2019/20 Roster Thread XXXIV

[dragonoffrost]

Folks this summer is going to be scary. IF they finish the season without any fans through the playoffs … it's going to be a massive effect on next seasons cap even if the NHLPA does a max escalator.

 

[rinaldo]

I get where both are coming from.

I would be happy going into the year with:

Provorov-Niskanen
Sanheim-Myers
Gostisbehere-Friedman.

But not so sure now on Morin as the #7... maybe fine if #8. Hence why would be fine with them signing a cheap #7 who can play good NHL hockey in bottom pairing role and has proven that. Not many actually around... but Ryan, Davidson and Goloubef fit the bill. All will be 800k or less, would be able to sit around as a #7, and can be sent to the AHL if needed and be a positive there. Basically like Colaiacovo did. (ignoring that Carlo was actually better than half the D they played in front of him and on merit would have been like the #5 all year haha)

In an ideal world then if say Friedman plays first 30 games and is poor and Zamula does not look great in AHL then Ryan can slot in at #6 and pretty much know what will get. Or if say Ghost gets injured on a roadtrip he can play out the roadtrip and then Zamula if playing well comes up and Ryan slides back to #7.

Just a shame they felt the need to sign ALL of Welinksi, Prosser, Wotherspoon and Bigras. As 0/4 are capable of playing in the NHL.

Welinski and Bigras were putrid in their NHL stints.
Prosser was bad, one of worst NHL Dmen when there.
Wotherspoon might be best of the bunch but he is a #8-9 at best... who should only play in really dire circumstances.

I would just hate a 2010 situation where no Braun, say Ghost goes down, Friedman is just ~#7 level, Zamula struggles to adapt to AHL right off the bat and end up with freaking Morin and Wotherspoon as the #5 and #6... a Joakim Ryan type guy mitigates a lot of risk without really any issues in terms of blocking anyone.

some other guys who should be cheap casey nelson-buffalo, Duncan seimens, mark alt-avs, eben MDZ

kick the tires on dion phaneuff!!! maybe there is a vet or 2 overseas who wants to come back stateside. Point is they are available.

 

[deadhead]

I get where both are coming from.

I would be happy going into the year with:

Provorov-Niskanen
Sanheim-Myers
Gostisbehere-Friedman.

But not so sure now on Morin as the #7... maybe fine if #8. Hence why would be fine with them signing a cheap #7 who can play good NHL hockey in bottom pairing role and has proven that. Not many actually around... but Ryan, Davidson and Goloubef fit the bill. All will be 800k or less, would be able to sit around as a #7, and can be sent to the AHL if needed and be a positive there.

Just a shame they felt the need to sign ALL of Welinksi, Prosser, Wotherspoon and Bigras. As 0/4 are capable of playing in the NHL.

Welinski and Bigras were putrid in their NHL stints.
Prosser was bad, one of worst NHL Dmen when there.
Wotherspoon might be best of the bunch but he is a #8-9 at best... who should only play in really dire circumstances.

I would just hate a 2010 situation where no Braun, say Ghost goes down, Friedman is just ~#7 level, Zamula struggles to adapt to AHL right off the bat and end up with freaking Morin and Wotherspoon as the #5 and #6... a Joakim Ryan type guy mitigates a lot of risk without really any issues in terms of blocking anyone.

Folin worked out really well.

Ryan is an undersized (5'11 185) D-man with limited offensive skills (23 ES points in 141 games despite 55.9% O-zone starts, 0.5 pp/60 this season), he might be cheap b/c he isn't very good. He's more mobile and a better puck handler than Hagg, but would make a soft defense even softer without adding offense. San Jose, which had a thin defense, let him walk.

Davidson has played 22 NHL games the last two seasons combined, spent the majority of this season playing for the AHL affiliate of the Flames. He played seven games for the Flames , averaging just 12:16 of time on ice.
With the Sharks, he played just five games and an average of 12:46 of time on ice.

Goloubef couldn't break into the Detroit lineup, nuff said.

Ryan might be a wash with Hagg, but his skill set is a bad fit, the other two may not be better than Wotherspoon.

 

[Appleyard]

some other guys who should be cheap casey nelson-buffalo, Duncan seimens, mark alt-avs, eben MDZ

kick the tires on dion phaneuff!!! maybe there is a vet or 2 overseas who wants to come back stateside. Point is they are available.

MDZ and Nelson I would be "fine" with at #7. MDZ is not what he was a few years ago. But still a good NHLer. Nelson has filled in "okay-ish" when called on.

But dont want Alt or Siemens. Neither have really proven anything in such small NHL samples and not great in AHL either.

Would have put Zach Redmond in that group with Ryan, Goloubef and Davidson as well... but he is DEL bound. Crazy to me he never got a full-time bottom pairing NHL role. Good player at both ends.

 

[rinaldo]

MDZ and Nelson I would be "fine" with at #7. MDZ is not what he was a few years ago. But still a good NHLer. Nelson has filled in "okay-ish" when called on.

But dont want Alt or Siemens. Neither have really proven anything in such small NHL samples and not great in AHL either.

Would have put Zach Redmond in that group with Ryan, Goloubef and Davidson as well... but he is DEL bound. Crazy to me he never got a full-time bottom pairing NHL role. Good player at both ends.

I take my shot with alt and siemans over the ones you mentioned though that's just me.

Hagg at 1.5 or MDZ at 800k as your 6th dman, who you take? MDZ imo.

 

[TCTC]

We finally fixed our goal song. I don't want Del Zotto to ruin it again.

 

[Appleyard]

Folin worked out really well.

Ryan is an undersized (5'11 185) D-man with limited offensive skills (23 ES points in 141 games despite 55.9% O-zone starts, 0.5 pp/60 this season), he might be cheap b/c he isn't very good. He's more mobile and a better puck handler than Hagg, but would make a soft defense even softer without adding offense. San Jose, which had a thin defense, let him walk.

Davidson has played 22 NHL games the last two seasons combined, spent the majority of this season playing for the AHL affiliate of the Flames. He played seven games for the Flames , averaging just 12:16 of time on ice.
With the Sharks, he played just five games and an average of 12:46 of time on ice.

Goloubef couldn't break into the Detroit lineup, nuff said.

Ryan might be a wash with Hagg, but his skill set is a bad fit, the other two may not be better than Wotherspoon.

Folin was poor before he joined the Flyers. But he still arguably outperformed Hagg when he played on the same team.

Ryan is better defensively than Hagg and better skating... and around the same offensively. He has won his matchups consistently. Ryan is not soft in any way. Pretty feisty actually.

Davidson is more mobile than Hagg, and has won his matchups consistently. And is better defensively.

Detroit cant evaluate talent at all. Goloubef is the worst of the 3. But still superior to Hagg based off what he has done in NHL. He has been on worse teams, with worse teammates, in very similar minutes, and performed better.

And Hagg will get DOUBLE what these guys get.

Calling Ryan vs Hagg a "wash" is not really an accurate reflection. Wotherspoon being in the same hemisphere as them is really not reality:

Ryan: 54.28% ExGF, +0.22 ExGF Rel
Davidson: 50.43% ExGF, +0.14 ExGF Rel
Goloubef: 47.95% ExGF, +0.02 ExGF Rel
Wotherspoon: 44.6% ExGF, -0.13 ExGF Rel
Hagg: 46.05% ExGF, -0.34 ExGF Rel

Hagg could be getting toughest minutes in league and Ryan easiest and that would not make up the difference. In fact Hagg and Goloubef have had pretty darn similar minutes over careers.

Also, to compare further:

Hagg appears to be the worst at defense and exits... and the 2nd worst offensively.

 

[Appleyard]

I take my shot with alt and siemans over the ones you mentioned though that's just me.

Hagg at 1.5 or MDZ at 800k as your 6th dman, who you take? MDZ imo.

Oh, MDZ all day.

 

[Appleyard]

I mean... in an ideal world can just re-sign Braun! That would be great.

But it might not be quite possible unless he accepts like ~2m and they also let Hagg walk.

But if worst comes to worst would rather get a #7 on $700-800k like Ryan, Goloubef or Davidson than Hagg at ~$1.5m.

 

[TB87]

Ryan on a cheap 1 year >>>>>>> paying Hagg a premium ($2.5M ish) to be your 6/7 D


**Especially if they bring back Braun on a short-term deal**

Referring to any NHLers as "soft" <<<<<<< recognizing how tough you have to be mentally and physically to play in the NHL even semi-regularly



Now, Ryan (like Hagg) is JAG. If you can upgrade your weakest link, even slightly, at a cheap cost....you do it and don't even bat an eye.

 

[Striiker]

We shouldn’t take Hagg at league minimum.

Paying someone to make us worse isn’t how we win.

 

[FLYguy3911]

 

[Flyerfan4life]

cue the Tombstone "bye.." gif here..

@Captain Dave Poulin

 

[CapnZin]

What defensemen on a $1.15M or less non-entry level contract were better than Hagg this year?

A decent amount actually: Anthony DeAngelo (NYR), Marcus Pettersson (PIT), Madison Bowey (DET), Haydn Fleury (CAR), Dylan DeMelo (WPG), Ryan Graves (COL), Brad Hunt (MIN), Joakim Ryan (LAK), Devon Toews (NYI), Matt Roy (LAK), Carson Soucy (MIN), possibly more.

Regardless, still no merit to any defense from what I’ve seen. People who argue that Hagg is cheap so it’s okay probably said the 750K to Stewart was fine since he is cheap.
————
The whole bantering on Hagg is a bit much though. Again, his play is on the margin - he’ll likely ask for a raise and he’d get it - and his play has not been good. Why not see what we have at less expense. If the person is worse than Hagg, then we can make a move for someone.

 

[deadhead]

d. Why not see what we have at less expense. If the person is worse than Hagg, then we can make a move for someone.

We know what we have, Friedman. That's it.
Braun is the optimal choice, but he may not be affordable.
Zamula, York, Kalynuk (if he comes out) probably aren't ready to start the season with the Flyers. And shouldn't be rushed.

Hagg isn't ideal, but Goloubef and Davidson are 30, and haven't played regularly for a couple years, you're more likely to get the next Prosser. Players decline, marginal players decline faster. We don't need more JAGs for LHV.

Ryan is a mobile undersized LHD, Ghost is much better.
At least Friedman is a bigger though still a bit undersized RHD.
I'd be looking for a full sized D-man who can pair with either of them.
You want some balance in your D-core, because you'll face teams with physical forwards who'll want to attack the crease.

MDZ would be a much better choice than Ryan. IF you can sign him on the cheap.

 

[deadhead]

R
Referring to any NHLers as "soft" <<<<<<< recognizing how tough you have to be mentally and physically to play in the NHL even semi-regularly

Everything is relative, NFL players are tougher than NHL players, yet scouts routinely describe some players as soft.

And it's more about size and strength, it's just hard for a 5'10 185 D-man to clear the crease or win battles against an aggressive forecheck.

Which is why teams like to pair small guys with a bigger defenseman so they have at least one guy on the ice who can handle big, tough forwards.
Conversely, one of the things the Flyers have missed since Simmonds fell off the cliff has been a true PF who can create havoc around the net and distract goalies.

 

[Deadpool8812]

He was a terrible beat writer. Knew nothing about hockey.

I still feel for him though. I hope he's able to find a new job

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Poor bastard. I know exactly how he feels, down to the exact number of years. Best of hack luck, David.

 

[Deadpool8812]

People on Reddit are saying he was our best beat writer..hahaha

I mean, do we even have a good beat writer?

 

[Magua]

(Note: I don’t want anyone to lose their job. And Carchidi is still ten times worse. I give Isaac minor credit for trying to slightly adapt his coverage to a post-Athletic market).

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I definitely think Isaac was the best source for lineups. He consistently and clearly conveyed that info.

 

[Adtar02]

As even if the cap just stays the same Flyers will be at ~$2.5m space with a 21 man roster once Patrick, Friedman, Myers, NAK and a back-up goalie signed. And that is including Morin and only 12 forwards.

And dont really want Hagg back, Braun is very likely to demand $2m+...

Thought Patrick needs a new contract

 

[dragonoffrost]

Thought Patrick needs a new contract

He does but with his health issues he can't really ask for much of a raise.

 

[Adtar02]

Wait only Myers and hagg aren’t small?. Really??? That’s your stance.

And a village is rejoicing.

 

[Appleyard]

Thought Patrick needs a new contract

Yeh, but doubt he gets more than ~$2m on a 2 year deal or something. Should not be an issue. Flyers have all the leverage.