2019/20 Roster Thread XXXII (3/5: Farabee Recalled From LHV)

[Rebels57]

Laughton
Raffl
NAK
Bunnaman
Pitlick

Keep in mind that being able to play on the 3rd line in a pinch isn't the same thing as being a 3rd liner.

Laughton is on pace for like 35 points at ES this season. Hes actually not only a 3rd liner but a good one. He is better suited for 3LW than 3C though.

NAK has actually produced at a 3rd line rate too at 5v5. If hes a 4th liner hes a way above average one.

Id consider Pits a low end 3rd liner / high end 4th liner.

Raffl is excellent defensively but offensively a low end 3rd liner / high end 4th liner.

Bunnaman a low end 4th liner at this point.

 

[landsbergfan]

And they had three guys playing well on the fourth line. When was the last time we heard any moaning about that line? It has been weeks. I've watched all these games, and this myth that they "needed" to replace Bunny is ****ing stupid. I'm biased a very small, almost unnoticeable amount when it comes to him, and I don't mind him going down and continuing to improve despite the Beanpot B***h, but the fact is that he was holding his own plenty on that fourth line.

And it cannot be mentioned enough that Chuck snorted a Mount Everest of angel dust this summer and signed at least 560 guys for the exact purpose these two guys he acquired today are meant to fulfill. He's a ****ing bozo.

Let the record show I was totally fine with rolling him out there. However, I think he’s more of a passenger on that line and could be improved on. I don’t think it’s guaranteed the new guys will, but I could see it happening. Hopefully come playoff time if a change is needed it will be made.

 

[Striiker]

Laughton is on pace for like 35 points at ES this season. Hes actually not only a 3rd liner but a good one. He is better suited for 3LW than 3C though.

NAK has actually produced at a 3rd line rate too at 5v5. If hes a 4th liner hes a way above average one.

Id consider Pits a low end 3rd liner / high end 4th liner.

Raffl is excellent defensively but offensively a low end 3rd liner / high end 4th liner.

Bunnaman a low end 4th liner at this point.

I really don't think Laughton belongs on the third line. I think he can fill in there, depending on who he's with and how he's playing at the time, but I think he belongs on the 4th line in the long term. I know he's scored a lot this year, but his shooting % is super high... 19.64% at 5v5. His goals/60 at 5v5 are more than double they've ever been before (1.31 vs a previous high of 0.63).

I really like NAK, but I think that's a similar case. He can fill in, but when he was in the middle six I just kept thinking that he'd be more effective on the 4th line and I think he's actually produced more there than he did when he was higher in the lineup. I want him flying around, creating chaos, and scoring when the opportunity arises. I think when you're in the top 9 scoring is more of a focus/expectation and I don't know if that would work with him.

Raffl and Pitlick, yet again, similar cases. They can fill in but I don't think that's where they should be. They're more of the "don't hurt you" type than the type that adds an element of scoring to a line.

We're on the same page with Bunnaman.

Like I said previously (not sure which thread), I think that the reason we've done so well with five 4th liners is because, while it obviously isn't ideal, four of them have performed like extremely high end 4th liners. Right on the cusp of being 3rd liners, but I personally wouldn't say they actually are. Even though I'd prefer to not have guys like Laughton or Pitlick on the 3rd line, it gets balanced out because I think our 4th line has been about as great as a 4th line could realistically be and is better than the opponents 4th line pretty much every night.

And don't get me wrong, I really like all of these players and I don't have a complaint about any of them this year.

 

[Tripod]

We just sent down our lucky charm.

If we lose the next game then this is a confirmed 100% fact.

Not if Ghost plays....

 

[Striiker]

Not if Ghost plays....

 

[Rebels57]

I really don't think Laughton belongs on the third line. I think he can fill in there, depending on who he's with and how he's playing at the time, but I think he belongs on the 4th line in the long term. I know he's scored a lot this year, but his shooting % is super high... 19.64% at 5v5. His goals/60 at 5v5 are more than double they've ever been before (1.31 vs a previous high of 0.63).

I really like NAK, but I think that's a similar case. He can fill in, but when he was in the middle six I just kept thinking that he'd be more effective on the 4th line and I think he's actually produced more there than he did when he was higher in the lineup. I want him flying around, creating chaos, and scoring when the opportunity arises. I think when you're in the top 9 scoring is more of a focus/expectation and I don't know if that would work with him.

Raffl and Pitlick, yet again, similar cases. They can fill in but I don't think that's where they should be. They're more of the "don't hurt you" type than the type that adds an element of scoring to a line.

We're on the same page with Bunnaman.

Like I said previously (not sure which thread), I think that the reason we've done so well with five 4th liners is because, while it obviously isn't ideal, four of them have performed like extremely high end 4th liners. Right on the cusp of being 3rd liners, but I personally wouldn't say they actually are. Even though I'd prefer to not have guys like Laughton or Pitlick on the 3rd line, it gets balanced out because I think our 4th line has been about as great as a 4th line could realistically be and is better than the opponents 4th line pretty much every night.

And don't get me wrong, I really like all of these players and I don't have a complaint about any of them this year.

Laughton is on pace for just under 40 points, all at ES (20 ES points in 42 games). Thats as much ES production as you can expect out of any 3rd liner in the NHL. This Laughton is a 4th line narrative this season is false...with one caveat..he should be on the wing.

In fact, with Farabee out our best two 2nd line LW options are JVR and Laughton and Laughton has shown a lot more chemistry with Hayes.

I dont disagree on Raffl, Pitlick and NAK though.

 

[deadhead]

Reality check, very few teams have more than six forwards who score 30+ ES points in a season.
Last season:
TB 7
Bos 5
Tor 7
Wash 8
NYI 6
Pens 6
Car 4
CBJ 7
Nash 5
Jets 5
Blues 6
Stars 3
Col 4
Cal 6
SJ 8
VGK 7

Flyers have 6 who should hit this mark (Couts, G, TK, Voracek, Hayes, JVR), Laughton and Farabee had an outside shot.

 

[Rebels57]

Giroux - Couturier - Voracek
Laughton - Hayes - Konecny
JVR - Grant - Pitlick
Raffl - Thompson - NAK

If Patty comes back then you bump Grant to 4C and Thompson to the press box.

 

[deadhead]

Giroux - Couturier - Voracek
Laughton - Hayes - Konecny
JVR - Grant - Pitlick
Raffl - Thompson - NAK

If Patty comes back then you bump Grant to 4C and Thompson to the press box.

That's not a bad 12, and you can rotate Farabee and Frost in at some point, even Bunnaman.

Next year, Thompson, Grant and Pitlick are UFAs, so there are spots for the 3 kids plus whoever they sign from college or who is ready to graduate from LHV.

 

[Striiker]

Laughton is on pace for just under 40 points, all at ES (20 ES points in 42 games). Thats as much ES production as you can expect out of any 3rd liner in the NHL. This Laughton is a 4th line narrative this season is false...with one caveat..he should be on the wing.

In fact, with Farabee out our best two 2nd line LW options are JVR and Laughton and Laughton has shown a lot more chemistry with Hayes.

I dont disagree on Raffl, Pitlick and NAK though.

Yeah, he's not scoring like a 4th liner, but like I said, that's because of the unsustainable shooting %. If he had the same shooting % as last year he'd have 6 total goals and be pacing for 27 total points instead.

I do agree though, he's the least 4th-liney of these guys and if I were going to have any of them on the 3rd line it'd be him. But yeah, definitely at wing, not center. If he's your worst top 9 winger then OK, that's much more tolerable, but my main point is more that we have two guys on the 3rd line who aren't where they belong.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Even if Patrick ends up playing this year it’s getting to the point where it’s questionable if there’s enough games for him to get back into the swing of things.

After tomorrow we’ll have 19 regular season games remaining.

 

[Flyer lurker]

I want the Robert Hagg version of this youtube

 

[baudib1]

Saying Ghost shouldn't play until the Flyers lose a couple in a row is peak Carchidi.

 

[DancingPanther]

Reality check, very few teams have more than six forwards who score 30+ ES points in a season.
Last season:
TB 7
Bos 5
Tor 7
Wash 8
NYI 6
Pens 6
Car 4
CBJ 7
Nash 5
Jets 5
Blues 6
Stars 3
Col 4
Cal 6
SJ 8
VGK 7

Flyers have 6 who should hit this mark (Couts, G, TK, Voracek, Hayes, JVR), Laughton and Farabee had an outside shot.

And yet...Farabee, scoring at this magical 30+ ES pt, and Frost at 26 pts, which is pretty damn close.....both "aren't ready yet, but will be soon" as you have said so, so many times.

So what is it then? 30 ES pts or not? You've set this 30 ES pts as a some sort of NHL benchmark for good (great?) players.... How many of your above tally there were rookies, like the ones we have that "aren't ready yet, but will be soon"?

This is what happens when someone keeps talking and talking....eventually they talk themselves right out of the argument. Sometimes it's quicker than others though

 

[Alex K]

G-Coots-Jake
JVR-Hayes-Neck
Grant-Laughton-Pitlick
Raffl-Thompson-NAK

Provy-Nisky
Sanheim-Myers
Ghost-Braun

PP1
Coots
G-Neck-Jake
Ghost (if he's ready)

PP2
JVR-Hayes-???
Provy-Nisky/Sanheim

Oh boy, I really hope NP is back this season.

 

[Appleyard]

Laughton is on pace for like 35 points at ES this season. Hes actually not only a 3rd liner but a good one. He is better suited for 3LW than 3C though.

NAK has actually produced at a 3rd line rate too at 5v5. If hes a 4th liner hes a way above average one.

Id consider Pits a low end 3rd liner / high end 4th liner.

Raffl is excellent defensively but offensively a low end 3rd liner / high end 4th liner.

Bunnaman a low end 4th liner at this point.

Tbh NAK has produced at above average 2nd line level per minute!

 

[captainpaxil]

Giroux - Couturier - Voracek
Laughton - Hayes - Konecny
JVR - Grant - Pitlick
Raffl - Thompson - NAK

If Patty comes back then you bump Grant to 4C and Thompson to the press box.

I like Laughton on Hayes wing because they're both players who don't necessarily need other people for their game to work.
This is a far more traditional bottom 6 than I like and I feel bad for jvr who really needs a playmaker to produce but will be expected to do so without one

 

[Ironmanrulez]

Attention its all

you can all say whatever you want. When Farabee, Bunny, NAK, The Pimp and Frost give us a cup in 10 years AV and Fletcher make the perfect job, cause they all learned their game from Gordo in the AHL. And we all was wrong cause we want them to play in the NHL.

It´s like Konecny being benched, its like Ghost only got called up cause of injury. All this coaches and the management do is all the time the right thing!

NAK being away from this team for years instead playing VDV or Vecchioni and all the useless vets was also the right way! Cause NAK needed to learn that he is worth nothing and need to accept his role so he now can shine in a 4th line role.

Lets praise Fletcher and Hextall and Hakstok and Gordo and Scott for all the well informed moves they do!

 

[flyersfan018]

Yea I’m sure Vorobyev is gonna be a huge part in getting us a cup.

 

[Striiker]

Tbh NAK has produced at above average 2nd line level per minute!

I think he's been great and I'd love if he could keep it up, but I don't see that realistically happening.

And I'm someone who has wanted him in the NHL for years now, so I'm thrilled to see him up and playing so well. I'm just looking big picture and at what I think is sustainable.

 

[Appleyard]

I think he's been great and I'd love if he could keep it up, but I don't see that realistically happening.

And I'm someone who has wanted him in the NHL for years now, so I'm thrilled to see him up and playing so well. I'm just looking big picture and at what I think is sustainable.

1.9 P/60 is a bit higher that I guess he can sustain...

but given his AHL 5v5 scoring (where he was one of the best in the league) it would not shock me in any way, shape or form if over his 20s he produced at ~1.7 P/60 or so... firmly 2nd line level per minute.

 

[Striiker]

1.9 P/60 is a bit higher that I guess he can sustain...

but given his AHL 5v5 scoring (where he was one of the best in the league) it would not shock me in any way, shape or form if over his 20s he produced at ~1.7 P/60 or so... firmly 2nd line level per minute.

I'd be pleasantly surprised but I'm not quite as optimistic.

Personally, I'd bet on him settling into being one of the best 4th liners in the league and someone who can play higher in a pinch, but isn't ideal there. Especially considering who we have on the way.

 

[Appleyard]

Ofc not all guys score at their average level every year... but gives an indication of the amount of 5v5 scoring talent the Flyers have...

without Lindblom (1.70) and Patrick (1.56)...

 

[Appleyard]

I'd be pleasantly surprised but I'm not quite as optimistic.

Personally, I'd bet on him settling into being one of the best 4th liners in the league and someone who can play higher in a pinch, but isn't ideal there. Especially considering who we have on the way.

I think he will be a good 3rd liner... basically a slightly more "talented" Raffl is what I can see.

 

[deadhead]

And yet...Farabee, scoring at this magical 30+ ES pt, and Frost at 26 pts, which is pretty damn close.....both "aren't ready yet, but will be soon" as you have said so, so many times.

So what is it then? 30 ES pts or not? You've set this 30 ES pts as a some sort of NHL benchmark for good (great?) players.... How many of your above tally there were rookies, like the ones we have that "aren't ready yet, but will be soon"?

This is what happens when someone keeps talking and talking....eventually they talk themselves right out of the argument. Sometimes it's quicker than others though

Think of 30 ES points as a rough measure, pp/60 is a little better.
15 5x5 minutes a night = (20) 60 minute periods, so 2.0 pp60 would = 40 points
12 5x5 minutes a night = (16) 60 minute periods, so 1.5 pp60 would = 24 points

Actual point totals will depend on usage, durability and scoring rate.
500+ minutes this year (319 players):
100 players 2.0 or higher
207 players 1.5 or higher

Couts 2.47 (32st) - xGA/60 2.05 (60)
TK 2.32 (47) - xGA/60 2.27 (158)
JVR 2.31 (50) - xGA/60 2.02 (50)
Laughton 2.14 (66) - xGA/60 2.18 (126)
Voracek 2.11 (73) - xGA/60 2.07 (67)
NAK 1.86 [219 minutes] - xGA/60 1.76
Farabee 1.73 (150) - xGA/60 2.29 (170)
Frost 1.67 [213 minutes] - xGA/60 2.58
Pitlick 1.64 (179) - xGA/60 2.02 (49)
Raffl 1.54 (193) - xGA/60 2.19 (131)
Giroux 1.53 (194) - xGA/60 2.07 (119)
Grant 1.34 [493 minutes] - xGA/60 2.82
Hayes 1.31 (242) - xGA 2.30 (178)
Thompson 1.11 (273) - GA 2.38 (212)

Grant linemates - Rowney 0.87, Jones 0.94, Terry 1.15

xGA/60 has to be put into context.
If you're on a scoring line, and you score, a low xGA means your line is also preventing goals.
If you're on a checking line, with lots of D-zone starts (Grant) matched up against scoring lines, you're going to have a bad xGA.
So NAK has a great xGA b/c he's on the 4th line most of the time

Couts, JVR and Voracek are having great seasons, the last two under the radar.
Hayes is struggling, but given his career, that's more likely a matter of finding the right fit of linemates and letting them play together for an extended period.

Before you freak out about Hayes, previous five seasons: 2.33, 1.88, 1.59, 1.96, 2.19
So this season is probably an anomaly
And Giroux may be declining, but probably not this much, 2.81, 2.44 last two seasons.

Farabee and Frost have mediocre xGA numbers, especially Frost, who was never used in a checking situation.