2019/20 Roster Thread XXXIV

[Adtar02]

Yeh, but doubt he gets more than ~$2m on a 2 year deal or something. Should not be an issue. Flyers have all the leverage.

Oh I don’t expect much for him. Just realized he doesn’t seem to be accounted for.

 

[Appleyard]

Oh I don’t expect much for him. Just realized he doesn’t seem to be accounted for.

Had him there! But did not mention Lindblom... as just really no way to know with that and dont want to suppose.

 

[Adtar02]

Had him there! But did not mention Lindblom... as just really no way to know with that and dont want to suppose.

I expect Patrick back at some point next season. Lindblom is tougher. Hope he is back.

And wasn’t saying you weren’t accounting for him just that in general I’ve too many post not accounting for him.

Honestly like your thoughts on most a lot. Morin is the one I’ll agree and disagree on. He can’t be counted on but still see a contributor if healthy. Just needs to play in the nhl

 

[Appleyard]

I expect Patrick back at some point next season. Lindblom is tougher. Hope he is back.

And wasn’t saying you weren’t accounting for him just that in general I’ve too many post not accounting for him.

Honestly like your thoughts on most a lot. Morin is the one I’ll agree and disagree on. He can’t be counted on but still see a contributor if healthy. Just needs to play in the nhl

I mean, I think Morin was on his way to being a solid bottom pairing Dman. But just not sure after all the injuries how he will be. He never had the best hockey IQ... and if his plus skating has been compromised then one of his greatest tools as been diminished. I hope he will be back and solid, but not sure I would bet on it. Hope I am wrong though!

 

[rinaldo]

Yeh, but doubt he gets more than ~$2m on a 2 year deal or something. Should not be an issue. Flyers have all the leverage.

dont pay him one penny more than his qualifying offer

 

[CapnZin]

We know what we have, Friedman. That's it.
Braun is the optimal choice, but he may not be affordable.
Zamula, York, Kalynuk (if he comes out) probably aren't ready to start the season with the Flyers. And shouldn't be rushed.

Hagg isn't ideal, but Goloubef and Davidson are 30, and haven't played regularly for a couple years, you're more likely to get the next Prosser. Players decline, marginal players decline faster. We don't need more JAGs for LHV.

Ryan is a mobile undersized LHD, Ghost is much better.
At least Friedman is a bigger though still a bit undersized RHD.
I'd be looking for a full sized D-man who can pair with either of them.
You want some balance in your D-core, because you'll face teams with physical forwards who'll want to attack the crease.

MDZ would be a much better choice than Ryan. IF you can sign him on the cheap.

Of course, but looking at his value via metrics, why not try to inch up?
Again, Hagg is the worst defenseman we have that plays. It shouldn’t be hard to find someone a little bit better. If we can’t get anyone better and are pressed against the cap, he shouldn’t be playing 15min a game.

 

[Adtar02]

I mean, I think Morin was on his way to being a solid bottom pairing Dman. But just not sure after all the injuries how he will be. He never had the best hockey IQ... and if his plus skating has been compromised then one of his greatest tools as been diminished. I hope he will be back and solid, but not sure I would bet on it. Hope I am wrong though!

Completely agree just hate seeing people knock him because he never got a chance. And his injuries happen in the ahl after he should have had a chance. That’s bothers me I saw player in him. Not a superstar or All star. Just a solid piece. A better hagg with more to put forward. Could have grown even bigger but not needed.

But I can’t stand the revisionist history some times. Certainly not counting on him. But I do think he is one that should have learn the game in the nhl much earlier. Just based on physical early development. He need to learn more at nhl speed do to being so big he could still mask mistakes at slower levels due to shear physical dominance

And prefer not to belittle a player who got hurt. Again this isn’t you. You just are civil enough to reply to.

Edit... to me as much of a boom or bust. He was physically developed enough that he also should of had a sing or swim to him as well

 

[captainpaxil]

Mdz would be the perfect get this off-season. Cheap reliable veteran with a history with both the coach and the organization. If I can have him or hagg for a million bucks it's mdz all day

 

[Phillyfan28]

Mdz would be the perfect get this off-season. Cheap reliable veteran with a history with both the coach and the organization. If I can have him or hagg for a million bucks it's mdz all day

..what year am I in? Is he good now?

 

[Rebels57]

..what year am I in? Is he good now?

No lol

 

[orangey]

No one is obsessing over Hagg. What we're obsessing over is maximizing your cap space and roster utility as it pertains to skill. Hagg is an extremely poor NHL player by any measure. Where and how much he's playing doesnt matter - he's just not good. It's silly to think that because "hes on the bottom pair" or "hes a number 7, or my favorite "he only plays 1/4 of the game, it doesnt matter!" doesnt mean we shouldnt optimize that role that he's playing. He's going to ask for too much money for the role he's going to play, and more importantly, for his on ice impact and therefore isn't worth the cap:roster spot ratio he provides.

As for how to line them up?

Provy - Niskanen
Sanheim - Myers
Ghost - Friedman
Morin

all done.

Relying on Morin is problematic, unfortunately. Hagg at least can stay healthy and perform his role whether it is 6th or 7th D. If the contract isn't onerous then that may be a good hedge for depth is all. If there was someone else who could stay healthy then fine, but there isn't for next season and a FA will cost even more. Hagg may be the most economical solution for 6/7 competition with Friedman. If Friedman wins it then great. Team benefits from the competition for playing time. Either way though you need both a 6 and a 7 who can stay in the lineup. Morin is more of an 8th at this point, sadly. At least he is cheap if he can ever play but don't hold your breath. After that there are Phantoms rookies and terrible AHL vets. It makes sense to keep Hagg for a little longer in that context, IMO.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

(Note: I don’t want anyone to lose their job. And Carchidi is still ten times worse. I give Isaac minor credit for trying to slightly adapt his coverage to a post-Athletic market).

"Someone will be hire Dave"

Looks like the wrong guy got fired today.

Edit: is Timmy actually employed anywhere, anyway?

Edit 2: apparently he is, by the Sloane Auto Group. Heh.

 

[orangey]

Decidedly not a role. It's a skill. Conflating the two illustrates the problem succinctly. Unless rosters expand, hockey does not lend itself to narrow specialists the way baseball can.

OK inexpensive 6/7th depth defenseman who is good in front of the net and physical by current standards while not being a complete trainwreck in other areas considering that we are talking about a 7th D if Friedman is what folks here are hoping/praying he is.

 

[orangey]

Plus you can get real value for Hagg (say a 2/3 to replenish what was given up for Braun) rather than re-signing him when you have Zamula, Kalynuk, and York on the verge of the NHL.

That pick isnt going to be a huge motivation for a team that thinks they can win now when those guys haven't even played an AHL game yet. Maybe after next season though...

 

[orangey]

I get where both are coming from.

I would be happy going into the year with:

Provorov-Niskanen
Sanheim-Myers
Gostisbehere-Friedman.

But not so sure now on Morin as the #7... maybe fine if #8. Hence why would be fine with them signing a cheap #7 who can play good NHL hockey in bottom pairing role and has proven that. Not many actually around... but Ryan, Davidson and Goloubef fit the bill. All will be 800k or less, would be able to sit around as a #7, and can be sent to the AHL if needed and be a positive there. Basically like Colaiacovo did. (ignoring that Carlo was actually better than half the D they played in front of him and on merit would have been like the #5 all year haha)

In an ideal world then if say Friedman plays first 30 games and is poor and Zamula does not look great in AHL then Ryan can slot in at #6 and pretty much know what will get. Or if say Ghost gets injured on a roadtrip he can play out the roadtrip and then Zamula if playing well comes up and Ryan slides back to #7.

Just a shame they felt the need to sign ALL of Welinksi, Prosser, Wotherspoon and Bigras. As 0/4 are capable of playing in the NHL.

Welinski and Bigras were putrid in their NHL stints.
Prosser was bad, one of worst NHL Dmen when there.
Wotherspoon might be best of the bunch but he is a #8-9 at best... who should only play in really dire circumstances.

I would just hate a 2010 situation where no Braun, say Ghost goes down, Friedman is just ~#7 level, Zamula struggles to adapt to AHL right off the bat and end up with freaking Morin and Wotherspoon as the #5 and #6... a Joakim Ryan type guy mitigates a lot of risk without really any issues in terms of blocking anyone.

This is the basic thought process where BOTH a reliable 6 and 7 are needed. If Friedman is one of them then OK, and I think he deserves it, but then you need an experienced NHL guy who can stay healthy for the other spot. Not Morin, not hope about what Zamula may do someday. Reliable NHL player from day one. That's all I'm saying here. I think Hagg will be inexpensive but if they can find a solution that is better/more reliable then great. If not then they already have a serviceable 7th who is usually healthy. I don't see a problem with either outcome.

 

[Stizzle]

Not Morin, not hope about what Zamula may do someday. Reliable NHL player from day one.

Not someday for Zamula. Starting day 1. Robert Hagg getting ice time instead of Egor Zamula would be egregious. It's seriously not close.

We're talking about Robert Hagg here. Literally the worst statistical defenseman in hockey. The total antithesis of a modern day puck-mover.

Think back to the single preseason game Zamula played this season. He was legitimately the best, or 2nd best, player on the ice for us that game. Robert Hagg hasn't sniffed looking like that at any point in his entire career.

Edit:
I dug up @Magua & @FLYguy3911 quotes
from that GDT.

Zamula was a beaut tonight, and his poise on breakouts and passes in general is something else. He has the makings for a great rush defender too. Even in the cycle, he used his body and massive reach well to take/shield the puck. Myers was the usual. But Zamula -- despite draft pedigree and horrific lack of pro experience! -- has a chance to be here sooner than expected at LD if he keeps it up. Dude just balls out against pros.

Zamula is a lot more subtle and heady and you really need to watch him to appreciate his game. Ridiculously soft hands for a player of his height. Tremendous passer. Tons of breakups. I mean there's a reason why he was able to compete in NHL preseason games 3 months after going undrafted at about 165 pounds. Really smart player. He's moving his feet better this year both with the puck and without it. Still question his skating in stride and while carrying the puck, but there's more than enough there to be an effective NHL player.

 

[rinaldo]

a big part of me hopes they sign hagg to a mulit year deal for 2m per just to piss many people off

 

[Striiker]

The endless Hagg turd polishing blows my mind and is 100% of the reason why this topic doesn’t just die.

The pro-Hagg people keep bringing it back up to defend one of the worst Flyers in recent history.

 

[FLYguy3911]

That pick isnt going to be a huge motivation for a team that thinks they can win now when those guys haven't even played an AHL game yet. Maybe after next season though...

This is so shortsighted and it has been proven time and time again.

 

[CapnZin]

The pro-Hagg people keep bringing it back up to defend one of the worst Flyers in recent history.

Scary to think he’s on a list that includes Tyrell Goulbourne, Chris VandeVelde, Dale Weise, Andrew MacDonald, and Brandon Manning over the past couple years

 

[Starat327]

OK inexpensive 6/7th depth defenseman who is good in front of the net and physical by current standards while not being a complete trainwreck in other areas considering that we are talking about a 7th D if Friedman is what folks here are hoping/praying he is.

Here's the problem with the thought process -- he is a trainwreck in other areas. Most notable, with the puck on his stick in the defensive zone, and making any attempt to leave it. He'll also cost, at a bare minimum i'd guess - 1.5M, though likely range is 1.75-2. You can find players who are not only cheaper, but also better - or at the very least, not as much of a risk.

 

[Starat327]

a big part of me hopes they sign hagg to a mulit year deal for 2m per just to piss many people off

I too, wish, hope, and pray my team gets worse to spite people around me.

 

[rinaldo]

I too, wish, hope, and pray my team gets worse to spite people around me.

what would anger people more: frost being a bust (or starting the year in the ahl), resigning hagg on a multi year deal, or trading ghost for 2 mid rd picks?

 

[Asnito]

The endless Hagg turd polishing blows my mind and is 100% of the reason why this topic doesn’t just die.

The pro-Hagg people keep bringing it back up to defend one of the worst Flyers in recent history.

 

[TB87]

TIL if the Flyers re-sign Braun, he’s gotta be paired with Hagg AND that certainty is important.


AKA: “I prefer to pay a premium for my 5th AND 6th defenseman.”

Friedman is 100% worth exploring as the team’s new #6. He’s a man amongst boys in the AHL. As such, there’s nothing new to be gained for him playing at that level any more. Gotta see what’s he’s got at the NHL level. He’d be in a good spot paired with an experienced vet like Braun.



****I’m operating under the assumption that Ghost is a goner****