Rumor: 2019-2020 Trade Rumours and Free Agent Discussion Part 3

[CB Joe]

I'd be surprised to see Calgary move Gaudreau unless he's asked for a trade. If it got to that point I think the Flames would be looking for a hockey trade and I don't know who the Avs could offer other than Kadri. We know the Flames were interested but trading Kadri seems like a step back.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I'd be surprised to see Calgary move Gaudreau unless he's asked for a trade. If it got to that point I think the Flames would be looking for a hockey trade and I don't know who the Avs could offer other than Kadri. We know the Flames were interested but trading Kadri seems like a step back.

Kadri already declined to go there. There isn’t a GM in the world dumb enough to ask A newly acquired player to waive to go to a team he refused to go to just 4 months ago.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't really believe the Flames will trade Gaudreau any time soon, but I wouldn't want to give up the assets needed anyway. It would surely cost Byram and the Avs need Byram more than they need Gaudreau.

The Avs need to do everything they can to keep Makar, Girard, Byram, and Timmins. That top 4 will keep them competitive for a decade, and it's not like there's evidence the Avs can easily replace them. It's taken them over a decade to get that kind of top 4.

They likely won't have another top 10 pick for a little while, if the team plays to its potential. There won't be any more Makar's and Byram's coming from the draft unless they get lucky, and they don't have any more Duchene's and ROR's to trade for high end defenseman.

 

[Gatorbait19]

He's not completely on his own in Calgary, though. Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Backlund are all top-6 guys. Not at the level of MacKinnon or Rantanen, but still good enough to take some pressure off of Johnny.

Agreed that he’s got decent pieces with him. But he’s still the bell cow there and their best/most important player. The others can take heat off Gaudreau, but it’d be a different ballgame when he’s clearly a secondary player compared to primary in the playoffs.

 

[The Merchant]

There it is. There’s our target. I’ve been saying that every year there seems to be a relatively young star player who is shopped/moved and that’s who Joe will chase. Nobody has the assets we have. I doubt they want to trade him within the conference (if they trade him at all) but we can make it happen.

this is a one sided opinion of one person so it’s not a certainty they actually shop him. If they do though, get him.

That city would riot if they traded Johnny Hockey. Never gonna happen. And even if they did, the asking price would be absurd. Byram + Newhook + 1st at least.

 

[Pokecheque]

I mean, this is not the first time the Calgary Flames had a superstar winger they failed to build around properly who ended up in trade rumors. In fact, he may be the THIRD guy to fit this category.

Interesting though that these rumors are really starting to prop up. Someone speculated that it's being leaked to the press on purpose, to maybe see if there's any interest. I doubt anything will come of it, but if there's any truth to that, the Flames must be extraordinarily frustrated, desperate, or both.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I really dont think it would cost that much to get Gaudreau.


He's a great player but if he is traded it's because things are clearly not working out in Calgary and in those type of situation the player is always traded for pennies on the dollar.


That's not to say it wouldnt cost a lot, it would. But I dont think it would be anywhere like Byram + Newhook + 1st type of packages.


Timmins + Newhook + 1st I think would be close.

 

[Balthazar]

RyJo to Islanders? I guess no one wants Turris and they don't want a 6M 3C so they'd move him back in the 2C spot?

The offer from the Islanders is believed to have included two of the following - Anthony Beauvillier, Ryan Pulock and Josh Bailey, along with either one prospect or pick.

Rumor: New York Islanders make blockbuster offer to the Nashville Predators

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I really dont think it would cost that much to get Gaudreau.


He's a great player but if he is traded it's because things are clearly not working out in Calgary and in those type of situation the player is always traded for pennies on the dollar.


That's not to say it wouldnt cost a lot, it would. But I dont think it would be anywhere like Byram + Newhook + 1st type of packages.


Timmins + Newhook + 1st I think would be close.

Yeah I agree.

there’s likely no other team who can offer up a Byram. We can certainly use Byram to get him since he is likely the best possible piece the flames can get from any team but if we go the Byram route it will be Byram alone or with a small addition.

 

[Foppa2118]

Gaudreau put up 99 points last year just like MacKinnon. There may not be many other teams with a Byram to offer, but I don't see the Flames moving Gaudreau without a Byram coming back, and probably Byram+ since he hasn't played in the NHL yet.

 

[CB Joe]

Kadri already declined to go there. There isn’t a GM in the world dumb enough to ask A newly acquired player to waive to go to a team he refused to go to just 4 months ago.

Oh I know. That's why I don't see what the Avs can realistically offer. Flames aren't going to be interested in Jost, Comper, prospects or picks. They are looking to get better now.

 

[Pokecheque]

Kadri already declined to go there. There isn’t a GM in the world dumb enough to ask A newly acquired player to waive to go to a team he refused to go to just 4 months ago.

Not that I think there's even a chance of it happening, but to clarify, Kadri has already explained that he enacted his NTC because he didn't want to be traded period, he had no issue whatsoever with Calgary. The only reason the trade with Colorado went through is because that team was not on his No-Trade list.

 

[Balthazar]

Not that I think there's even a chance of it happening, but to clarify, Kadri has already explained that he enacted his NTC because he didn't want to be traded period, he had no issue whatsoever with Calgary. The only reason the trade with Colorado went through is because that team was not on his No-Trade list.

That's true but if I'm Calgary I'm not going after a guy who just said no. Especially since it appears to be a locker room attitude change, you're not going to bring in someone who'd rather be somewhere else.

 

[Avs71]

If Calgary is going to start chopping parts, Sam Bennett please.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Not that I think there's even a chance of it happening, but to clarify, Kadri has already explained that he enacted his NTC because he didn't want to be traded period, he had no issue whatsoever with Calgary. The only reason the trade with Colorado went through is because that team was not on his No-Trade list.

Think about what you just said though.
Colorado wasn’t on that NTC while Calgary was. Unless he has become unhappy in Colorado, it appears as though he’d prefer being an Av than a Flame.

 

[Pokecheque]

Think about what you just said though.
Colorado wasn’t on that NTC while Calgary was. Unless he has become unhappy in Colorado, it appears as though he’d prefer being an Av than a Flame.

I dunno, not sure when a player gets a partial no-trade that every team on there is on there because he doesn't want to go there. He may be anticipating what the front office is doing and put it on there because he thinks a trade there might happen and just wants to stop it. I get that's a bit of a reach, but I also don't know if it's just that cut-and-dried in these instances.

Again, he himself said the reasoning behind his decision, and it didn't strike me as disingenuous. Either way, this isn't something I wish to argue since it ain't happenin' anyway.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Theres really not much precedent in recent trade history for a potential Gaudreau trade so it's difficult to predict potential value....

The closest comparison you can find really would be Panarin. And even that deal is a hard one to use because he was traded for an established NHL player and not a futures package. But even in that return it was immediately clear that he didn't return the type of player or package most people expected at that time.


And a big part of that just stems from the fact the team dealing the star player rarely gets the kind of value that was expected.

Throw in the fact that you basically never see prospects of Byrams statire traded and I just dont see him having to be involved.


All of this is for not though as I cant see the Flames having much interest in trading Gaudreau to the team that exposed the Flames for what they are and started them down this path. They likely want nothing to do with us right now.

 

[Foppa2118]

I just read this article BTW, and it's Kiszla level idiocy. He starts by citing Ben Hanowski, Kenny Agostino, and Morgan Klimchuk as examples of why you don't hold onto a star player too long.

Then he states why he's upset with Gaudreau, which is the team getting shut out twice in a row over the weekend, him being a -5 against Vegas, and that he has 1 assist in the last four games. Then he spends the rest of the article hedging his bets and backtracking.

Meanwhile Gaudreau has 18 points in 23 games. I'm not even a big fan of his, but this is just one guy's hot take after a bad few games of hockey.

 

[cgf]

No disagreement from me there. That whole team has issues showing up when it matters most, apparently.

I was trying to say that Gaudreau wasn't really the problem. He's been less productive than in the regular season -- though the drop isn't nearly as bad as Monahan/Lindholm's -- but I attribute that to his linemates disappearing & him starting to get frustrated by having to do everything himself; more than I do to there being something inherently wrong with his game that prevents him from enjoying the playoff success that other smurfs like Briere & rapey-Kane have had.

So his statistical drop off is misleading.

 

[Balthazar]

I was trying to say that Gaudreau wasn't really the problem. He's been less productive than in the regular season -- though the drop isn't nearly as bad as Monahan/Lindholm's -- but I attribute that to his linemates disappearing & him starting to get frustrated by the lack of help; more than I do to there being something inherently wrong with his game that prevents him from enjoying the playoff success that other smurfs like Briere & rapey-Kane have had.

Some players change their game when they get hit. Briere and Kane? No. Gaudreau and Nylander? Yes.

 

[Papa Francouz]

I was trying to say that Gaudreau wasn't really the problem. He's been less productive than in the regular season -- though the drop isn't nearly as bad as Monahan/Lindholm's -- but I attribute that to his linemates disappearing & him starting to get frustrated by having to do everything himself; more than I do to there being something inherently wrong with his game that prevents him from enjoying the playoff success that other smurfs like Briere & rapey-Kane have had.

So his statistical drop off is misleading.

Not sure I can agree with this. Monahan and Lindholm might not show up in the playoffs, but there's nothing preventing Gaudreau from showing up except for himself. Gaudreau scored a solid 20ish more points than both Monahan and Lindholm last year during the regular season, but both still outscored him in the playoffs. He's clearly a tier above these guys but performed worse than both when it mattered most.

 

[cgf]

Some players change their game when they get hit. Briere and Kane? No. Gaudreau and Nylander? Yes.

Except that's not what's happened thus far in Gaudreau's playoff career. He didn't disappear against us and kept trying to make things happen; it was his big strong linemates who disappeared entirely. And that pattern repeats itself in his previous playoff "failures"

You're not alone in repeating this meme; I'd guess because it's a simple explanation that conforms with the expectation some people have about needing to be really "tough" to succeed in the playoffs & little players not being as "gritty"...but it just doesn't track here.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I just read this article BTW, and it's Kiszla level idiocy. He starts by citing Ben Hanowski, Kenny Agostino, and Morgan Klimchuk as examples of why you don't hold onto a star player too long.

Then he states why he's upset with Gaudreau, which is the team getting shut out twice in a row over the weekend, him being a -5 against Vegas, and that he has 1 assist in the last four games. Then he spends the rest of the article hedging his bets and backtracking.

Meanwhile Gaudreau has 18 points in 23 games. I'm not even a big fan of his, but this is just one guy's hot take after a bad few games of hockey.

This post doesn’t help my narrative.

can a MOD delete it or edit it to my liking?

 

[cgf]

Not sure I can agree with this. Monahan and Lindholm might not show up in the playoffs, but there's nothing preventing Gaudreau from showing up except for himself. Gaudreau scored a solid 20ish more points than both Monahan and Lindholm last year during the regular season, but both still outscored him in the playoffs. He's clearly a tier above these guys but performed worse than both when it mattered most.

Monahan outscoring him last spring is a perfect example of how misleading just looking at production can be. Boring Sean did little other than knuckle-puck'ing the flukiest goal of the series into the net; while Gaudreau was one of the last Flames with any talent trying to make things happen, despite nothing working for him...not only because his linemates failed to handle passes/finish chances/be where they needed to be/etc., but their failure helped his mounting frustration spiral and mess with his game further.

 

[Papa Francouz]

Monahan outscoring him last spring is a perfect example of how misleading just looking at production can be. Boring Sean did little other than nuckle-pucking the flukiest goal of the series into the net; while Gaudreau was one of the last Flames with any talent trying to make things happen, despite nothing working for him...not only because his linemates failed to handle passes/finish chances/be where they needed to be/etc., but their failure helped his mounting frustration spiral and mess with his game further.

That's the thing, though - if Johnny wanted to score, then he would have. He had plenty of chances to do so, and what I think happened is the waved-off goal and the terrible penalty shot attempt got to his head. Big time players either score in those instances, or they let it fuel them to score later on. They don't put on a sour face and do nothing for the rest of the game.

I'm really not trying to hate on Gaudreau here, mind you. I like him and think he's an awesome player. I just think the linemates excuse only goes so far when trying to explain his bad postseason stats. The onus is on him to get shit done in the postseason when he knows players will be targeting him to get him off his game, and he can't produce.