2019-20 Colorado Eagles (AHL) and Utah Grizzlies (ECHL)

[MarkT]

I don't think he got a fair shake last year, but this year he's done nothing to deserve it. If he was playing well, he would've had his chance considering we've iced Tynan, Megna, Dries, and O'Connor at some point. I'm sure there will be some interest come summer as a free agent, but he's a dime a dozen player at this point of his career.

He's still an RFA this summer, so unless the Avs decide to not sign him, he won't be a free agent.

 

[tigervixxxen]

He’s been the same player for a few years now. He just had a 4 point night and dragged the Eagles to a win over the weekend if anyone was looking for the merit excuse. His value as a prospect ended when he was waived. The prospect swap should have come at last deadline or sooner. There was no need to just straight dump him for a AHL vet or something of that nature because yes he does help the Eagles win at least. We’ve been down that road a million times but there’s no reason why over the last four years Greer shouldn’t have been more of a call up staple. This was long before the arrest and suspension. The writing was on the wall in his first couple of years pro. And really I think Bednar’s issue with Greer this whole time has been his defense more than anything. I just think unless they throw him into a pre-draft deal he’s just going to go non-qualified and it’s best for both parties to do so. Other than Bowers, Kaut, Timmins, Werner and to an extent LOC everyone else is completely irrelevant is why they don’t get talked about.

 

[Pokecheque]

He’s been the same player for a few years now. He just had a 4 point night and dragged the Eagles to a win over the weekend if anyone was looking for the merit excuse. His value as a prospect ended when he was waived. The prospect swap should have come at last deadline or sooner. There was no need to just straight dump him for a AHL vet or something of that nature because yes he does help the Eagles win at least. We’ve been down that road a million times but there’s no reason why over the last four years Greer shouldn’t have been more of a call up staple. This was long before the arrest and suspension. The writing was on the wall in his first couple of years pro. And really I think Bednar’s issue with Greer this whole time has been his defense more than anything. I just think unless they throw him into a pre-draft deal he’s just going to go non-qualified and it’s best for both parties to do so. Other than Bowers, Kaut, Timmins, Werner and to an extent LOC everyone else is completely irrelevant is why they don’t get talked about.

Him going unqualified is what I figure will happen. I don't really see a deal happening in the offseason.

 

[henchman21]

The defense has a part in it, but that isn't what I'd say is the main part. Greer simply takes too many damn penalties. During 17-18 and 18-19 Greer played 32 games with the Avs. During that time he averaged 4.37 penalties per 60 minutes. With no filter, that is 14th worst in the NHL during that span. If you make that filter 50 minutes... it is 4th worst in the NHL during those two seasons and none of the players above him played more. If you make that just 18-19... Greer takes the most penalties per 60 in the league. You simply can't have a 4th liner in today's NHL that does that. Their job is to grind, play solid defense, don't do anything stupid, and protect players when needed. Greer's defense is already an issue, but add in him being counted on to do something stupid and cause the team to go on the PK just killed any chance he had with Bednar. No NHL coach will stand for a 4th liner that takes a bunch of dumb penalties.

To put into context how bad Greer's numbers are... in 18-19 minors per 60 was 4.47. Brett Richie was the highest regular NHL player at 1.89 and he was followed by Roussel at 1.88. NHL coaches are driven nuts by numbers approaching 2... you get over that you get in the doghouse... you double it... you'll never see the NHL. As long as Greer does that, he'll never sniff a full time job. If he cleaned it up, I think he can be a 4th liner somewhere still.

 

[tigervixxxen]

A lot of those penalties were matching minors or fighting majors. And one 10 minute misconduct which accounts for over 20% of his NHL total PIMs. But it doesn’t matter anymore.

 

[henchman21]

A lot of those penalties were matching minors or fighting majors. But it doesn’t matter anymore.

Greer has had 1 major and 1 misconduct in his NHL career. The one fight happened against Buff in 2017, and the matching minors did impact 17-18 where he had 3 (though one he still earned an extra minor on... scuffle against PEB). Which has nothing to do with the 2018-19 number where it was worse. One of the minors in 18-19 was matching. So 3 where it was negated out of his 14 total in those two seasons. He put the team down on the PK 11 times in 32 games and a little over 200 minutes. That is a horrific amount of penalties.

As a comparison... Z and Kadri take a lot of penalties. They have taken 21 and 25 minors this season respectively. They have played 1033 and 888 minutes this season.

 

[Pokecheque]

A lot of those penalties were matching minors or fighting majors. And one 10 minute misconduct which accounts for over 20% of his NHL total PIMs. But it doesn’t matter anymore.

Greer has had 1 major and 1 misconduct in his NHL career. The one fight happened against Buff in 2017, and the matching minors did impact 17-18 where he had 3 (though one he still earned an extra minor on... scuffle against PEB). Which has nothing to do with the 2018-19 number where it was worse. One of the minors in 18-19 was matching. So 3 where it was negated out of his 14 total in those two seasons. He put the team down on the PK 11 times in 32 games and a little over 200 minutes. That is a horrific amount of penalties.

As a comparison... Z and Kadri take a lot of penalties. They have taken 21 and 25 minors this season respectively. They have played 1033 and 888 minutes this season.

Pests/agitators/goons usually know when and when not to engage, Greer never really picked up on that. The refs will usually let a certain amount of extracurriculars go in front of the net after a whistle, but I remember not that long ago that Greer gave a good shove/jab to a guy's face well after the whistle blew and got the only penalty. And I'm pretty sure Bednar wasn't pleased about that.

Either way, Greer just...isn't really good enough for the NHL. The ship has sailed. I slagged Bednar and the Avs mercilessly for how they handled him, but in hindsight I don't think this was some missed opportunity. I hope Anthony-John carves out a respectable career in the NHL but I see him as a guy who will likely be a career AHLer or star in Europe.

 

[MarkT]

Pests/agitators/goons usually know when and when not to engage, Greer never really picked up on that. The refs will usually let a certain amount of extracurriculars go in front of the net after a whistle, but I remember not that long ago that Greer gave a good shove/jab to a guy's face well after the whistle blew and got the only penalty. And I'm pretty sure Bednar wasn't pleased about that.

Either way, Greer just...isn't really good enough for the NHL. The ship has sailed. I slagged Bednar and the Avs mercilessly for how they handled him, but in hindsight I don't think this was some missed opportunity. I hope Anthony-John carves out a respectable career in the NHL but I see him as a guy who will likely be a career AHLer or star in Europe.

Greer is the guy that taught me how Bednar works. If he can't trust you to control yourself and/or play well defensively, and you don't score enough to compensate for that, you're not going to play for him. It's why he barely plays call-ups, but is willing to give the benefit of the doubt to guys with NHL experience. With call-ups, he doesn't know if they can be trusted defensively, but with NHL guys he can just watch tape of them and see for himself.

 

[Pokecheque]

Greer is the guy that taught me how Bednar works. If he can't trust you to control yourself and/or play well defensively, and you don't score enough to compensate for that, you're not going to play for him. It's why he barely plays call-ups, but is willing to give the benefit of the doubt to guys with NHL experience. With call-ups, he doesn't know if they can be trusted defensively, but with NHL guys he can just watch tape of them and see for himself.

It depends on how quickly they adapt. He sheltered Kaut pretty heavily in the beginning, but has gradually increased his ice time/role, even had him out there in the final minute or so last night. It makes sense that you'd indoctrinate them slowly, while not just giving a player goon minutes.

Greer just kept taking stupid penalties (which, incidentally, the Avs have cut down on that by a substantial margin, they are currently 16th with 532 PIM, last season they were 4th with 772), and I think the one that Bednar really took exception to was when he went after Blake Wheeler two years ago. It was just a dumb time to try and pick a fight.

In the end, penalties or not, I just don't think Greer is really good enough for the NHL, at least not much more than a Cody McLeod-type. But at the AHL level, he's a star.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Greer is the guy that taught me how Bednar works. If he can't trust you to control yourself and/or play well defensively, and you don't score enough to compensate for that, you're not going to play for him. It's why he barely plays call-ups, but is willing to give the benefit of the doubt to guys with NHL experience. With call-ups, he doesn't know if they can be trusted defensively, but with NHL guys he can just watch tape of them and see for himself.

This is the same for almost all coaches but Bednar has gotten good in that he will recognize improvements and players can reasonably gain his trust. Good talent evaluation

 

[Freudian]

Some players just don't work out when they get a chance. They take bad penalties and the coach limits their ice time. They get nervous and start to make even more mistakes, alternatively become so afraid to make mistakes they become so passive they contribute nothing.

We've seen it with Galiardi, Bigras, Hishon, Greer. When it happens it's better for everyone to move on. When you have the talent level of a borderline NHLer you need to play at your best to stick.

 

[MarkT]

This is the same for almost all coaches but Bednar has gotten good in that he will recognize improvements and players can reasonably gain his trust. Good talent evaluation

It's one of his best traits for sure. I don't think I can remember a time that he unfairly kept a player's ice time down over a long period of time. I've seen him maybe give guys ice time they didn't deserve, but I interpret that as him testing them rather than rewarding them.

 

[flyfysher]

Some players just don't work out when they get a chance. They take bad penalties and the coach limits their ice time. They get nervous and start to make even more mistakes, alternatively become so afraid to make mistakes they become so passive they contribute nothing.

We've seen it with Galiardi, Bigras, Hishon, Greer. When it happens it's better for everyone to move on. When you have the talent level of a borderline NHLer you need to play at your best to stick.

Kamenev sure didn't help himself on Girgenson's goal. But Kaut stepped up in last night's game. Funny what happens when one is given an opportunity.

 

[Pokecheque]

Some players just don't work out when they get a chance. They take bad penalties and the coach limits their ice time. They get nervous and start to make even more mistakes, alternatively become so afraid to make mistakes they become so passive they contribute nothing.

We've seen it with Galiardi, Bigras, Hishon, Greer. When it happens it's better for everyone to move on. When you have the talent level of a borderline NHLer you need to play at your best to stick.

Not sure I'd lump all those players together. Galiardi, Bigras, and Hishon were all done in by injuries. It's a tad different with Bigras because, as I understand it, he got pretty seriously banged up and came back a perimeter player. But the other two guys were flat-out ruined.

But I agree, Greer just needs to move on. That just wasn't great use of a 2nd rounder. And yes, tired as the narrative may be, this one is on Roy.

 

[Avs9296]

How's Conor Timmins been playing lately? Does he look ready for a callup of there was an injury on defence?

 

[Pokecheque]

Boy has Hunter Miska turned into one hell of a pickup.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

Lol yhea... not turning into Joe's best trade...

 

[Pokecheque]

How's Conor Timmins been playing lately? Does he look ready for a callup of there was an injury on defence?

I can't speak to how his play has been but he has 24 points in 36 games while playing a heavy defensive role, that has to count for something.

But I also think they really want to wait on calling him up unless absolutely necessary and I'm fine with that. Dude has a grand total of 38 games of professional hockey experience after missing a full year, and also dealt with a fairly serious injury already that had him miss another six weeks. It's just not time yet. The fact they called up Connauton kinda makes me think we will not see him at all this season, but next year, I think they'll have a very hard time keeping him off the opening night roster. Hell, he was so good out of camp they kept him up for two games to start this season.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I can't speak to how his play has been but he has 24 points in 36 games while playing a heavy defensive role, that has to count for something.

But I also think they really want to wait on calling him up unless absolutely necessary and I'm fine with that. Dude has a grand total of 38 games of professional hockey experience after missing a full year, and also dealt with a fairly serious injury already that had him miss another six weeks. It's just not time yet. The fact they called up Connauton kinda makes me think we will not see him at all this season, but next year, I think they'll have a very hard time keeping him off the opening night roster. Hell, he was so good out of camp they kept him up for two games to start this season.

I just have a real hard time wrapping my head around both him and Byram being on the roster with no previous experience.

 

[Pokecheque]

MHH article on Greg Cronin.

‘Honesty, integrity, trust and tough love’: How Colorado Eagles coach Greg Cronin develops NHL talent

I'll admit I really wasn't that high on this hiring, but so far he's proven to be exactly the right guy for the job.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

MHH article on Greg Cronin.

‘Honesty, integrity, trust and tough love’: How Colorado Eagles coach Greg Cronin develops NHL talent

I'll admit I really wasn't that high on this hiring, but so far he's proven to be exactly the right guy for the job.

Wasn't that guy part of REO Speedwagon?

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Wasn't that guy part of REO Speedwagon?

That's Kevin not Greg.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

That's Kevin not Greg.

Same difference

 

[Pokecheque]

Wasn't that guy part of REO Speedwagon?

Totally.

 

[Metallo]

Miska has taken over the Eagles net. He’s starting his 2nd game in this b2b.