2019-20 Prospects Thread

[sting101]

Kole Lind very much has NHL level skill and hockey sense. His U22 AHL numbers bode well for games as an NHLer.

Agree he's not a unicorn Kucherov M.Stone type of selection but if he gains in the areas of necessity he absolutely still has the potential to be a solid middle six player.

It's good to be realistic. But given his draft position he's doing just fine. The majority of the players that have surpassed him are better physical specimens while Kole has better playmaking hands and IQ. He also has an innate ability to come away with pucks and a good frame. Given his late birthday and skinny unathletic jr frame he is/was a prospect that requires a certain degree of patience.

This year is huge for him. If he becomes a go to guy for Utica he is on his way. He's not the type of player that drives ice with his legs but he very much doesn't need to be great skater to be effective. Think of Toffoli and Boeser...not fast but deadly hands. This is what he needs to become. If he's not a home working on his shot like Kesler and his legs like Horvat then he's wasting a massive opportunity.

Hoping for the best

 

[dbaz]

Is there even going to be a this year? AHL relies heavily on gate admissions. Non nhl owned prob cant operate. Could be NHL or year off for lots of prospects

 

[MS]

Kole Lind very much has NHL level skill and hockey sense. His U22 AHL numbers bode well for games as an NHLer.

Agree he's not a unicorn Kucherov M.Stone type of selection but if he gains in the areas of necessity he absolutely still has the potential to be a solid middle six player.

It's good to be realistic. But given his draft position he's doing just fine. The majority of the players that have surpassed him are better physical specimens while Kole has better playmaking hands and IQ. He also has an innate ability to come away with pucks and a good frame. Given his late birthday and skinny unathletic jr frame he is/was a prospect that requires a certain degree of patience.

This year is huge for him. If he becomes a go to guy for Utica he is on his way. He's not the type of player that drives ice with his legs but he very much doesn't need to be great skater to be effective. Think of Toffoli and Boeser...not fast but deadly hands. This is what he needs to become. If he's not a home working on his shot like Kesler and his legs like Horvat then he's wasting a massive opportunity.

Hoping for the best

He does not have deadly hands or a deadly shot, and is slow.

When he wasn't on a line with Reid Boucher - who was the most dominant player in the AHL last year - he scored under 0.5 points/game. He's a *substantially* worse player than Brendan Gaunce at the same age at both ends of the ice.

He's disappointed slightly given his draft position. When you're still in the AHL after 100+ games there, your chances of ever being an NHL player with value are very limited. And he's probably going to get to close to 200 AHL games before establishing himself as a regular, because I don't think anyone thinks he's anywhere near ready to make the team next year.

Right now he has probably a 20% chance of becoming a serviceable depth NHLer. He isn't going to be a top-6 guy or point producer in the NHL.

 

[sting101]

He does not have deadly hands or a deadly shot, and is slow.

When he wasn't on a line with Reid Boucher - who was the most dominant player in the AHL last year - he scored under 0.5 points/game. He's a *substantially* worse player than Brendan Gaunce at the same age at both ends of the ice.

He's disappointed slightly given his draft position. When you're still in the AHL after 100+ games there, your chances of ever being an NHL player with value are very limited. And he's probably going to get to close to 200 AHL games before establishing himself as a regular, because I don't think anyone thinks he's anywhere near ready to make the team next year.

Right now he has probably a 20% chance of becoming a serviceable depth NHLer. He isn't going to be a top-6 guy or point producer in the NHL.

Which is exactly what i said he needed to be developing or he's wasting an opportunity. Apologize if it wasn't meant as a rebuttal and agree just providing clarity.

I thought reports were of him playing best along side of Bailey? Anyway my viewings were extremely limited of the AHL so i will defer somewhat. Gaunce is a poor comp though in that Gaunce was always a man child and plays a vastly different game.

Yes i guess he's a bit disappointing but his U22 AHL numbers are still in line with a player who will see NHL games in the near future and it is always possible he has a surge of growth and strength that puts him in the conversation as a viable middle six NHLer. I completely agree if he needs another year or 200 games and doesn't turn heads at the next camp then he's fallen on the depth chart to the point of being a career AHLer. Lots of good top9 forwards have played 100 games in the AHL

 

[MS]

Which is exactly what i said he needed to be developing or he's wasting an opportunity. Apologize if it wasn't meant as a rebuttal and agree just providing clarity.

I thought reports were of him playing best along side of Bailey? Anyway my viewings were extremely limited of the AHL so i will defer somewhat. Gaunce is a poor comp though in that Gaunce was always a man child and plays a vastly different game.

Yes i guess he's a bit disappointing but his U22 AHL numbers are still in line with a player who will see NHL games in the near future and it is always possible he has a surge of growth and strength that puts him in the conversation as a viable middle six NHLer. I completely agree if he needs another year or 200 games and doesn't turn heads at the next camp then he's fallen on the depth chart to the point of being a career AHLer. Lots of good top9 forwards have played 100 games in the AHL

I'm sure he'll see games at some point. It's a huge difference between 'seeing games' and actually sticking as a regular NHLer, though. Massive.

Lind got a lot of points early next to Boucher. But he did play far better last season and did develop. He was *brutal* in 18-19.

'Middle-6' implies a player who can play on a 2nd line and clear 40 points at stages of his career. I simply do not see that with this player. He's smart but his physical gifts are very lacking. He's slow, he doesn't have a good shot or finishing skills, and he's weakly built. I can see him having enough defensive chops/puck skills/jam to be a bottom-6 guy but really nothing more than that. And even that is not a likely outcome.

 

[Fatass]

I'm sure he'll see games at some point. It's a huge difference between 'seeing games' and actually sticking as a regular NHLer, though. Massive.

Lind got a lot of points early next to Boucher. But he did play far better last season and did develop. He was *brutal* in 18-19.

'Middle-6' implies a player who can play on a 2nd line and clear 40 points at stages of his career. I simply do not see that with this player. He's smart but his physical gifts are very lacking. He's slow, he doesn't have a good shot or finishing skills, and he's weakly built. I can see him having enough defensive chops/puck skills/jam to be a bottom-6 guy but really nothing more than that. And even that is not a likely outcome.

Lind skates fine and is known for a very good shot. He has a very high hockey iq too. Plus, he’s a pest. He sounds like an ideal third line player, who can (when needed) play up in the top six for short stretches.
That’s a very good, and valuable player.
He’s still physically maturing though, so we wait.

 

[MS]

Lind skates fine and is known for a very good shot. He has a very high hockey iq too. Plus, he’s a pest. He sounds like an ideal third line player, who can (when needed) play up in the top six for short stretches.
That’s a very good, and valuable player.
He’s still physically maturing though, so we wait.

He does not 'skate fine'.
He does not have a very good shot.

This is not true no matter how many times you repeat it. He is slow and weak on his skates, and his finishing skills suck.

His one offensive skill is that he does have good vision and IQ and can find seams to make cute passes to open teammates.

 

[Fatass]

He does not 'skate fine'.
He does not have a very good shot.

This is not true no matter how many times you repeat it. He is slow and weak on his skates, and his finishing skills suck.

His one offensive skill is that he does have good vision and IQ and can find seams to make cute passes to open teammates.

I posted several links to articles (scouting reports) that state he does skate well, and does have a very good shot, and that both will even get better as he physically matures.
You can deny the evidence if you choose. But it’s been posted, and there for you to read, and it clearly doesn’t support your opinion.

 

[MS]

I posted several links to articles (scouting reports) that state he does skate well, and does have a very good shot, and that both will even get better as he physically matures.
You can deny the evidence if you choose. But it’s been posted, and there for you to read, and it clearly doesn’t support your opinion.

I don't care what someone said about him in 2018 when he was playing junior. Cody Hodgson was a 'great defensive player' when he was in junior. How accurate was that? Things become more obvious when players move up levels. Plus these scouting reports tend to be generic (90% of players end up being called 'good skaters' at that age which obviously can't be true ... this happens because people evaluate relative to their junior peers and a 'good skater' relative to WHL teenagers becomes an average skater relative to AHL pros and a bad skater relative to NHLers) and written by people who have barely seen the players play, if at all.

I've watched Lind play about 50 games over the past two years in Utica. He's slow relative to AHL players, much less NHLers. He's weak on his skates. His shot isn't good and most of his goals are the result of positioning and hands. What he does have is a bit of jam and good vision of the ice.

Anything saying that this player projects as a good-skating player with a good shot at the NHL level is flat-out wrong. Period.

 

[Fatass]

I don't care what someone said about him in 2018 when he was playing junior. Cody Hodgson was a 'great defensive player' when he was in junior. How accurate was that? Things become more obvious when players move up levels. Plus these scouting reports tend to be generic (90% of players end up being called 'good skaters' at that age which obviously can't be true ... this happens because people evaluate relative to their junior peers and a 'good skater' relative to WHL teenagers becomes an average skater relative to AHL pros and a bad skater relative to NHLers) and written by people who have barely seen the players play, if at all.

I've watched Lind play about 50 games over the past two years in Utica. He's slow relative to AHL players, much less NHLers. He's weak on his skates. His shot isn't good and most of his goals are the result of positioning and hands. What he does have is a bit of jam and good vision of the ice.

Anything saying that this player projects as a good-skating player with a good shot at the NHL level is flat-out wrong. Period.

You’re entitled to your opinion, but it’s not supported by any evidence other than your own anecdotes.
Do you have anyone else’s opinion (and not HF posters, but actual hockey people) but your own to rely upon?

 

[MS]

You’re entitled to your opinion, but it’s not supported by any evidence other than your own anecdotes.
Do you have anyone else’s opinion (and not HF posters, but actual hockey people) but your own to rely upon?

Honestly, I really don't care what other people say. I trust my opinions.

But my opinions on Lind are pretty much entirely in line with those of the rest of the posters here who watch Utica regularly.

As for evidence, if this was a good skater with a great shot he would have scored more than 19 goals in 120 AHL games to this point.

 

[Bad Goalie]

I don't care what someone said about him in 2018 when he was playing junior. Cody Hodgson was a 'great defensive player' when he was in junior. How accurate was that? Things become more obvious when players move up levels. Plus these scouting reports tend to be generic (90% of players end up being called 'good skaters' at that age which obviously can't be true ... this happens because people evaluate relative to their junior peers and a 'good skater' relative to WHL teenagers becomes an average skater relative to AHL pros and a bad skater relative to NHLers) and written by people who have barely seen the players play, if at all.

I've watched Lind play about 50 games over the past two years in Utica. He's slow relative to AHL players, much less NHLers. He's weak on his skates. His shot isn't good and most of his goals are the result of positioning and hands. What he does have is a bit of jam and good vision of the ice.

Anything saying that this player projects as a good-skating player with a good shot at the NHL level is flat-out wrong. Period.

I've watched him play every one of his AHL games and I agree with your assessments.
My posts number several in this exact thread and my thoughts on his play are littered throughout the the Utica Comets pages over the past 2 seasons. It's just not something I wish to repeat again for the umpteenth time.

 

[VanJack]

Canucks should declare a self-imposed moratorium on drafting players from the Dub. A high first rounder on Virtanen; a high second-rounder on Lind; and a mid-range second rounder on Jett Woo. Clearly with the benefit of hindsight, there were probably a lot better options on the board with those picks.

But come to think of it, their record at drafting players out of the OHL and the QMJHL is actually worse, if that's possible. You can only hope the recent shakeup in the scouting department is designed to turn their dismal CHL scouting record around.

 

[bandwagonesque]

When you're still in the AHL after 100+ games there, your chances of ever being an NHL player with value are very limited.

Josh Leivo played 165 AHL games, interrupted by 16 total NHL games in which he scored 3 points, before making the league. Antoine Roussel played over 150 AHL games before playing an NHL game. Jay Beagle played 170. MacEwan, who seems to be on his way to an NHL career, also played over 100 AHL games before making the league. So did Jordie Benn.

 

[Hansen]

Josh Leivo played 165 AHL games, interrupted by 16 total NHL games in which he scored 3 points, before making the league. Antoine Roussel played over 150 AHL games before playing an NHL game. Jay Beagle played 170. MacEwan, who seems to be on his way to an NHL career, also played over 100 AHL games before making the league. So did Jordie Benn.

*with value*

 

[MS]

Josh Leivo played 165 AHL games, interrupted by 16 total NHL games in which he scored 3 points, before making the league. Antoine Roussel played over 150 AHL games before playing an NHL game. Jay Beagle played 170. MacEwan, who seems to be on his way to an NHL career, also played over 100 AHL games before making the league. So did Jordie Benn.

This was a discussion of whether Lind was projecting as a top-6 forward. Yes, there are plenty of fungible bottom-6 types who played 100+ games in the AHL.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

You’re entitled to your opinion, but it’s not supported by any evidence other than your own anecdotes.
Do you have anyone else’s opinion (and not HF posters, but actual hockey people) but your own to rely upon?

"Hockey people" aren't infallible though. These are guys that think Hischier and Patrick are better than Petterson. Or Hodgson is a better prospect than Karlsson. Lots and lots of example where they are right, but also lots of times they are wrong. Sometimes it is better to watch the players/prospects yourself and come to your own conclusion, you'll probably find that your "hit rate" to not be that far off from them.
In my opinion Lind is a below average skater, but you'll see at the next camp or next time he gets some pre-season/NHL games.

 

[xtra]

Sounds like rathbone will sign. It would be a dumb move from him to not sign with all the uncertainty.

Take the signing bonus and at least get yourself a house if hockey doesn’t pan out.

 

[BB06]

This was a discussion of whether Lind was projecting as a top-6 forward. Yes, there are plenty of fungible bottom-6 types who played 100+ games in the AHL.

Basically this. The wait of 4-5+ years would be for a dime in dozen bottom 6 non-impact player.

 

[MS]

Basically this. The wait of 4-5+ years would be for a dime in dozen bottom 6 non-impact player.

This should be pretty obvious just by looking at our current roster :

Petterssson - 0 AHL games
Boeser - 0 AHL games
Horvat - 5 AHL games on injury rehab, as an underage player
Miller - 101 AHL games BUT half of those were as an underage player. He spent basically the entire 12-13 lockout season in the NHL at age 19, then was returned to the AHL for 50 games worth of stints later on.
Pearson - 105 AHL games
Virtanen - 67 AHL games
Gaudette - 16 AHL games
Sutter - 36 AHL games
Eriksson - 95 AHL games
Toffoli - 77 AHL games
Ferland - 64 AHL games
Motte - 65 AHL games
Leivo - 170 AHL games
Roussel - 146 AHL games
Beagle - 211 AHL games
Schaller - 174 AHL games

Hughes - 0 AHL games
Edler - 51 AHL games
Myers - 0 AHL games
Tanev - 73 AHL games (played more during the 12-13 lockout but this was only because there was no NHL)
Stecher - 0 AHL games
Fantenberg - 27 AHL games (although he came older as an older Euro pro)
Benn - 265 minor pro games

__________

Good players who become impact NHL players or players of legitimate quality and value blow through the AHL or never see that league. Even the guys who had 'long' AHL stays like Miller/Eriksson/Pearson/Toffoli topped out at ~100 games and were all NHL regulars by the end of their 21 y/o seasons (the same age Lind was last year).

The guys who linger in the AHL end up being your Roussel/Leivo/Benn/Beagle/Schaller low-value depth journeyman types. The fact that Kole Lind is already at 120 AHL games and not knocking on the NHL door means he's very, very unlikely ever to be a player of substantial value for this organization.

 

[Hansen]

Still waiting for Nicklas Jensen to come back from Europe and be the 35 goal scorer I dreamed he'd be, not too late for him yet

 

[Bad Goalie]

This should be pretty obvious just by looking at our current roster :

Petterssson - 0 AHL games
Boeser - 0 AHL games
Horvat - 5 AHL games on injury rehab, as an underage player
Miller - 101 AHL games BUT half of those were as an underage player. He spent basically the entire 12-13 lockout season in the NHL at age 19, then was returned to the AHL for 50 games worth of stints later on.
Pearson - 105 AHL games
Virtanen - 67 AHL games
Gaudette - 16 AHL games
Sutter - 36 AHL games
Eriksson - 95 AHL games
Toffoli - 77 AHL games
Ferland - 64 AHL games
Motte - 65 AHL games
Leivo - 170 AHL games
Roussel - 146 AHL games
Beagle - 211 AHL games
Schaller - 174 AHL games

Hughes - 0 AHL games
Edler - 51 AHL games
Myers - 0 AHL games
Tanev - 73 AHL games (played more during the 12-13 lockout but this was only because there was no NHL)
Stecher - 0 AHL games
Fantenberg - 27 AHL games (although he came older as an older Euro pro)
Benn - 265 minor pro games

__________

Good players who become impact NHL players or players of legitimate quality and value blow through the AHL or never see that league. Even the guys who had 'long' AHL stays like Miller/Eriksson/Pearson/Toffoli topped out at ~100 games and were all NHL regulars by the end of their 21 y/o seasons (the same age Lind was last year).

The guys who linger in the AHL end up being your Roussel/Leivo/Benn/Beagle/Schaller low-value depth journeyman types. The fact that Kole Lind is already at 120 AHL games and not knocking on the NHL door means he's very, very unlikely ever to be a player of substantial value for this organization.

Hate to nit pick and not that it matters, but Stecher played 4 games for the Utica Comets at the beginning of his rookie pro season. He played them all on the road. The Comets fan base never got to see him in person.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Still waiting for Nicklas Jensen to come back from Europe and be the 35 goal scorer I dreamed he'd be, not too late for him yet

He was definitely a disappointment. He would have flashes of offensive brilliance and then eons of struggling. Travis wanted him to play both ends of the rink. Thus, when he played good D the O went to pot and vice versa.

When traded to the Rangers his AHL scoring noticeably went up, 25 PTs/41GP and 55 PTS/70 GP. When he first arrived for the 2nd half of the '15-16 season, he was still playing under the influence of Travis Green's teaching. The 2nd season defense went to the wind the big 55PTs/70GP, but he was -27. You have to just flat out not give a tinker about your D with those kind of numbers. He got 7 games with the Rangers in that second season and was pointless.

 

[Hansen]

He was definitely a disappointment. He would have flashes of offensive brilliance and then eons of struggling. Travis wanted him to play both ends of the rink. Thus, when he played good D the O went to pot and vice versa.

When traded to the Rangers his AHL scoring noticeably went up, 25 PTs/41GP and 55 PTS/70 GP. When he first arrived for the 2nd half of the '15-16 season, he was still playing under the influence of Travis Green's teaching. The 2nd season defense went to the wind the big 55PTs/70GP, but he was -27. You have to just flat out not give a tinker about your D with those kind of numbers. He got 7 games with the Rangers in that second season and was pointless.

He was a great scorer and showed it in brief stints as a younger player with the Canucks. He had some pretty glaring issues for sure. I just think about how furious he would get at this teammates when he played for Team Denmark at the WJC's and he would refuse to pass and just try to be a one man army. You don't want that.

I was being facetious with my remark though, Jensen was the first prospect I really followed, and I'd been a big fan of his even before the 2011 draft. I was convinced he'd be a Loui Eriksson 2.0 (lmao)

 

[lawrence]

don't know where else to post this