Salary Cap: 2019-20 How Can the Leafs Stay Under The Cap?

[JT AM da real deal]

Would we not have been better off to pay him more for a 2 years contract when we had AAV and then taken a team option for a 3rd year

 

[ACC1224]

I'd be just as surprised if he refused any movement due to an NMC in a year where he makes $1.25 but is on the cap for $6.25

He'll get paid whether he moves or not.
His family seems happily entrenched here, tough to see him going anywhere.

 

[Golden_Jet]

probably need to set aside 1 or 2 million for injury call ups.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I don’t think we can absolve shady business here. At the least, AZ circumvented cap by trading for him for the sole purpose of buying him out to carry the cap hit. They gave up hockey assets to artificially hit the cap floor. The league chose not to do anything here, and could very well choose not to do anything again.

That said, one difference is Marleaus NMC. Hard to deny intent when Marleau was ready to waive the NMC, then signs back...

Also hard to prove intent if he sits all summer and comes to camp on a PTO.

If he's bought out in June and you don't offer him a guaranteed contract until September 20th and it's a 1 year 900K deal what does that prove about circumvention?

Without a paper trail there is no penalty. So unless Dubas is the dumbest GM on earth and puts these things in his GM minutes he's forced to keep there's no way it could ever come back on him.

 

[Jack Bauer]

He'll get paid whether he moves or not.
His family seems happily entrenched here, tough to see him going anywhere.

Then he happily waives the NMC to retire on someone elses cap and we give him a job around the team and we're back to there being no issue.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Yes right now we're $4mil or so under the cap which will be used for those bonuses assuming no other money comes in

And we’re at not bonus overage risk next year so Horton doesn’t really affect us. Would be a waste to use an asset to move it.

 

[ACC1224]

Then he happily waives the NMC to retire on someone elses cap and we give him a job around the team and we're back to there being no issue.

I could see that as a possibility if the Leafs win the Cup this year.

 

[Jozay]

Like the contracts Lupul and Robidas were given?

Nobody is going to report on something as hush-hush as a situation like that. Since when does an insider need to report on it for it to be a realistic possibility? It makes more sense then him playing the year for $1.25 million.

Newsflash: This entire forum is all speculation from all of us. But lets do a poll and see who actually thinks we signed Marleau for 3 years with full intentions on seeing out that 3rd year...

Lupul and Robidas arent even close to comparable situations to Marleau. Both Lupul and Robidas were not physically able to play hockey in the NHL. They failed physicals.

An insider reporting on it would be hell of a lot more believable than you speculating about it.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Also hard to prove intent if he sits all summer and comes to camp on a PTO.

If he's bought out in June and you don't offer him a guaranteed contract until September 20th and it's a 1 year 900K deal what does that prove about circumvention?

Without a paper trail there is no penalty. So unless Dubas is the dumbest GM on earth and puts these things in his GM minutes he's forced to keep there's no way it could ever come back on him.

I don’t know what kind of plot you’re unveiling here.

 

[Jack Bauer]

And we’re at not bonus overage risk next year so Horton doesn’t really affect us. Would be a waste to use an asset to move it.

Horton still effects us though because you need to count for that $5.3 until the season starts.

We're getting by thanks to elite players on ELC's right now.

It's a way bigger issue next year because even though there's no overages those bonuses have become full scale salaries for Matthews and Marner.

That waste of an asset could be the difference between having or not having a Jake Gardiner or a replacement for 82 games next season.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I don’t know what kind of plot you’re unveiling here.

No plot. Same situation has happened elsewhere. Some just seem to have a hard time seeing why it could happen here even though it could be beneficial to 3 parties to have it happen.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

And we’re at not bonus overage risk next year so Horton doesn’t really affect us. Would be a waste to use an asset to move it.

but i think what Jack is saying is if we decide to pick up another D man this year and bonuses push into next year then we could really use it ... but i guess the issue is at what player cost?

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Horton still effects us though because you need to count for that $5.3 until the season starts.

We're getting by thanks to elite players on ELC's right now.

It's a way bigger issue next year because even though there's no overages those bonuses have become full scale salaries for Matthews and Marner.

That waste of an asset could be the difference between having or not having a Jake Gardiner or a replacement for 82 games next season.

Teams can use LTIR in the offseason. It was confirmed 1-2 seasons ago and IIRC Leafs used it under Lou.

 

[supsens]

Like the contracts Lupul and Robidas were given?

Nobody is going to report on something as hush-hush as a situation like that. Since when does an insider need to report on it for it to be a realistic possibility? It makes more sense then him playing the year for $1.25 million.

Newsflash: This entire forum is all speculation from all of us. But lets do a poll and see who actually thinks we signed Marleau for 3 years with full intentions on seeing out that 3rd year...

He gets over 4 for his final year not 1.25

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

No plot. Same situation has happened elsewhere. Some just seem to have a hard time seeing why it could happen here even though it could be beneficial to 3 parties to have it happen.

No I literally don’t follow the sequence of events you were outlining.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I thought if he's bought out in June, his cap hit of 6.25 still counts against the cap as he was over 35 when he signed the contract.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

but i think what Jack is saying is if we decide to pick up another D man this year and bonuses push into next year then we could really use it ... but i guess the issue is at what player cost?

That’s not what he was saying.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Lupul and Robidas arent even close to comparable situations to Marleau. Both Lupul and Robidas were not physically able to play hockey in the NHL. They failed physicals.

An insider reporting on it would be hell of a lot more believable than you speculating about it.

Lupul was physically unable? But Marleau can't be?

You realize we're all a trip to a family doctor away from being mentally incapable of working at our current jobs right?

If you're a 40yr old NHL player there's tons of physical reasons why you could be not physically able to play.

I guess Hossa just woke up last summer with an issue he was just fine to play under and that just happened to line up with his salary dropping in his contract.

Marleau is 1 team doctor away from failing a physical at his age.

 

[Jack Bauer]

That’s not what he was saying.

I wasn't saying that but it could happen like that.

It would destroy us next year which is why we won't do it that way

 

[ACC1224]

Lupul was physically unable? But Marleau can't be?

You realize we're all a trip to a family doctor away from being mentally incapable of working at our current jobs right?

If you're a 40yr old NHL player there's tons of physical reasons why you could be not physically able to play.

I guess Hossa just woke up last summer with an issue he was just fine to play under and that just happened to line up with his salary dropping in his contract.

Marleau is 1 team doctor away from failing a physical at his age.

I don't think you're serious with this.
Hasn't he played like 600 plus games straight ?

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

I wasn't saying that but it could happen like that.

It would destroy us next year which is why we won't do it that way

Trade Horton away with a pick to clear up like $2m so we have the pleasure of spending more picks on bottom rate rentals? Nah. That wouldn’t happen.

 

[Jozay]

Lupul was physically unable? But Marleau can't be?

You realize we're all a trip to a family doctor away from being mentally incapable of working at our current jobs right?

If you're a 40yr old NHL player there's tons of physical reasons why you could be not physically able to play.

I guess Hossa just woke up last summer with an issue he was just fine to play under and that just happened to line up with his salary dropping in his contract.

Marleau is 1 team doctor away from failing a physical at his age.

You realize the NHL can investigate and test these guys with their own doctors, right?

They did with Lupul and they did with Hossa.

If something seems a little to convenient (kinda like iron man Marleau getting hurt and not being able to play his 3rd year) the NHL will investigate.

These guys just cant fake being injured.

https://www.tsn.ca/report-hossa-cleared-for-ltir-1.874102

NHL orders independent medical exam on Leafs' Lupul: report | CBC Sports

 

[Jack Bauer]

No I literally don’t follow the sequence of events you were outlining.

Just like Orpik last year. Was beneficial to him, Washington, and Colorado. So they made it work.

So what Marleau needs to play for Toronto next year is a lower cap hit. He only gets that if he's bought out by someone else. So if Toronto wants that they flip something to a team looking to hit the cap floor via the buyout and re-sign him towards the end of the summer.

And if he doesn't want to play here he'll just waive the NMC to retire the cap hit on someone elses books.

I can see Babcock wanting him around as a cheap depth forward and can see him wanting to play here but only if the team isn't held back by cap hits like his current one so I can see the possibility for both sides to want to do something that gives them the option for next year that the current deal just doesn't unless we want to lose an impact player to carry his 3rd year.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Like I said earlier I really don't get the whole thing. But we have to rely on Dubie to know what works and what does not work on the CAP. I for one would like another defensive d man to help out in the playoffs. You can never have enough and injuries happen.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Just like Orpik last year. Was beneficial to him, Washington, and Colorado. So they made it work.

So what Marleau needs to play for Toronto next year is a lower cap hit. He only gets that if he's bought out by someone else. So if Toronto wants that they flip something to a team looking to hit the cap floor via the buyout and re-sign him towards the end of the summer.

And if he doesn't want to play here he'll just waive the NMC to retire the cap hit on someone elses books.

I can see Babcock wanting him around as a cheap depth forward and can see him wanting to play here but only if the team isn't held back by cap hits like his current one so I can see the possibility for both sides to want to do something that gives them the option for next year that the current deal just doesn't unless we want to lose an impact player to carry his 3rd year.

I guess I didn’t follow because it’s the same scenario I mentioned where it wouldn’t really work on “intent” because Marleau would need to waive.