2019-20 Colorado Eagles (AHL) and Utah Grizzlies (ECHL)

[Matt Roberts]

I just think they should look for a top 4 D though, not another 6/7.

What do you do with Timmins and Byram then? If you add another top 4 option, you almost have to move one of the kids, as they're going to be blocked. Joe is balancing a fine line between the future and present with that defensive core.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I don’t know why I thought everyone praised Timmins skating. I’ve been quietly sitting under a rock for years being kind of timid and weary about how I feel about Timmins as a prospect because I felt everyone dramatically overrated his skating ability while that thought apparently never existed at all lol.

 

[henchman21]

Timmins will never be a great skater (or even good), but it will never be bad enough to hold him back. At his size he gets a bit more leeway and his game is based on IQ more than skating (he creates space with reads and hands). That said, the improvement he has had from this -2 to -1 to draft year and since has been substantial. In his -1 year, you'd have written him completely off as a guy who would never be able to skate well enough. His draft year it started pushing to NHL quality if low end and awkward. Right now it is still awkward, but it isn't going to hold back his game in the NHL.

 

[cgf]

Timmins will never be a great skater (or even good), but it will never be bad enough to hold him back. At his size he gets a bit more leeway and his game is based on IQ more than skating (he creates space with reads and hands). That said, the improvement he has had from this -2 to -1 to draft year and since has been substantial. In his -1 year, you'd have written him completely off as a guy who would never be able to skate well enough. His draft year it started pushing to NHL quality if low end and awkward. Right now it is still awkward, but it isn't going to hold back his game in the NHL.

...we hope...

 

[Foppa Frossa]

Eagles + MacKinnon and Landy are now 2 points behind 2nd in the NHL. Not bad.

 

[henchman21]

...we hope...

I feel pretty confident in that assessment. His decision making and reads will be the important thing to translate. He makes some really risky reads and plays where he needs to do that at a consistently high level in the NHL to be effective. If he doesn't, he'll be a defensemen who can't skate well, defends okay, and doesn't add offense... which is a recipe for busting.

 

[CobraAcesS]

What do you do with Timmins and Byram then? If you add another top 4 option, you almost have to move one of the kids, as they're going to be blocked. Joe is balancing a fine line between the future and present with that defensive core.

Depends.. If they trade for someone that has a year or two left it gives them time to not rush either into a consistent top four role.

I doubt they pull off a big acquisition for a younger long term solution.

If they go to UFA it will be depth guys.

 

[Matt Roberts]

Depends.. If they trade for someone that has a year or two left it gives them time to not rush either into a consistent top four role.

I doubt they pull off a big acquisition for a younger long term solution.

If they go to UFA it will be depth guys.

It's not even a top 4 spot I'm concerned with, it's just getting them on the ice. They seem very loyal to EJ and Makar, Girard and the new acquisition are going to get their top 4 time. Any playing time for Byram or Timmins would have to come at the expense of Graves or Cole, which seems fairly unlikely as we look at things today. Unless they move Graves in said deal, which be OK by me.

 

[CobraAcesS]

It's not even a top 4 spot I'm concerned with, it's just getting them on the ice. They seem very loyal to EJ and Makar, Girard and the new acquisition are going to get their top 4 time. Any playing time for Byram or Timmins would have to come at the expense of Graves or Cole, which seems fairly unlikely as we look at things today. Unless they move Graves in said deal, which be OK by me.

Makar, Girard, Graves, EJ, Cole

That's five, move Cole and Z. Then you've got a spot for new guy and one bottom pairing slot for a rookie. As long as its shorter term Timmins or Byram in the AHL is fine.

Graves - Makar
Girard - FNG
Byram - EJ

They'll probably just move Z and add a depth D they like better than Barbs tho.

Graves - Makar
Girard - EJ
Byram/Timmins - Cole

If they'd give Timmins a run this year I'd be a lot more comfortable with the second option..

 

[Pokecheque]

It's not even a top 4 spot I'm concerned with, it's just getting them on the ice. They seem very loyal to EJ and Makar, Girard and the new acquisition are going to get their top 4 time. Any playing time for Byram or Timmins would have to come at the expense of Graves or Cole, which seems fairly unlikely as we look at things today. Unless they move Graves in said deal, which be OK by me.

Bednar has never been terribly hesitant to limit ice time or outright bench vets, even EJ has seen his ice time cut down severely when he struggles. Conversely, he doesn't really mind putting rookies out there for big minutes.

Graves is not someone you should be moving, because he's the perfect type of transition guy. In an ideal situation he's a third pairing defender, but has proven he can play up higher in the lineup out of necessity. He's not blocking anyone, but he's also not so bad that he's going to rush the kids to take his place. They can go at their own pace and when they're ready for the big role, they're ready.

I think another depth guy would be ideal here, I don't think it HAS to be a top-four option. That said, I don't think the gap between each pairing is that distinct. It's not the end of the world if Conor Timmins and/or Bowen Byram remain third pairing guys in their rookie seasons.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Bednar has never been terribly hesitant to limit ice time or outright bench vets, even EJ has seen his ice time cut down severely when he struggles. Conversely, he doesn't really mind putting rookies out there for big minutes.

Graves is not someone you should be moving, because he's the perfect type of transition guy. In an ideal situation he's a third pairing defender, but has proven he can play up higher in the lineup out of necessity. He's not blocking anyone, but he's also not so bad that he's going to rush the kids to take his place. They can go at their own pace and when they're ready for the big role, they're ready.

I think another depth guy would be ideal here, I don't think it HAS to be a top-four option. That said, I don't think the gap between each pairing is that distinct. It's not the end of the world if Conor Timmins and/or Bowen Byram remain third pairing guys in their rookie seasons.

I just think you run the risk of having to play EJ or Cole too much again. Due to injuries, or rookie struggles.

 

[henchman21]

Graves is simply keeping Byram's seat warm. I think Graves will start next year next to Makar, but there is a good chance that Byram has it by the end of next season. At latest 21-22. On the right side EJ and Makar likely have those spots wrapped up. Cole is the 3rd pairing guy there next season unless Timmins kicks him out of the lineup. I imagine the Avs will bring in a 6/7 level RD to be depth and with the ability to step into the bottom pairing on the right side and PK (Cole could slide back to the left if injuries hit there). Not a guy that costs a ton though as the Avs may carry 8 if Timmins can push his way onto the team. A guy like Rutta.

 

[McMetal]

If only we could get Nemeth back somehow. He's actually done pretty well in Detroit despite the utter dumpster fire their season has been as a whole. I'd welcome him back as a 4/5 stopgap who can slide down the lineup to make room for the rookies.

 

[Pokecheque]

I just think you run the risk of having to play EJ or Cole too much again. Due to injuries, or rookie struggles.

There's also a bit of a concern that Graves could regress pretty hard, though some of his underlying numbers are better than you might think (some of that may have to do with playing alongside Cale Makar though). Your concerns are warranted.

That said, I think there are plenty of vet options available. Obviously some of these guys will be signed but a majority won't be.

Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

My personal preference: I've mentioned his name before but talk to Buffalo about trading for Colin Miller before they fire Botterill. That IMO was a pretty savvy pickup and CLEARLY gave them the flexibility they needed to move Ristolainen, but then they just...didn't. Meanwhile, Miller's numbers in Buggalo have been less-than-impressive since leaving Vegas. He's probably just not a good fit there, or they just couldn't figure out how to utilize him since they still had Ristolainen and Montour and Jokiharju in the mix. Either way, he's still fairly young, has plenty of skill, is a right-handed shot, and is signed for decent money. Take advantage of a bad situation in Buffalo and see if you can get him the hell outta there.

And in case anyone is curious, no, hell to the no, I do not want Ristolainen. If you're gonna do that, just sign Zadorov for cheaper.

I might get castigated for this, but whatever: I would not be crazy about it, but I could see Joe throwing a low pick to Detroit to get Nemeth back. He knows the system, the coaches, and a lot of the players, can play up and down the lineup if need be, still not yet 30, and isn't signed to a crippling contract. And not to mention a guy who's big and doesn't mind playing a physical game.

 

[CobraAcesS]

There's also a bit of a concern that Graves could regress pretty hard, though some of his underlying numbers are better than you might think (some of that may have to do with playing alongside Cale Makar though). Your concerns are warranted.

That said, I think there are plenty of vet options available. Obviously some of these guys will be signed but a majority won't be.

Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

My personal preference: I've mentioned his name before but talk to Buffalo about trading for Colin Miller before they fire Botterill. That IMO was a pretty savvy pickup and CLEARLY gave them the flexibility they needed to move Ristolainen, but then they just...didn't. Meanwhile, Miller's numbers in Buggalo have been less-than-impressive since leaving Vegas. He's probably just not a good fit there, or they just couldn't figure out how to utilize him since they still had Ristolainen and Montour and Jokiharju in the mix. Either way, he's still fairly young, has plenty of skill, is a right-handed shot, and is signed for decent money. Take advantage of a bad situation in Buffalo and see if you can get him the hell outta there.

And in case anyone is curious, no, hell to the no, I do not want Ristolainen. If you're gonna do that, just sign Zadorov for cheaper.

I might get castigated for this, but whatever: I would not be crazy about it, but I could see Joe throwing a low pick to Detroit to get Nemeth back. He knows the system, the coaches, and a lot of the players, can play up and down the lineup if need be, still not yet 30, and isn't signed to a crippling contract. And not to mention a guy who's big and doesn't mind playing a physical game.

I just want someone good enough to play with Girard. I've seen you mention Miller. I'd be down for that.

Miller, or if they are willing to pay a little more for Petry.

If Nemeth was planned as your #7 I'd be down. Might even be able to play the Graves role next to Girard in a pinch.

I wonder if they try to bring back Cotton for that role though. Especially if he stays competent down the stretch here.

 

[Matt Roberts]

Bednar has never been terribly hesitant to limit ice time or outright bench vets, even EJ has seen his ice time cut down severely when he struggles. Conversely, he doesn't really mind putting rookies out there for big minutes.

Graves is not someone you should be moving, because he's the perfect type of transition guy. In an ideal situation he's a third pairing defender, but has proven he can play up higher in the lineup out of necessity. He's not blocking anyone, but he's also not so bad that he's going to rush the kids to take his place. They can go at their own pace and when they're ready for the big role, they're ready.

I think another depth guy would be ideal here, I don't think it HAS to be a top-four option. That said, I don't think the gap between each pairing is that distinct. It's not the end of the world if Conor Timmins and/or Bowen Byram remain third pairing guys in their rookie seasons.

Again, I'm not pushing for them to fill a top 4 role as rookies. That defense is already young enough with Makar and Girard. My concern is more that, if a top 4 option is added, then you've got three spots locked down in 2020-21 with a 5 man competition between Byram, Timmins, Cole, EJ and Graves for 3 spots. In that scenario, either the young players sit or you have a ton of salary tied up in 7th/8th dmen. If Cole or Graves is moved this off-season, that makes a lot more sense. If they both return, adding another top 4 option really seems to muddy the waters.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Again, I'm not pushing for them to fill a top 4 role as rookies. That defense is already young enough with Makar and Girard. My concern is more that, if a top 4 option is added, then you've got three spots locked down in 2020-21 with a 5 man competition between Byram, Timmins, Cole, EJ and Graves for 3 spots. In that scenario, either the young players sit or you have a ton of salary tied up in 7th/8th dmen. If Cole or Graves is moved this off-season, that makes a lot more sense. If they both return, adding another top 4 option really seems to muddy the waters.

Yeah I know, I did say they should try and move Cole. It would probably be easy if we can retain some too.

I don't think it would be the end of the world for Byram and Timmins to be in the AHL if they can't beat out one of those three though.

We know damn well there will be injuries and chances lol.

 

[Matt Roberts]

Yeah I know, I did say they should try and move Cole. It would probably be easy if we can retain some too.

I don't think it would be the end of the world for Byram and Timmins to be in the AHL if they can't beat out one of those three though.

We know damn well there will be injuries and chances lol.

Yeah, I agree that makes a lot of sense if Cole is moved. In that scenario, there's absolutely no need to rush Byram or Timmins, but opportunity for them if they earn it, and quality depth if needed. That's probably the best case scenario for next year.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Yeah, I agree that makes a lot of sense if Cole is moved. In that scenario, there's absolutely no need to rush Byram or Timmins, but opportunity for them if they earn it, and quality depth if needed. That's probably the best case scenario for next year.

It's a lot of movement, but go get Nemeth back cheap, move Cole and Z, try and get Petry. That leaves one spot open and a #7 you trust if one of the rookies isn't ready.

Graves - Makar
Girard - Petry
Byram/Tim - EJ
Nemeth or someone else who can be a regular for long stretches and not hurt you that's also on a short contract.

 

[S E P H]

I argue that Timmins skating looks more sloppy than it is when it comes to productivity. If you buy in the fact that Newhook looks like an amazing skater, but isn't truly super fast, than Timmins is the opposite in regards to being really sloppy, but can get around without a significant problem. A much bigger issue for me that faces Timmins is that he's gotten rocked by at least four to five dangerous hits thus far on his career. Him getting into a bad spot and having his head down is why he has had concussion problems. Now I think the hit that destroyed his season last year was an f***ing cheapshot, but almost everything else has been a clean open ice hit that got him with his head down. He got almost disintegrated in a hit at the - I think - the last Burgundy/White game.

 

[Patagonia]

I argue that Timmins skating looks more sloppy than it is when it comes to productivity. If you buy in the fact that Newhook looks like an amazing skater, but isn't truly super fast, than Timmins is the opposite in regards to being really sloppy, but can get around without a significant problem. A much bigger issue for me that faces Timmins is that he's gotten rocked by at least four to five dangerous hits thus far on his career. Him getting into a bad spot and having his head down is why he has had concussion problems. Now I think the hit that destroyed his season last year was an f***ing cheapshot, but almost everything else has been a clean open ice hit that got him with his head down. He got almost disintegrated in a hit at the - I think - the last Burgundy/White game.

Timmins is a very smart player, but with a history of concussions shouldn’t Sakic consider moving him? He had a fairly good AHL season and expected to solidify the Top 4 with Makar, Girard and Byram for the rest of the decade.

 

[Pokecheque]

Timmins is a very smart player, but with a history of concussions shouldn’t Sakic consider moving him? He had a fairly good AHL season and expected to solidify the Top 4 with Makar, Girard and Byram for the rest of the decade.

To be fair, dude's had one concussion. It just took a REALLY long time to recover from it.

But the injury history has to be a tad concerning. At this point I won't be completely shocked if they move him, but right now if you move him you're selling low. It's probably better to put him in the NHL, and he either plays himself into a role or ups his trade value.

 

[AvsCOL]

What are the chances Bowen Byram signs an ATO with the Eagles and plays in the playoffs, a la Werenski. I realize that CHL players need to be turning 20 to play in the AHL, but it also says that it's either 20 years old, OR 4 years CHL experience. Byram played 11 games in his first season, but this would technically be his 4th...

Is anyone familiar with the ATO rules?

 

[henchman21]

What are the chances Bowen Byram signs an ATO with the Eagles and plays in the playoffs, a la Werenski. I realize that CHL players need to be turning 20 to play in the AHL, but it also says that it's either 20 years old, OR 4 years CHL experience. Byram played 11 games in his first season, but this would technically be his 4th...

Is anyone familiar with the ATO rules?

Zero because he doesn't need an ATO to do that.

IMO Byram is more likely to be NHL depth for a playoff run than he is in the AHL.

 

[AvsCOL]

Zero because he doesn't need an ATO to do that.

IMO Byram is more likely to be NHL depth for a playoff run than he is in the AHL.

I'd be shocked if he played in the NHL playoffs. Doesn't make much sense.