2019-20 Roster Thread IV

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dag54

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I think the way both the potential 11OA picks are playing and how Ratcliffe is playing, the value is increasing rapidly.
Agreed. That being said, if they traded their second round pick this year and their first round pick next year for an extended Spurgeon, I'd be fine with that.
 
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deadhead

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It’s not a blanket good/bad with Trouba. It’s cost on two axes, trade and contract, plus then you have to be ok with the repeatability of his ES scoring consistently outpacing his Shot metrics. Again, it’s consistent, but it’s still there.

We're also not in a position to overpay in terms of assets or money.
We're just trying to get back to the playoffs at this point.
You overpay when your window is starting to close, and you'll have to rebuild/reload in a few years, so go for it now.
Flyers' window is just beginning to open, it's too early to push all their chips into the middle of the table.
 

deadhead

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Look at what St Louis gave for Schenn and ROR, basically 2 1st rd picks in the 20s, it was a lucky accident that we ended up with #14.
So Ratcliffe (or the equivalent, say #41 and another prospect) and the 2020 1st should be more than sufficient to land most NHL starters
 

renberg

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We're also not in a position to overpay in terms of assets or money.
We're just trying to get back to the playoffs at this point.
Before the Flyers consider dropping money and term on Trouba or any such player, I'd like to see them clean up their situations with their own RFAs; particularly Provorov, Sanheim and TK. The organization doesn't need to get into a mess like the Leafs did with Nylander with their own guys. It looked like Provorov was moving towards a deal before the Worlds and then playing in them. That should be the benchmark for what Sanheim will be getting and then TK after that. Someone came up with $3MX3 for Hartmann. I don't know about that for him; seems a bit rich. Then there's Laughton, I believe. Suffice it to say that how much these players get will influence how much money the Flyers will be dropping for FAs and players in trades.
 

baudib1

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If we're moving the 11OA for Spurgeon I want Zucker or Koivu as well. This shouldn't be up for debate.

I'm not against Trouba but I just think the price will be high. I don't want to include the 11OA, Frost, Farabee, Myers or Ghost in that deal and I don't see how it gets done otherwise. If it can, then OK.
 
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deadhead

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The comparisons I see are with Alex DeBrincat. Similar size, skills. And similar issues.

DeBrincat
xGF -.017, -.025
xGA -.007, .045
GAR EV 10.4, 12.3
GAR PP 0.8, 3.1
GAR SH -0.3, -0.1
GAR PEN 2.0, 1.2

Caufield would give you another offense first RW along with Voracek and TK.
He's obviously not going to contribute as a forechecker or SH guy, so he has to be slotted on a top 9 line.
Balancing lines will be difficult.
 

deadhead

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Two players who may really impact the FA market are Neal and Simmonds.
Reason is both fell off the cliff around 30 years old, reinforcing the growing reluctance to give long-term deals past age 32 or so.
 

Curufinwe

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Feb 28, 2013
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Before the Flyers consider dropping money and term on Trouba or any such player, I'd like to see them clean up their situations with their own RFAs; particularly Provorov, Sanheim and TK. The organization doesn't need to get into a mess like the Leafs did with Nylander with their own guys. It looked like Provorov was moving towards a deal before the Worlds and then playing in them. That should be the benchmark for what Sanheim will be getting and then TK after that. Someone came up with $3MX3 for Hartmann. I don't know about that for him; seems a bit rich. Then there's Laughton, I believe. Suffice it to say that how much these players get will influence how much money the Flyers will be dropping for FAs and players in trades.

Ideally, all the big RFAs will be signed before the draft.
 

NYCFlyer

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Either would be fine by me. They'd both be #1 defenseman on this team.
I like both of them also but would prefer Doughty over either one. Obviously depends on the cost but DD is under contract at a reasonable number and would totally solidify the D. My 2C target would be RNH. I think Couts RNH and Patrick down the middle would be really formidable adding Provy and DD on the first pair, Sanhiem and Myers on the 2nd pair and Hart in goal. Thats a real contender. I would trade Ghost, 11oa, JVR, Ratliff and some lesser pieces to get them.
 
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Rebels57

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I like both of them also but would prefer Doughty over either one. Obviously depends on the cost but DD is under contract at a reasonable number and would totally solidify the D. My 2C target would be RNH. I think Couts RNH and Patrick down the middle would be really formidable adding Provy and DD on the first pair, Sanhiem and Myers on the 2nd pair and Hart in goal. Thats a real contender. I would trade Ghost, 11oa, JVR, Ratliff and some lesser pieces to get them.

LA is not trading Doughty.
 
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TCTC

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I like both of them also but would prefer Doughty over either one. Obviously depends on the cost but DD is under contract at a reasonable number and would totally solidify the D. My 2C target would be RNH. I think Couts RNH and Patrick down the middle would be really formidable adding Provy and DD on the first pair, Sanhiem and Myers on the 2nd pair and Hart in goal. Thats a real contender. I would trade Ghost, 11oa, JVR, Ratliff and some lesser pieces to get them.
I've always been a proponent of trading for Doughty if he's made available.
If I were the Kings, I'd definitely consider trading him. Their window is closed and their current core probably won't take them to the Final again. They should get something for their best players while they can.
 

bauer

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Hagg has zero value.

giphy.gif
 

deadhead

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I wouldn't touch Doughty with that contract, while he's still a top D-man, he's not a franchise player most years, and that's a disaster of a deal. Last five seasons: two very good years, two 2nd pair years, and last year was replacement level.
8yr/$88M starting in 2019-20 when he'll be 30.

Last five seasons:
xGF/60v .055, -.013, .082, .126, -.152
xGA/60 .002, -.157, -.035, -.038, .002
GAR EV 4.6, 8.8, 2.9, 11.1. -3.3
GAR PP 1.7, 1.0, 1.7, 2.3, 1.6
GAR SH 0.6, -1.2, 1, 0.0, 0.5
GAR PEN 0.5, 1.0, 0.7, 1.1, 0.7

Which is why you give the big long-term deal to RFAs and let them walk instead of paying them big money at 30.
His first deal at $7M was a bargain, his new deal will be an anchor on the Kings.
 
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Rebels57

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10 bucks you could get a solid 2nd for him. Or use him as a valued B piece in a trade.

Divorce your value of him from his league value.

I feel like most of the league is aware that slow lumbering dmen with no puck skills have zero value.
 

deadhead

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10 bucks you could get a solid 2nd for him. Or use him as a valued B piece in a trade.

Divorce your value of him from his league value.

Yeah, look at what free agent defensemen on the wrong side of 30 with similar skills have received.

He's not Manning, teams can look at him last year and figure if they give him the right partner and don't overuse him he can be a solid contributor - you do need to roll six defensemen, and for a lot of teams (like the Flyers the last decade) #5 and #6 are often marginal players.
 
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