Prospect Info: 2019-2020 Senators Prospects Watch Part II

[Sweatred]

This team could take 2 or 3 yrs to become a playoff team, if not longer. There is lots of time for whoever we draft this yr to be NHL ready by then, in the meantime Wolanin IMO is the better player now & could hold that spot for a while. Guhle as an example has NHL size, is a very good skater & has offensive potential. While Brannstrom might be a better passer, IMO Guhle could be the better all around player. Having said that though, I doubt PD does much if anything inside the top 10.

A best we bridge Wolanin on what will probably be an overpay even on a modest contract right to his UFA years and he is long gone before this team accomplishes anything. Wolanin hasn’t played much in nearly two years and his track record is basically “he looked okay on the worst defence in the league for a few games a while ago”. So we pay $2 million a year or whatever to see if he turns out half decent or not ... if he does his value is mostly as a trade/TDL deal before he goes where ever he wants or demands an over pay to stay in Ottberia. If he doesn’t pan out we’ve invested in his development over Brann, JBD, LT etc.

I really don’t see Wolanin’s peak years lining up with the start of our peak years. I say move him vs Brann.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I always think of Ryan Ellis in Nashville when I see Erik Brannstrom play.
Pretty much identical in size and similar style of play. Brannstrom maybe not as physical in his own zone as Ellis.
But can skate and move the puck well and has good hockey IQ.
Ellis took about 4 years from his draft year in 2009 to become a regular NHLer.
I think that Brannstrom is on a similar development path and will become a very solid D-man like Ellis.
I think it would be a mistake to trade him as he could be the cornerstone of the second pairing for the next 10 years.

Ryan Ellis (b.1991) Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

I could see that kind of progression for sure. I think that Brann has more offensive upside than Ellis though. He has 55 points in 77 games in the AHL in his 19 and 20 year old seasons. Ellis had 34 points in 72 games as a 20-22 year old in the AHL. I see EB having more offensive potential.

At the same age I would say they are about even defensively. However, Ellis has REALLY put in work at being better defensively and has taken such strides towards that end that he is now quite a good NHL defender. He's a true 2-way D, IMO. Brannstrom has significant work to do to become as good defensively as Ellis is now.

 

[Tuna99]

I could see that kind of progression for sure. I think that Brann has more offensive upside than Ellis though. He has 55 points in 77 games in the AHL in his 19 and 20 year old seasons. Ellis had 34 points in 72 games as a 20-22 year old in the AHL. I see EB having more offensive potential.

At the same age I would say they are about even defensively. However, Ellis has REALLY put in work at being better defensively and has taken such strides towards that end that he is now quite a good NHL defender. He's a true 2-way D, IMO. Brannstrom has significant work to do to become as good defensively as Ellis is now.

In the 2009 WJC, Ellis wasn’t on for any even strength goals, solid D for a long time. Just smallish - but all points well taken. Bransstrom to me is much more creative, a better passer - Ellis has a great feel for the game and more solid 2way.

missing out on Ellis in that draft for us sucked, but Edmonton taking Pääjärvi and passing on Ellis was a huge miss and kind of summed up their drafting for so long

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Probably miss a few without looking leaguewide, but without looking guys I view as better for sure I can think of I consider these guys top defensive prospects, or top pairing guys.

Sieder
Dobson
Smith
Boqvust
Romanov
Byram

Then a bunch of guys I’d be fine if someone viewed as valuable as Brannstrom, who I’d consider very good D prospects, but don’t view as top pairing guys without large improvements in areas. Brannstrom is in this category for me.

Lindkvist
Harley
Sandin
Perunivich
Miller
Broberg
Soderstrom
Hinola
Timmons

Both Drysdale and Sanderson are in the top category for me, and there is a big difference in the two tiers.

Yea, I consider Brannstrom at the top of that second group.

 

[Frank8]

Can you name them if you don't mind

Here's Dobber's list of fantasy prospect D. If you're not familiar with Dobber or think that because he's a fantasy guy somehow limits his real hockey world knowledge, I strongly suggest you start reading his stuff.

 

[JungleBeat]

Probably miss a few without looking leaguewide, but without looking guys I view as better for sure I can think of I consider these guys top defensive prospects, or top pairing guys.

Sieder
Dobson
Smith
Boqvust
Romanov
Byram

Then a bunch of guys I’d be fine if someone viewed as valuable as Brannstrom, who I’d consider very good D prospects, but don’t view as top pairing guys without large improvements in areas. Brannstrom is in this category for me.

Lindkvist
Harley
Sandin
Perunivich
Miller
Broberg
Soderstrom
Hinola
Timmons

Both Drysdale and Sanderson are in the top category for me, and there is a big difference in the two tiers.

Soderstrom belongs in the other tier.

 

[BondraTime]

Soderstrom belongs in the other tier.

Sure, it’s all suggestive. He’s not there for me, but he can be and is for others.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Sens included in Scott Wheelers prospect rankings:

18. Drake Batherson, RW, 22 (Ottawa Senators — 121st overall, 2017)

Batherson’s never going to carry the organizational gravitas that a Brady Tkachuk or a Thomas Chabot do, or that the Senators’ first two picks of the 2020 NHL Draft will, but I’m not convinced he’s going to be too far off in terms of actual impact. I fully expect Batherson to be one of the Senators’ top forwards as early as next season. I expect that that will continue into any future contending windows in Ottawa, if those days come. He’s not going to drive a top line but he may play on one or be a major factor on a very good second line. All Batherson has done in the last three years is produce in line with prospects who are always discussed in a different stratosphere than he is. He did it in the QMJHL. Then he did it at the world juniors. Then he was arguably the AHL’s best young player in two consecutive seasons and he rounded that out with a 36-point 82-game pace across his first 43 NHL games while playing limited minutes on a terrible team. He’s also 6-foot-3, a plus-level skater, a superb distributor and puck protection option, and an average defensive player.

19. Erik Brannstrom, LHD, 20 (Ottawa Senators — 15th overall, 2017)

Brannstrom spent a few more games in the NHL than the AHL this season but he also spent all of January and February in Belleville before a March stoppage, he’s a late birthday for his 2017 draft year, and there’s a boom or bust element that comes with his projection that all very much still make him feel like a prospect. The 2019-2020 season was one of real highs and lows for Brannstrom but as was typical, the highs were enough to keep me bullish on his upside if everything comes together. Brannstrom’s always going to be limited in his own zone due to his size and propensity to want to try cute little plays on exits, or through the neutral zone. He’s also always going to be a high-level stretch passer who can attack down the wall and throw a seam pass through traffic, or walk the line to give his teammates time to get open. He can start a rush or lead one. He can run a power play. There’s a lot to like in his game and though it feels like he has been around forever, he’s got time on his side to work through some of the warts.

38. Jacob Bernard-Docker, RHD, 20 (Ottawa Senators — 26th overall, 2018)

Bernard-Docker’s game has always run a little counter to the kinds of players I tend to rank highly in this kind of format. He doesn’t have those separating offensive tools that most top-pairing defensemen in today’s NHL possess. He’s not a particularly light nor explosive skater. He’s more of a throwback. I’ve become a real admirer of his game in that sense, though. Because he’s still talented. He can still walk the line. His shots still get through (and pop off of his stick, frankly). He’s still calm under pressure. He’s just not out there to show off or break open the game by taking a big risk. He’s going to take what’s given to him, produce by remaining consistent and defend at a high level through quick decisions, the right choices on routes and gaps, and by playing physically without chasing for the big hit. Not all impact defencemen in the NHL have flair, or play on the top power play, even as the game changes.

40. Josh Norris, C, 21 (Ottawa Senators — 19th overall, 2017)

Norris has produced in line with prospects I have higher on this list, so his evaluation has less to do with outcomes and more to do with style. He’s a fabulous player who is NHL-ready today. My concern with his game has always been that I’m not sure his skill set is high-end enough to play on a first line, or to be more than a complementary piece on an NHL power play. He quick, he’s strong, he’s always on the move, he can score from mid-range, he can make plays to his linemates in tight and around the perimeter. I think he’s going to be a very good third-line center, if not a second-line one. I just don’t see him finding another gear and I think most of the forwards ahead of him on this list have tools that may give them a better chance at finding that level — at going from impact player to star player.

According to a comment response, Logan Brown, Vitalii Abramov and Lassi Thompson were all in very close consideration, as were Formenton & Pinto to a lesser extent (ranked in the 60s/70s). We were still tied for the most appearances on the list. Not a huge fan of Wheeler but still somewhat interesting info

 

[OD99]

Sens included in Scott Wheelers prospect rankings:

18. Drake Batherson, RW, 22 (Ottawa Senators — 121st overall, 2017)


19. Erik Brannstrom, LHD, 20 (Ottawa Senators — 15th overall, 2017)



38. Jacob Bernard-Docker, RHD, 20 (Ottawa Senators — 26th overall, 2018)



40. Josh Norris, C, 21 (Ottawa Senators — 19th overall, 2017)



According to a comment response, Logan Brown, Vitalii Abramov and Lassi Thompson were all in very close consideration, as were Formenton & Pinto to a lesser extent (ranked in the 60s/70s). We were still tied for the most appearances on the list. Not a huge fan of Wheeler but still somewhat interesting info

Thanks for posting this.

I believe he is off base with Norris - everything I watched last season (even limited NHL time) indicates to me that he will find a way to excel with Ottawa. He has a quick shot and might end up with the best one-timer as soon as he joins the club plus he has the agility to get to the right spots on the ice. All that after having missed, what, 8 or 9 months due to his shoulder injury?

I am very high on him and actually ranked him as our #1 prospect ahead of Batherson in the poll going on now...it hurt me to do that as I love Batherson but at this point I do think Norris may be a more effective player (even if he doesn't statistically out perform Batherson).

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

The AHL rookie of the year and possible MVP is 40th in the league?

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

And JBD is a very good skater, elite even.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Sens included in Scott Wheelers prospect rankings:

18. Drake Batherson, RW, 22 (Ottawa Senators — 121st overall, 2017)


19. Erik Brannstrom, LHD, 20 (Ottawa Senators — 15th overall, 2017)



38. Jacob Bernard-Docker, RHD, 20 (Ottawa Senators — 26th overall, 2018)



40. Josh Norris, C, 21 (Ottawa Senators — 19th overall, 2017)



According to a comment response, Logan Brown, Vitalii Abramov and Lassi Thompson were all in very close consideration, as were Formenton & Pinto to a lesser extent (ranked in the 60s/70s). We were still tied for the most appearances on the list. Not a huge fan of Wheeler but still somewhat interesting info

Wheeler ... starting to not especially like his rankings or agree with what he sees. What is the date of the ranking? I could see this as being August 2019 or somewhere in that range. For me it has to be based on old information.. No way

Wheeler's 2020 NHL prospect pool rankings: No. 7 Ottawa...

Ridiculous .. Sens Prospect Rankings Feb 2020 ???? Did he just look up their Names , kinda remember who they were and rank them?

1. Batherson
2. Brannstrom
3. JBD
4. Thomson
5. Pinto
6. Norris
7. Abramov
8. Brown
9. Tychonick -- good work here Tyconick over any one really, but Formenton?
10. Formenton
11. Chlapik
12. Balcers
13. Davidsson
14. Gruden

Maybe he specializes with draft prospects His final rankings have
7. Stutzle
8. Drysdale
19. Sanderson

Wheeler: Final ranking for the 2020 NHL Draft's top 100...
A very ranking imo

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Wheeler ... starting to not especially like his rankings or agree with what he sees. What is the date of the ranking? I could see this as being August 2019 or somewhere in that range. For me it has to be based on old information.. No way

Wheeler's 2020 NHL prospect pool rankings: No. 7 Ottawa...

Ridiculous .. Sens Prospect Rankings Feb 2020 ???? Did he just look up their Names , kinda remember who they were and rank them?

1. Batherson
2. Brannstrom
3. JBD
4. Thomson
5. Pinto
6. Norris
7. Abramov
8. Brown
9. Tychonick -- good work here Tyconick over any one really, but Formenton?
10. Formenton
11. Chlapik
12. Balcers
13. Davidsson
14. Gruden

Maybe he specializes with draft prospects His final rankings have
7. Stutzle
8. Drysdale
19. Sanderson

Wheeler: Final ranking for the 2020 NHL Draft's top 100...
A very ranking imo

I don't know what to say. What is he basing some of these rankings on? I haven't given up on Tychonick but what has he done to be considered better than Formenton? He didn't get a chance, true enough, but there is still nothing there to put him ahead of a guy who had 27 goals and 53 points in 61 AHL games. Frankly Tychonick hasn't done anything close to enough to be ahead of Chlapik or Balcers either.

Very weird.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

Logan Brown at 8 is just wrong. There may be a question mark in terms of his work ethic but there's no doubt about his talent and physical tools in my mind. I'd have him 3rd behind Batherson and Norris.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Also Pinto ahead of Norris, at this point, is absolutely absurd.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Logan Brown at 8 is just wrong. There may be a question mark in terms of his work ethic but there's no doubt about his talent and physical tools in my mind. I'd have him 3rd behind Batherson and Norris.

Right below Abramov? W.T.F.

 

[Micklebot]

Wheeler ... starting to not especially like his rankings or agree with what he sees. What is the date of the ranking? I could see this as being August 2019 or somewhere in that range. For me it has to be based on old information.. No way

Wheeler's 2020 NHL prospect pool rankings: No. 7 Ottawa...

Ridiculous .. Sens Prospect Rankings Feb 2020 ???? Did he just look up their Names , kinda remember who they were and rank them?

1. Batherson
2. Brannstrom
3. JBD
4. Thomson
5. Pinto
6. Norris
7. Abramov
8. Brown
9. Tychonick -- good work here Tyconick over any one really, but Formenton?
10. Formenton
11. Chlapik
12. Balcers
13. Davidsson
14. Gruden

Maybe he specializes with draft prospects His final rankings have
7. Stutzle
8. Drysdale
19. Sanderson

Wheeler: Final ranking for the 2020 NHL Draft's top 100...
A very ranking imo

wth... Norris behind Pinto? Norris just had a rookie AHL season that arguably was better than Batherson's 2nd season and he's 5 spots back from him?

edit: just realized that list is from Feb, so I guess Norris did enough to move up 2 spots since then and passed Pinto and Thomson.

Still not a fan of Wheeler's lists. He's too often impressed by flashy players imo.

 

[Pinto Bean]

I'm so excited about JBD. I think the Sens have the luxury of having so many flashy pieces right now which includes both prospects (Batherson, Norris, Brown, even Thomson, Formenton, and Abramov have a certain flash to them) to go along with super exciting picks that JBD sometimes gets a bit lost.

Quite frankly, I'm so hopeful that JBD can be the stabilizing force on the Sens blueline for years to come. He could realistically be the guy who averages the most TOI on the team forthe next decade (okay well likely behind Chabot) as I see him as an all-situation defender. His defence is so mature and stable for his age, but what I love about him is his offence. When he was first drafted, I actually saw him more as an offensive guy. This guy has done nothing but produce fantastic point totals with a + shot and very consistent puck movement. When you combine that with his skating, I just don't see why offence is rarely discussed amongst prospect evaluators when it comes to JBD. Even when watching the WJC, he kept being referred to as a defence-first, shutdown defender which of course is a compliment to his defensice game but I really think it doesn't do his offensive traits justice!

I think JBD has what it takes to be a 10goal, 20-25assist guy (assuming he gets some PP time) while playing 22+ minutes a night!

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

wth... Norris behind Pinto? Norris just had a rookie AHL season that arguably was better than Batherson's 2nd season and he's 5 spots back from him?

edit: just realized that list is from Feb, so I guess Norris did enough to move up 2 spots since then and passed Pinto and Thomson.

Still not a fan of Wheeler's lists. He's too often impressed by flashy players imo.

Season ended basically a month later. It wasn't just one month of good play that he missed

 

[Micklebot]

Season ended basically a month later. It wasn't just one month of good play that he missed

To be fair, he had a slow start and while the list was published in Feb, the evaluations might be from earlier

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

To be fair, he had a slow start and while the list was published in Feb, the evaluations might be from earlier

Maybe the only explanation for the rankings the way they are across the board. Which is kind of lame for the Athletic to put out a stale evaluation.

 

[BondraTime]

Wheelers personal list is just that, a personal list. Not much different than any list here. He has his favourites and likes certain types.

I think it’s a pretty awful list, but that’s my own personal assessment, he’d think my list was awful as well. That’s going to happen when you put out a personal list, especially one where you have some “hot takes”.

I’ve never agree with or understand his draft rankings or prospect rankings year to year, so I never really expect to agree with his lists.

 

[aragorn]

Nice to see someone else get shredded for having terrible lists. Lol.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Wheeler ... starting to not especially like his rankings or agree with what he sees. What is the date of the ranking? I could see this as being August 2019 or somewhere in that range. For me it has to be based on old information.. No way

Wheeler's 2020 NHL prospect pool rankings: No. 7 Ottawa...

Ridiculous .. Sens Prospect Rankings Feb 2020 ???? Did he just look up their Names , kinda remember who they were and rank them?

1. Batherson
2. Brannstrom
3. JBD
4. Thomson
5. Pinto
6. Norris
7. Abramov
8. Brown
9. Tychonick -- good work here Tyconick over any one really, but Formenton?
10. Formenton
11. Chlapik
12. Balcers
13. Davidsson
14. Gruden

Maybe he specializes with draft prospects His final rankings have
7. Stutzle
8. Drysdale
19. Sanderson

Wheeler: Final ranking for the 2020 NHL Draft's top 100...
A very ranking imo

Yeah I just ignore this guy.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Wheelers personal list is just that, a personal list. Not much different than any list here. He has his favourites and likes certain types.

I think it’s a pretty awful list, but that’s my own personal assessment, he’d think my list was awful as well. That’s going to happen when you put out a personal list, especially one where you have some “hot takes”.

I’ve never agree with or understand his draft rankings or prospect rankings year to year, so I never really expect to agree with his lists.

Yeah but the problem is people take him seriously just because he's a journalist. The whole concept makes no sense. What if a hockey player or scout started critiquing a journalist's writing. It's outside their area of expertise; fine if they have opinions but they shouldn't expect anyone to listen.