Prospect Info: 2019-20 Prospects Thread (CHL, NCAA, Junior A, Europe)

[tigervixxxen]

There is no plan, either be given a job in camp or wait again until the next year. I agree that spots are given to top prospects, the others are fodder for Billington’s sim GM of the Eagles. Vets or older pro prospects, most with significant development in another org or the NCAA, get the callup looks. After 2 years pro the direction of a prospect’s career is mostly known here. So it’s not really a matter of rushing either way.

 

[flyfysher]

There is no plan, either be given a job in camp or wait again until the next year. I agree that spots are given to top prospects, the others are fodder for Billington’s sim GM of the Eagles. Vets or older pro prospects, most with significant development in another org or the NCAA, get the callup looks. After 2 years pro the direction of a prospect’s career is mostly known here. So it’s not really a matter of rushing either way.

Perhaps a better question is do they have a plan now that they're an AHL team? I love what Sakic has done with the Avs and he really has an opportunity to develop the organization by improving the Eagles.

 

[Pokecheque]

Probably someone on Grand Rapids. We can't tell, because if they didn't get a chance at a good time and it hurt them, we don't know if they ever had it. Or they just came in later than necessary and missed NHL years.

I wish I could find the entry but Prashanth Iyer took the Wings to task a couple years ago for (paraphrasing here) only paying attention to a prospect if he was busting down the door to the NHL. The concern is that said player stops developing and picks up bad habits in a grinder-happy league.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

If you go strictly by definition Hench and cgf are right that the Avs tend to rush their top picks. But if you go by the HFBoards meaning "rushing a player" is certainly a negative term. You will never see somebody using the term "rushed" when the team brought up a player right away and it was successful. You will not see anybody use that term as well when the player is given a few games (9 or less) and they sent him back because they judged he was not ready.

I'm in the HFBoards camp. Duchene, Landy, Mikko were not rushed. Jost to me is the only one that was rushed. He was not having success and they kept him up with the big club. Even though they tried to sign Makar last year we can't say they tried to rush him because we have no idea how he would have played last season. ROR could be debated as he was having problems producing but it could be argued he was not because he was playing so well defensively.

 

[cgf]

I wish I could find the entry but Prashanth Iyer took the Wings to task a couple years ago for (paraphrasing here) only paying attention to a prospect if he was busting down the door to the NHL. The concern is that said player stops developing and picks up bad habits in a grinder-happy league.

Which is also a perfectly fair concern...and why I emphasis there being a balance between building players up before moving them on & keeping them challenged enough to achieve ideal growth, which must be struck.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Perhaps a better question is do they have a plan now that they're an AHL team? I love what Sakic has done with the Avs and he really has an opportunity to develop the organization by improving the Eagles.

No, the same people are in charge of AHL/development who have always been in charge. The only thing last year showed that having a close proximity AHL team let them run a thinner roster at the NHL level. Billington actually said in an interview he forgot that he could call guys up quicker.

 

[flyfysher]

No, the same people are in charge of AHL/development who have always been in charge. The only thing last year showed that having a close proximity AHL team let them run a thinner roster at the NHL level. Billington actually said in an interview he forgot that he could call guys up quicker.

Kind of wondered because someone wrote they're adding to the BEC facility complex with a 10,000 seat arena and the Eagles have always had a dedicated fan base. My sense was that the ownership always wanted to develop a championship club but I don't really know. That said, I plan on going to more Eagles games this year. BTW, which organizations (teams) do you, Hench and cgf think are the best at developing (not rushing) players and bringing them up in a timely manner?

 

[cgf]

Honestly, I don't even know if rushing players is a bad thing in this sport. It's just not the way I lean ideologically (though I'm non-dogmatic on this if the evidence disagrees) and I think it's our organization's first instinct with its high picks.

 

[Foppa2118]

Arizona has been crap for 5+ years now. They don't move prospects with as much haste. Ottawa is a slower cook team despite being on the poorer end. Every team handles it a bit differently to an extent.

Since the 2009 draft the Avs have had 5 picks in the top 5 of the draft and 7 in the top 10.

The Coyotes have only had 2 picks in the top 5 and 4 in the top 10 during that time. The Sens have 1 pick in the top 5, and only 3 in the top 10 during that time.

These teams don't handle their prospects any differently than the Avs. They just haven't drafted as many prospects as good as Duchene, MacKinnon, Landy, and Mikko.

Jacok Chychrun - Made NHL right away in draft +1 year
Mikkel Boedker - Made NHL right away in draft +1 year
Kyle Turris - 3 NHL games at end of draft +1 year. Made NHL full time in draft +2
Clayton Keller - 3 NHL games in draft +1 year after NCAA season ended. Full time in draft +2.
OEL - Made NHL in draft +2 year
Peter Mueller - Made NHL in draft +2 year
Dylan Strome - 7 NHL games in draft +2 season. Then split time between AHL and NHL.
Max Domi - Made NHL in draft +3 year
Brandon Gormley - Given a 3 game AHL tryout at the end of his draft +1 season

Brady Tkachuk - Made NHL right away in draft +1 year
Mika Zibanejad - 9 game tryout at end of draft +1 year. Split time between AHL and NHL in draft +2.
Curtis Lazar - Made NHL in draft + 2 year

 

[tigervixxxen]

Kind of wondered because someone wrote they're adding to the BEC facility complex with a 10,000 seat arena and the Eagles have always had a dedicated fan base. My sense was that the ownership always wanted to develop a championship club but I don't really know. That said, I plan on going to more Eagles games this year. BTW, which organizations (teams) do you, Hench and cgf think are the best at developing (not rushing) players and bringing them up in a timely manner?

Tampa is one. They had three second year pro 21 year old non-first round picks graduate from their AHL squad last year who played significant games for them. They figured something out over there.

 

[Papa Francouz]

 

[henchman21]

Kind of wondered because someone wrote they're adding to the BEC facility complex with a 10,000 seat arena and the Eagles have always had a dedicated fan base. My sense was that the ownership always wanted to develop a championship club but I don't really know. That said, I plan on going to more Eagles games this year. BTW, which organizations (teams) do you, Hench and cgf think are the best at developing (not rushing) players and bringing them up in a timely manner?

Tampa, Anaheim, and Ottawa are probably the three best development systems in the NHL. Continuously churn out good talent and seemingly out of no where.

 

[Chiarelli]

Tampa, Anaheim, and Ottawa are probably the three best development systems in the NHL. Continuously churn out good talent and seemingly out of no where.

I like Boston and Montreal as well

 

[henchman21]

I like Boston and Montreal as well

Also good... there are a select 6-8 teams that are better than the rest. Next 16-18 that are average. Then the bottom. No one model is perfect. No one team has it right.

 

[henchman21]

I like Boston and Montreal as well

Also good... there are a select 6-8 teams that are better than the rest. Next 16-18 that are average. Then the bottom. No one model is perfect. No one team has it right.

 

[Pokecheque]

Montreal actually had some issues with their AHL affiliate for a while there. While Trevor Timmins remains a very respected figure in hockey circles, our old friend Sylvain Lefebvre held onto the Bulldogs/Rocket gig for an inordinately long time, and was patently terrible. Some Habs fans say he outright ruined Jarred Tinordi because he basically turned him into a goon (again, not sure if I buy that, it could just be that Tinordi just wasn't good enough). But the Habs have revamped their coaching at the AHL/NHL levels and appear to be back on the right track.

I agree about everything said about Billington, but I think he's just too entrenched. I don't see him being moved or removed anytime soon, unless the people running the Eagles say something perhaps. That said, I actually do like some of what they've done this offseason to bolster the farm club, and I assume he played some part in that as GM of the Eagles.

 

[henchman21]

There is no plan, either be given a job in camp or wait again until the next year. I agree that spots are given to top prospects, the others are fodder for Billington’s sim GM of the Eagles. Vets or older pro prospects, most with significant development in another org or the NCAA, get the callup looks. After 2 years pro the direction of a prospect’s career is mostly known here. So it’s not really a matter of rushing either way.

Saying there is no plan is incredibly dismissive. You may not agree, you may not see it, whatever the case... but no plan is basically saying they are doing nothing but binging The Office on Netflix all day.

 

[Foxtail]

Duchene 55 point rookie season..

Landeskog/MacKinnon..

Yeah they sure were rushed too soon

Duchene was also a runner up for tbe Calder but I think he should have won it as well

 

[Foxtail]

I don't have time to scan all the photos to accommodate your preference lol. Point being they were successful, so they weren't rushed too soon. Seems like you're stretching things just to fit your argument.

But whatever, this is silly.

Like , don't have my like button so I'll have to like this way haha

 

[tigervixxxen]

Montreal actually had some issues with their AHL affiliate for a while there. While Trevor Timmins remains a very respected figure in hockey circles, our old friend Sylvain Lefebvre held onto the Bulldogs/Rocket gig for an inordinately long time, and was patently terrible. Some Habs fans say he outright ruined Jarred Tinordi because he basically turned him into a goon (again, not sure if I buy that, it could just be that Tinordi just wasn't good enough). But the Habs have revamped their coaching at the AHL/NHL levels and appear to be back on the right track.

I agree about everything said about Billington, but I think he's just too entrenched. I don't see him being moved or removed anytime soon, unless the people running the Eagles say something perhaps. That said, I actually do like some of what they've done this offseason to bolster the farm club, and I assume he played some part in that as GM of the Eagles.

They’ve been paying big money for vets since 2014. Just the problem is they’d call them up and get hurt (Ben Street, two years in a row) or they’d be completely ineffective in our offense depressed system (the O’Brien, Whitney, Sislo year). Billington said this summer in the Athletic that his goal is to bring vets in to compete for roster spots on the Avs, which is not the point either. We’ll see how great their plan is this year when we see who has to play in the ECHL or eat nachos.

 

[henchman21]

They’ve been paying big money for vets since 2014. Just the problem is they’d call them up and get hurt (Ben Street, two years in a row) or they’d be completely ineffective in our offense depressed system (the O’Brien, Whitney, Sislo year). Billington said this summer in the Athletic that his goal is to bring vets in to compete for roster spots on the Avs, which is not the point either. We’ll see how great their plan is this year when we see who has to play in the ECHL or eat nachos.

So they do have a plan now?

 

[tigervixxxen]

So they do have a plan now?

According to you

 

[henchman21]

According to you

You just said it in your post.

 

[Pokecheque]

They’ve been paying big money for vets since 2014. Just the problem is they’d call them up and get hurt (Ben Street, two years in a row) or they’d be completely ineffective in our offense depressed system (the O’Brien, Whitney, Sislo year). Billington said this summer in the Athletic that his goal is to bring vets in to compete for roster spots on the Avs, which is not the point either. We’ll see how great their plan is this year when we see who has to play in the ECHL or eat nachos.

Yeah, I know they've been bringing in all manner of AHL vets, and it's just never, ever worked out for them (Vogelhuber and Haydar are a couple names that spring to mind). At least this time, I think they made a very savvy pickup in Erik Condra. But yeah, the notion of these guys competing for roster spots makes no sense if you're trying to develop talent.

 

[henchman21]

Yeah, I know they've been bringing in all manner of AHL vets, and it's just never, ever worked out for them (Vogelhuber and Haydar are a couple names that spring to mind). At least this time, I think they made a very savvy pickup in Erik Condra. But yeah, the notion of these guys competing for roster spots makes no sense if you're trying to develop talent.

Agz was great being brought back. Alt is a fantastic captain. That is just last season. It doesn’t always work and they can be better... but it has worked before and will work again. How much is always a question.