy scenario" I simply cannot suspend my disbelief over. And I have a very vivid imagination.

But please, tell me the last time a team signed a player to a one-year deal only to flip an asset to dump that contract roughly two months later before said player played a single, solitary game. I don't have to be in Leafs management to be certain that this is not going to happen. If it does, hey, you get my avatar for one month of either this season or next season, your choice.

I don't have a vendetta against Cody Ceci, and not sure why you're even bringing that up. He is by most every metric, a terrible, awful, no-good defenseman. He can't defend at all (there's video evidence of this, go look it up) and is virtually worthless for zone exits/entries. The one thing he is good at is shooting, and the Avs already have a guy who is astoundingly good at shooting and not much else in Kevin Connauton (and Connauton is better than him defensively). He's also not really worth having in the minors as he'd just get in the way of players we'd all rather see get ice time and/or a chance to make the team.

I should also mention that the Leafs will be starting the year without Travis Dermott, so they actually need Ceci to play. He's projected to be on a pairing alongside Morgan Rielly, who has somehow gotten the short end of the stick in terms of defensive partners virtually his entire career and put up insane numbers.

Ceci will play the year with the Leafs, and either be dealt at the deadline or leave at season's end to sign elsewhere. Anyone who gives him anywhere close to his present salary will almost assuredly regret it.

I must have missed when this became an argument about whether it was likely the Leafs would trade Ceci. I've never argued it was likely. I've only argued that it's possible, and that if it's an option, the Avs should at least look into it. Then if they find they can get a good asset in the deal (like a 2nd or 3rd round pick), they should do it. Not because Ceci is good or useful, but because the asset that hypothetically comes with him would be good or useful.

And for the record, I mentioned the vendetta thing because you seem to think Ceci not even AHL-level, which is a really harsh way of talking about his abilities. I've heard people say he's bad, but you seem to have an extremely low opinion of him.

Otherwise, I honestly don't know how to reply to you beyond that because you keep conflating two different things - whether it's likely and whether it's a good idea.

 

[Pokecheque]

I must have missed when this became an argument about whether it was likely the Leafs would trade Ceci. I've never argued it was likely. I've only argued that it's possible, and that if it's an option, the Avs should at least look into it. Then if they find they can get a good asset in the deal (like a 2nd or 3rd round pick), they should do it. Not because Ceci is good or useful, but because the asset that hypothetically comes with him would be good or useful.

And for the record, I mentioned the vendetta thing because you seem to think Ceci not even AHL-level, which is a really harsh way of talking about his abilities. I've heard people say he's bad, but you seem to have an extremely low opinion of him.

Otherwise, I honestly don't know how to reply to you beyond that because you keep conflating two different things - whether it's likely and whether it's a good idea.

No, I don’t mean to imply he’s not AHL level, he’s an NHL player, just a really bad one.

I’m just saying that I don’t think he’s a big improvement over anyone on the roster and while he obviously has more experience than, say, Nic Meloche, I’d rather see him and other players for the Eagles get that ice time.

It’s fine, discuss it all you want, I just don’t see it having a remote chance of happening, even though I’ll admit there is a semi-plausible scenario (Gardiner returning) where it might.

 

[Balthazar]

No matter how many ways a team gets out-skated and out-skilled, there will always be a contingent of fans and executives who conclude the team lost because it wasn't tough enough.

Not like heavy and physical teams win cups or anything. It's the small and fast teams that win cups. #newNHL

 

[Pokecheque]

Not like heavy and physical teams win cups or anything. It's the small and fast teams that win cups. #newNHL

Oh, I forgot about the straw man arguments that invariably come out as well, like this.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Not like heavy and physical teams win cups or anything. It's the small and fast teams that win cups. #newNHL

Too bad Rinaldo went to CGY on a PTO :/

 

[cgf]

Not like heavy and physical teams win cups or anything. It's the small and fast teams that win cups. #newNHL

If only we were as tough as the Penguins n Hawks, then it wouldn’t matter that we weren't as good as them *sigh*

 

[AllAboutAvs]

It is also possible to be big, fast and skilled at the same time. I Know...#MindBlown

 

[MarkT]

Oh this argument again. I've already gone through this, but the only recent Cup winner that didn't have a bunch of big tough players was the last Penguins team. The Hawks and the other recent Penguins winner both has plenty of big players, especially on the back end. The evidence shows that to be a cup winner, you either need players like Crosby and Malkin, or you need some size and toughness at least on defense, in order to survive the playoffs long enough to win the cup. This doesn't mean you abandon speed or skill, as the bottom of the league is full of teams who lack those things but have plenty of size. What you need is a balance of everything.

 

[cgf]

Oh this argument again. I've already gone through this, but the only recent Cup winner that didn't have a bunch of big tough players was the last Penguins team. The Hawks and the other recent Penguins winner both has plenty of big players, especially on the back end. The evidence shows that to be a cup winner, you either need players like Crosby and Malkin, or you need some size and toughness at least on defense, in order to survive the playoffs long enough to win the cup. This doesn't mean you abandon speed or skill, as the bottom of the league is full of teams who lack those things but have plenty of size. What you need is a balance of everything.

Yeah, Bickell & Seabrook being on the roster still doesn't make the dynasty hawks a big team. That was a team built around its puck-moving, with a lil size down the roster.

 

[Foppberg]

This place can be summarized in a single photo

 

[MarkT]

Yeah, Bickell & Seabrook being on the roster still doesn't make the dynasty hawks a big team. That was a team built around its puck-moving, with a lil size down the roster.

Never said otherwise. My point is simply you can't call them a "small" team. Bickell and Seabrook were not their only players with size either. But I agree puck moving was the #1 thing. But I'd argue without the size they might not have won the cup. You can't win on size alone, but the recent history shows that you probably aren't going to win without size either.

 

[MarkT]

This place can be summarized in a single photo

View attachment 253047

I'll get off when the puck drops. Until then, round and round we go! Where we stop, nobody knows!

 

[cgf]

Never said otherwise. My point is simply you can't call them a "small" team. Bickell and Seabrook were not their only players with size either. But I agree puck moving was the #1 thing. But I'd argue without the size they might not have won the cup. You can't win on size alone, but the recent history shows that you probably aren't going to win without size either.

I don't see why the hell not. IIRC they were in the bottom third of the league in terms of average height or weight, in each season that they won the cup. They may not have been small for a peewee team, but compared to the rest of the NHL, they were absolutely a small team.

...and the little bit of size wasn't what won them their cups; which is ultimately the main point of this discussion. Cause it's not like we don't have size on our third pairing (EJ & Cole/Connauton) or in our bottom 6 (Wilson, Kamenev, Greer, Nichushkin all being big & not just above-average)...and that's before we remember that Zads still exists & that the big line is big.

So if all that matters is having a couple chubbies down the lineup, then we're already gucci. As ultimately, the hawks were no bigger than we already are, especially in their latter runs.

 

[cgf]

This place can be summarized in a single photo

View attachment 253047

 

[MarkT]

I don't see why the hell not. IIRC they were in the bottom third of the league in terms of average height or weight, in each season that they won the cup. They may not have been small for a peewee team, but compared to the rest of the NHL, they were absolutely a small team.

...and the little bit of size wasn't what won them their cups; which is ultimately the main point of this discussion. Cause it's not like we don't have size on our third pairing (EJ & Cole/Connauton) or in our bottom 6 (Wilson, Kamenev, Greer, Nichushkin all being big & not just above-average)...and that's before we remember that Zads still exists & that the big line is big.

So if all that matters is having a couple chubbies down the lineup, then we're already gucci. As ultimately, the hawks were no bigger than we already are, especially in their latter runs.

Um... I never said the Avs aren't big enough. I actually think that's one of our strengths.

 

[cgf]

Um... I never said the Avs aren't big enough. I actually think that's one of our strengths.

My bad then. Must be mixing you up with one of the ghosts that tried to argue that the hawks weren't a small team, as well.

I really should quit procrastinating, hop in the shower & head to class

 

[S E P H]

I was told that Kamenev is healthy for training camp and that Zadorov himself thinks it is very possible that he could realistically be on Seattle in a couple of years.

 

[Ararana]

I was told that Kamenev is healthy for training camp and that Zadorov himself thinks it is very possible that he could realistically be on Seattle in a couple of years.

Am I the only one that would be surprised if he's still in Colorado come the expansion draft?

 

[henchman21]

Am I the only one that would be surprised if he's still in Colorado come the expansion draft?

Even if he isn't in Colorado, he makes sense as an expansion target. Likely not good enough to be protected, but good enough to have a role on a team. Seattle can get an every night defensemen out of him, and on his good stretches, he can help cover the top 4. If I was building a team out of scraps, he'd be one of my top targets.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I’m a big Zadorov fan. I feel his presence alone makes a major positive impact on the game. However if we escape expansion with the only blow to our team being the loss of big Z I’ll be jumping for joy.

I’d miss him. I’d f***ing hate to play against him. but he is what he is.

 

[S E P H]

Am I the only one that would be surprised if he's still in Colorado come the expansion draft?

Probably different perspectives, a lot of players don't focus on themselves in the public light such as reading newspapers, looking at Facebook comments, or twitter comments. A lot tend to tune that stuff out besides Canadian teams which is almost impossible to do. Moreover, Zadorov already had an early start on a family and his kids probably keep him very busy where he doesn't have a lot of extra downtime.

On the fan perspective, I am absolutely 100% with you that he's gotta be one of the highest ones "on back of Joe's mind trade list", especially if Byram comes in and steals the show akin to Drew Doughty. Not really talking about this season, but could happen next offseason as we've already seen it with Barrie. I am also in agreement with Hench that perhaps he finds himself traded and still finds himself on Seattle. I love me some Zadorov, but I hope I am also not biased enough to see that at the current stage he's a borderline defender.

 

[Ararana]

I love me some Zadorov, but I hope I am also not biased enough to see that at the current stage he's a borderline defender.

Zadorov might be the most bi-polar hockey player I've ever seen. It's crazy how good or how bad he can be depending on where the dice land that night.

 

[Raucherhusten]

Barrie might be the most bi-polar hockey player I've ever seen. It's crazy how good or how bad he can be depending on where the dice land that night.

You're welcome.

 

[Foppberg]

I’m a big Zadorov fan. I feel his presence alone makes a major positive impact on the game. However if we escape expansion with the only blow to our team being the loss of big Z I’ll be jumping for joy.

I’d miss him. I’d ****ing hate to play against him. but he is what he is.

Perfect? Agreed.

 

[Foxtail]

Yeah, Bickell & Seabrook being on the roster still doesn't make the dynasty hawks a big team. That was a team built around its puck-moving, with a lil size down the roster.

Yes but Seabrook was a physical specimen and the Keith/,Seabrook playing 30.+ minutes a night is the biggest reason they won 3 Cups. Best pairing in the league for quite some time.