2019 Entry Draft Thread: Part III

[The Great Weal]

He's always been in my top-3. Got him and Kakko fighting for the #2 slot. I'm high on Kakko but I don't think he's a lock at #2, at least not the way Svechnikov was.

Interesting. I think Kakko has a better shot of going 1st overall than dropping to 3.

 

[The Great Weal]

2020 looks like a damn good draft as well. Need to keep an eye on that Lundell kid.

 

[G0bias]

^Yup. Also watch out for Noel Gunler, who's off to a terrific start. Now 1+2 in 4 SHL games after tearing up J20s (25 in 15gp).


(funnily enough he's playing on a line with Nils (#27), who Lulea moved to forward)

 

[The Great Weal]

If we are picking mid 1st, I hope Newhook falls since he is playing in a worse league.

 

[montreal]

And why is Brett Leason putting up these numbers

watched him last night, needs to get quicker.

Brook's younger brother might be someone to keep an eye on for the '20 draft. Same for Josh's d partner, Daemon Hunt although we'll see how he looks next year without Brook but for a 16 year old he didn't look bad.

Also thought Daniil Stepanov played a good game, maybe someone to look at for a late round pick perhaps. First time seeing him.

 

[Habs76]

2020 looks like a damn good draft as well. Need to keep an eye on that Lundell kid.

Yeah, I'm super high on Lundell too. I'd pick him top 5.

 

[Per Sjoblom]

^Yup. Also watch out for Noel Gunler, who's off to a terrific start. Now 1+2 in 4 SHL games after tearing up J20s (25 in 15gp).


(funnily enough he's playing on a line with Nils (#27), who Lulea moved to forward)

I went up to Luleå in January for work many years ago and it was so cold that any icy streets were not even slippery (-32). Looked like Amundsen when I arrived at my hotel after a "refreshing" walk with frosty bushy eyebrows.
I asked the locals what the best thing living there in the winter was, they all said: "it's mosquito free"

 

[Andrei79]

Its all fun, but how do you really slice Cozen and Dach ? I can't make up my mind, at all.

I like how Dach makes guys commit all the time when he's in the O zone. He's got a good pace, but he's also always thinking how to f*** up coverage. He's got soft hands and great vision that help him there too.

Cozens has more speed, but sometimes he tries to make plays by skating straight into traffic, which just doesn't work ever in the NHL. Both are still in my top 5, but Dach's no 3 spot is just clearer for me.

 

[The Great Weal]

I like how Dach makes guys commit all the time when he's in the O zone. He's got a good pace, but he's also always thinking how to **** up coverage. He's got soft hands and great vision that help him there too.

Cozens has more speed, but sometimes he tries to make plays by skating straight into traffic, which just doesn't work ever in the NHL. Both are still in my top 5, but Dach's no 3 spot is just clearer for me.

There is still a lot of hockey left, but I think Dach has solidified himself for my #3 spot. Cozens is at 4 now, but I think Turcotte can challenge him once he is back.

 

[Andrei79]

Just an FYI, the Athletic has a great article on how they approach their development and it is almost to a tee what most of us have tried explain in the Kotka thread. It even says, word for word, how they want all of their players to master a level (NCAA/AHL) before they move on to the next. They want guys to be truly ready before they make the NHL and the reasons are all explained, but we know them.

 

[Mrb1p]

I like Cozens as a goal scorer though, he's a good player and I don't see it as night and day as you guys do, but then again, Im not even sure Kakko is a solid number two too. I really have a hard time sizing it up. Ive seen some meh performances from Dach, Ive seen some great ones from him, every time Ive watched Cozens he was assertive and really directed the play on the ice, and that gives me a scout boner. Same with Turcotte. Ive seen pretty and smart plays by Kakko but Ive seen some offense that might not translate at times. He runs himself into players, I find. (Weird that I haven't caught that for Cozens, but did for Kakko.)

Then there's Newhook that I still haven't watched, and that I likely won't even watch.

 

[Andrei79]

I like Cozens as a goal scorer though, he's a good player and I don't see it as night and day as you guys do, but then again, Im not even sure Kakko is a solid number two too. I really have a hard time sizing it up. Ive seen some meh performances from Dach, Ive seen some great ones from him, every time Ive watched Cozens he was assertive and really directed the play on the ice, and that gives me a scout *****. Same with Turcotte. Ive seen pretty and smart plays by Kakko but Ive seen some offense that might not translate at times. He runs himself into players, I find. (Weird that I haven't caught that for Cozens, but did for Kakko.)

Then there's Newhook that I still haven't watched, and that I likely won't even watch.

Got an example of Kakko points that wouldnt translate ? I've seen the opposite: a lot of plays that would be goals if he was surrounded by NHL talent being flubbed by teammates.

Same with Cozens/Dach, I feel you have it the other way around. Cozens carries more, often not smartly, but Dach dictates. He's constantly forcing Ds to commit, change angle of their skates, forcing switches, its just no surprise he's producing so much because he's forcing defenses to break down and create openings. He makes his linemates better than Cozens that way. Alot can change though so I dont think its night and day, just clearer whos 3 atm, whatever value that holds.

About Newhook, Ive only seen him less than a handful of times but he did not look like a top 10 pick. He may just be starting slow though,

 

[The Great Weal]

Anyone know much about Jake Lee? Pretty young kid who is a LHD. 14 points in 12 games so far.

 

[montreal]

Anyone know much about Jake Lee? Pretty young kid who is a LHD. 14 points in 12 games so far.

I saw him last year but can't remember him, will see him at some point this year when Tyszka is back.

 

[Mrb1p]

Got an example of Kakko points that wouldnt translate ? I've seen the opposite: a lot of plays that would be goals if he was surrounded by NHL talent being flubbed by teammates.

Same with Cozens/Dach, I feel you have it the other way around. Cozens carries more, often not smartly, but Dach dictates. He's constantly forcing Ds to commit, change angle of their skates, forcing switches, its just no surprise he's producing so much because he's forcing defenses to break down and create openings. He makes his linemates better than Cozens that way. Alot can change though so I dont think its night and day, just clearer whos 3 atm, whatever value that holds.

About Newhook, Ive only seen him less than a handful of times but he did not look like a top 10 pick. He may just be starting slow though,

Didn't mean Dach did not dictate, he does, but Cozens does it with more intensity, to me. I see more raw skill on Dach than Cozen though.

As for Kakko, it's not necessarily goals, and yeah, he does good things too, but there's some things that he'll need to shake off, Ive seen him try and roll around on defenders many times, and it rarely works at the NHL level, but Kakko might be the type of talent to pull it off in the NHL, anyway.

It's not about them sucking, but about three/four of them being so damn great.

 

[Andrei79]

I saw him last year but can't remember him, will see him at some point this year when Tyszka is back.

Feel free to also report on Hamaliuk.

 

[montreal]

just got done watching Hillis play vs Erie from last week. Chad Yetman had a hattrick so clearly he was impressive, so I looked him up, was passed over at last years draft as a rookie but had just 9 goals. He had 7 in 14 games so far. Might be someone to keep an eye on.

The player for Erie that impressed me the most was another overager, Gera Poddubnyi, he was passed over in 2 drafts. Big frame, was all over the ice, had a few assists. Had only 36 pts last year but has 16 already this year in 14 games. Might be someone that if he doesn't get drafted you invite to the development camp depending on how he does the rest of the season.

 

[yianik]

Just an FYI, the Athletic has a great article on how they approach their development and it is almost to a tee what most of us have tried explain in the Kotka thread. It even says, word for word, how they want all of their players to master a level (NCAA/AHL) before they move on to the next. They want guys to be truly ready before they make the NHL and the reasons are all explained, but we know them.

On how who approaches development ?

 

[Andrei79]

On how who approaches development ?

Winnipeg.

 

[Mrb1p]

Heres a good example of what Im on about Kakko. Watch the prime scoring opportunity hes in at 2 seconds, and he just decides to not go for it.

Edit: Im dumb he lost the puck on that one. Enjoy the stickhandling wizardry



He still creates a goal though

 

[yianik]

Winnipeg.

Okay. Thought you might mean the Habs and I was thinking WTF, that isnt reality. Yeah, this isnt some "new thing", has been around forever that you let your top prospects dominate at lower levels before taking the next step.

 

[Andrei79]

Heres a good example of what Im on about Kakko. Watch the prime scoring opportunity hes in at 2 seconds, and he just decides to not go for it.

Edit: Im dumb he lost the puck on that one. Enjoy the stickhandling wizardry



He still creates a goal though

I think you still deserve an ass-whoop for bringing up that clip even with that edit. It's filled with what translates in the NHL. Look at how he reads where the LD is and uses his stickhandling to decieve the RD into committing into a play. He then perfectly times his deke with when the RD changes the angle of his skates. The other option was using him as a screen to shoot, but man, he had open space on his right (on the LD side) and found a way to use it while keeping his feet moving while stickhandling.

And then... he just constantly makes the defense commit to either go for him or stay back (both creating space), forces switches and positioning errors and creates space until they eventually score. It's a fantastic combination of skating ability that needs to be mastered for high end players (cutbacks, tight turns), puckhandling and smart reads of the defense.

 

[Andrei79]

Okay. Thought you might mean the Habs and I was thinking WTF, that isnt reality. Yeah, this isnt some "new thing", has been around forever that you let your top prospects dominate at lower levels before taking the next step.

No, I forgot one word in there lol. I'll say though that from when Savard took over the team to his departure as assistant-GM, this was how the team developped its players with a lot of success.

We saw a number of changes including being coaffiliated to the Bulldogs with the Oilers and a stronger emphasis on coaching there. Just look at Jarvis and how much time he used to spend with Kostitsyn to make sure his game would make it to the NHL.

And, during the Savard tenure (+around 1-2 more years) we had a number of guys who were left a long time to develop join the team and make some sort of impact: Komisarek, Higgins, Kostitsyn, Ryder, Ribeiro, Plekanec, Grabovski... the rushing really started when he left with guys like Price, Latendresse, Sergei Kostitsym and later on with Pacioretty (and everyone we know since 2008).

They made some great points about Winnipeg as well, from letting guys master one level, not being fans of 18 year olds in the NHL (Laine of course, being an "exception" type player having had some historic runs against men during his draft year) and even talking to prospects after each of their games and asking them to write files about each of them. They also put emphasis on the importance of a strong AHL system.

Basically a lot of things some people here don't believe in, despite the amount of case reports from successful teams at drafting/developing that don't rush like we do, nor do they put token coaches in the AHL.

 

[Mrb1p]

I think you still deserve an ass-whoop for bringing up that clip even with that edit. It's filled with what translates in the NHL. Look at how he reads where the LD is and uses his stickhandling to decieve the RD into committing into a play. He then perfectly times his deke with when the RD changes the angle of his skates. The other option was using him as a screen to shoot, but man, he had open space on his right (on the LD side) and found a way to use it while keeping his feet moving while stickhandling.

And then... he just constantly makes the defense commit to either go for him and stay back (both creating space), forces switches and positioning errors and creates space until they eventually score. It's a fantastic combination of skating ability that needs to be master for high end players (cutbacks, tight turns), puckhandling and smart reads of the defense.

He does, you're absolutely right.

But I can find a ton of videos from a certain 2013 pick that does all of those things too, and he didn't turn out like expected. I see some serious similarities.

I just watched Pelicans vs TPS, and the same can be said. He really fell off a lot from his early season play. I need to see more again. He also didn't seem to hustle at all, compared to what Ive seen early in the season. He basically went from playing like Forsberg (The better one) to Drouin. I don't like that.

On another note, Ylonen had a few good shifts and hustled hard, but didn't play much.

 

[Andrei79]

He does, you're absolutely right.

But I can find a ton of videos from a certain 2013 pick that does all of those things too, and he didn't turn out like expected. I see some serious similarities.

I just watched Pelicans vs TPS, and the same can be said. He really fell off a lot from his early season play. I need to see more again. He also didn't seem to hustle at all, compared to what Ive seen early in the season. He basically went from playing like Forsberg (The better one) to Drouin. I don't like that.

On another note, Ylonen had a few good shifts and hustled hard, but didn't play much.

I remember Drouin getting a lot of goals from unscreened shots and one on oneing junior defenses while looking at the puck. Even his famous best shift of the year that's what he's doing. He's not reading anything, he's just deking guys until he gets in front of the net.

That's not what Kakko's doing here. He's reading, reacting and forcing pro players to commit to a decision (usually a bad one) so that his teammates get the slot open (which eventually happened). He's not trying to pure outskill guys. He's not getting points from junior level misreads who wrongly commit even after the player on offense has already committed himself to a deke. He's making pro players try to read him and taking note of how they angle their skates.

But it's true that I haven't watched his recent games.