2018 NHL Entry Draft Thread (Less then 24 Hours Edition)

[DramaticGloveSave]

Dellandrea or O'Brien? And why?

That's a tough call, but I think Dellandrea. He just is a safer bet.

 

[Runner77]

That's a tough call, but I think Dellandrea. He just is a safer bet.

If we land another first rounder, who knows, all depending on where it is. We may have a shot of both, if O'Brien falls.

 

[Lebowski]

What I think is happening is that Zadina excelled in a league people are familiar with, while Kotkaniemi was good in a league they're unfamiliar with. There's just no frame of reference. It's easy to see 44 goals and think Nathan MacKinnon, and easy to forget Timo Meier. Whereas the only frame of reference they have for 30 points in Liiga is Artturi Lehkonen.

Zadina was only an example among many other possibilities. Also because he's the closest thing to the consensus 3rd best player in most rankings.

You can change Zadina to Hughes, Dobson, Boqvist or whatever, it's beside the point. All I'm saying is don't pick Kotkaniemi at 3 if you feel there's better players on the board.

 

[Lebowski]

A top end ES goal scorer who plays 2 ways and kills penalties is definitely elite.

I really don't see the need to enter another debate around semantics and subjective definitions.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Said it before, but I would trade McCarron for late round picks. Ideally Detroit's 2 6ths.

He may be a bust in the end but that’s not worth it.

Might as well try with him

 

[The Great Weal]

He may be a bust in the end but that’s not worth it.

Might as well try with him

Why? Even if he does a complete 180, he will still be a 4th liner. We already have a plethora of those. We can also sign someone to replace him.

 

[Want My Dach x 77]

How much “higher ceiling” does Zadina actually have over Kotkaniemi when looking at both prospects

Jesperi vs Filip

SKATING - ZADINA is not the most explosive skater but has good edge work and agility to work himself into the high scoring percentage areas , not a player that will generate to much speed
through the neutral zone north south but more shifty west east that could change with devolepment also KOTKANIEMI - skating has been an inconsistency with Jesperi’s game so far , at times he can show great mobility and a quick first step, good edge work but has a bit of an awkward stride that some people may think is a flaw while i still think he’s a more than adequate skater while being 6’2 , skilled elite lanky players at a young age that had a wonky stride , Kopitar Malkin Staal etc... Zadina should be alot quicker for his size and could be a problem if he doesn’t develop some more speed ecpecially at the NHL level in my opinion the difference between him being a 25-30 goals 30 assists guy or a 35-40 goals 30 assists guy


SHOT/GOALSCORING - ZADINA in my opinion has the better goalscorers ability to find the back of the net with his quick accurate release and ability to find the open spaces in the the tight areas of the ice to score the kid just finds himself in the right areas to score I think that will be even harder for him to Translate that to the nhl level and will have to find other ways to score , but to me KOTKANIEMI does everything else’s better to score real nhl goals he can score from anywhere has a dangerous shot but can score goals infront of the net great hand eye for tip ins , to me could easily translate to a 25-30 goalscorer When he matures


HOCKEY SENSE /PUCK HANDLING - both players have great puckhandling skills ZADINA uses his is puckhandling to get into the high scoring areas of the ice and has shown to be a decent playmaker when defenders play the shot KOTKANIEMI - has high hockey iq at all faucets of the game uses his frame and puck handling skills to his advantage “world class” vision Jesperi is the better playmaker of the two also has a nose for net ZADINA uses his puckhandling for his goal scoring where as KOTKANIEMI uses his puckhandling skills combining his size to be more of a all around threat

STRENGTH - Jesperi is 6’2 clearly stronger along the boards and plays a more heavy game its not even close imo
DEFENSIVE AWARENESS - both players display good work ethic away from the puck both are 200 foot players Kotkaniemi killed penalty’s this year and is the centreman very hard to find elite offensive C with a well rounded defensive work ethic aswell



NHL potential
Zadina = 25-35 goals 30 assists winger with an above average defensive game

Kotkaniemi 25-30 goals -35-45 assists centre that’s a playmaker with strong hockey sense, a good compete level, a quick shot, and a nose for the net.

To me I think Zadina will be very good player but not even close to what a top 3 pick should be , I’m concerned about his skating and how his goalscoring will Translate the nhl level

kotkaniemi is very underrated if he was in the chl this year he would’ve been a lock top 5 pick IMO also is one of the youngest players at the draft just like if Zadina was playing over in Czech he would be not as high on many peoples List


If we pick Zadina and in 5 years both players are 60-70 point players we made the wrong pick because one is a C and that is something we simply cannot pass up on , I would try to trade with either Arizona #5 or Vancouver #7 gain some extra assets and draft jesperi . I don’t think Detroit picks him at 6 as they need defence prospects badly. Now if we can’t tango with any teams i wouldn’t hesitate taking jesperi at #3 I just think it would be nice to get a few more assets

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

If we land another first rounder, who knows, all depending on where it is. We may have a shot of both, if O'Brien falls.

Both would be amazing. Zadina and then those 2 would be a dream come true.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

How much “higher ceiling” does Zadina actually have over Kotkaniemi when looking at both prospects
Jesperi vs Filip
SKATING - ZADINA is not the most explosive skater but has good edge work and agility to work himself into the high scoring percentage areas , not a player that will generate to much speed
through the neutral zone north south but more shifty west east that could change with devolepment also KOTKANIEMI - skating has been an inconsistency with Jesperi’s game so far , at times he can show great mobility and a quick first step, good edge work but has a bit of an awkward stride that some people may think is a flaw while i still think he’s a more than adequate skater while being 6’2 , skilled elite lanky players at a young age that had a wonky stride , Kopitar Malkin Staal etc... Zadina should be alot quicker for his size and could be a problem if he doesn’t develop some more speed ecpecially at the NHL level in my opinion the difference between him being a 25-30 goals 30 assists guy or a 35-40 goals 30 assists guy

SHOT/GOALSCORING - ZADINA in my opinion has the better goalscorers ability to find the back of the net with his quick accurate release and ability to find the open spaces in the the tight areas of the ice to score the kid just finds himself in the right areas to score I think that will be even harder for him to Translate that to the nhl level and will have to find other ways to score , but to me KOTKANIEMI does everything else’s better to score real nhl goals he can score from anywhere has a dangerous shot but can score goals infront of the net great hand eye for tip ins , to me could easily translate to a 25-30 goalscorer When he matures
HOCKEY SENSE /PUCK HANDLING - both players have great puckhandling skills ZADINA uses his is puckhandling to get into the high scoring areas of the ice and has shown to be a decent playmaker when defenders play the shot KOTKANIEMI - has high hockey iq at all faucets of the game uses his frame and puck handling skills to his advantage “world class” vision Jesperi is the better playmaker of the two also has a nose for net ZADINA uses his puckhandling for his goal scoring where as KOTKANIEMI uses his puckhandling skills combining his size to be more of a all around threat

STRENGTH - Jesperi is 6’2 clearly stronger along the boards and plays a more heavy game its not even close imo
DEFENSIVE AWARENESS - both players display good work ethic away from the puck both are 200 foot players Kotkaniemi killed penalty’s this year and is the centreman very hard to find elite offensive C with a well rounded defensive work ethic aswell



NHL potential
Zadina = 25-35 goals 30 assists winger with an above average defensive game

Kotkaniemi 25-30 goals -35-45 assists centre that’s a playmaker with strong hockey sense, a good compete level, a quick shot, and a nose for the net.

To me I think Zadina will be very good player but not even close to what a top 3 pick should be , I’m concerned about his skating and how his goalscoring will Translate the nhl level

kotkaniemi is very underrated if he was in the chl this year he would’ve been a lock top 5 pick IMO also is one of the youngest players at the draft just like if Zadina was playing over in Czech he would be not as high on many peoples List


If we pick Zadina and in 5 years both players are 60-70 point players we made the wrong pick because one is a C and that is something we simply cannot pass up on , I would try to trade with either Arizona #5 or Vancouver #7 gain some extra assets and draft jesperi . I don’t think Detroit picks him at 6 as they need defence prospects badly. Now if we can’t tango with any teams i wouldn’t hesitate taking jesperi at #3 I just think it would be nice to get a few more assets

The guy is such a well rounded goal scorer, that shouldn't be a concern at all. He can score sexy goals, he can beat goalies cleanly with his shot, and he goes to the net to score ugly. He's going to score in the NHL, and he's going to score alot.

 

[Habs Icing]

T

You have high standards then. I mean, hes produced at a similar clip to Tarasenko, Marchand, Toews, Bergeron, Wheeler, Voracek, etc. And thats including his putrid season he just had. Either a) were too hard on hin. B) hes really not elite.

Anyhow, I dont really see Zadina ever topping that, value wise. So the point stands.

The problem is not Pacioretty' production in regular season games. The problem is he never delivers in important games or against tougher opponents. Take a look at his playoff record coupled with his performance in international play and that picture of Torts yelling at him on the USA bench says it all.

And if I remember correctly it was Whitesnake who brought up the stat that even in regular season games his production drops off dramatically against playoff teams. I know that's the case with every scorer but with Captain Ready the fall off was steeper and more worrisome because he doesn't deliver in important games.

It's as if Patches has enough talent to look elite against run of the mill opponents but just not enough talent to climb to the top of the hill.

IMHO I think it's personality not talent. He just doesn't have the drive to go that half step further. You can hear it in his voice when he gives his lame pressers.

Maybe the Chara hit may have something to do with it. Maybe the lack of #1 center could be another reason

 

[Mrb1p]

What I think is happening is that Zadina excelled in a league people are familiar with, while Kotkaniemi was good in a league they're unfamiliar with. There's just no frame of reference. It's easy to see 44 goals and think Nathan MacKinnon, and easy to forget Timo Meier. Whereas the only frame of reference they have for 30 points in Liiga is Artturi Lehkonen.

Id say Kotkaniemi excelled in his league too. Just looking at where Zadina and Kotkaniemi rank relatively, Kotkaniemi had the better season.

 

[Habs76]

Hands??? Compete??? IQ???

Nah

 

[Mrb1p]

The problem is not Pacioretty' production in regular season games. The problem is he never delivers in important games or against tougher opponents. Take a look at his playoff record coupled with his performance in international play and that picture of Torts yelling at him on the USA bench says it all.

And if I remember correctly it was Whitesnake who brought up the stat that even in regular season games his production drops off dramatically against playoff teams. I know that's the case with every scorer but with Captain Ready the fall off was steeper and more worrisome because he doesn't deliver in important games.

It's as if Patches has enough talent to look elite against run of the mill opponents but just not enough talent to climb to the top of the hill.

IMHO I think it's personality not talent. He just doesn't have the drive to go that half step further. You can hear it in his voice when he gives his lame pressers.

I dont care, i dont like Pacioretty, hes a floater and wont get the Habs anywhere because hes good but not good enough, that still doesnt mean hes not elite. Hes top 10 in points production, top 5 in goals and thats since 2012. Saying hes not elite pretty much mean only Ovechkin/Malkin/Mcdavid/Crosby are elite. Thats a bit ridiculous.

I initially brought up the "pac stack his numbers on weak teams" argument BTW.

 

[The Great Weal]

Both would be amazing. Zadina and then those 2 would be a dream come true.

I think it's possible imo. It's also pretty possible to get all theses guys with our 2nds and 3rd.
Dellandrea
O'Brien
Hillis
Morozov
SDA

 

[Habs Icing]

I dont care, i dont like Pacioretty, hes a floater and wont get the Habs anywhere because hes good but not good enough, that still doesnt mean hes not elite. Hes top 10 in points production, top 5 in goals and thats since 2012. Saying hes not elite pretty much mean only Ovechkin/Malkin/Mcdavid/Crosby are elite. Thats a bit ridiculous.

I initially brought up the "pac stack his numbers on weak teams" argument BTW.

All four of those players have delivered when it counted. Patches hasn't. Even McDavid delivered in World Championships. Patches is a good player. I would not consider him elite. And that's coming from someone who spits & curses every time I see him on the ice.

BTW how can you consider someone elite who you describe as good but not good enough?

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Why? Even if he does a complete 180, he will still be a 4th liner. We already have a plethora of those. We can also sign someone to replace him.

If he does a complete 180 he’s a middle 6 guy. That’s a long shot.

I’d be happy with bottom 6 guy but ya he’s worth more to try with than get late picks for. I mean...for now

 

[The Great Weal]

If he does a complete 180 he’s a middle 6 guy. That’s a long shot.

I’d be happy with bottom 6 guy but ya he’s worth more to try with than get late picks for. I mean...for now

I seriously doubt he becomes anything more than a mediocre 4th liner(if he even becomes that). He has absolutely no redeeming qualities to be a top 9 forward. If we can get more than 2 6ths, great, but my point is to trade him for pick(s) this draft.

 

[Runner77]

I think it's possible imo. It's also pretty possible to get all theses guys with our 2nds and 3rd.
Dellandrea
O'Brien
Hillis
Morozov
SDA

Everything is possible so long as Bergevin doesn't send any more picks to his parent club in Chicago. I hope the only reason he moves some of them is to land a must-have faller in the first round or to trade one of them for a second rounder in 2019 plus an extra asset.

 

[Habs Icing]

I think it's possible imo. It's also pretty possible to get all theses guys with our 2nds and 3rd.
Dellandrea
O'Brien
Hillis
Morozov
SDA

You really think Dellandrea will fall to the 2nd round?

 

[Runner77]

You really think Dellandrea will fall to the 2nd round?

Isn't he slated to go in the early 20s? That would be quite the fall.

 

[The Great Weal]

You really think Dellandrea will fall to the 2nd round?

I definitely wouldn't be surprised.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

This was Zadina t the U18s LAST YEAR imagine how hyped people would be if he had done that this year lol

 

[Mrb1p]

All four of those players have delivered when it counted. Patches hasn't. Even McDavid delivered in World Championships. Patches is a good player. I would not consider him elite. And that's coming from someone who spits & curses every time I see him on the ice.

BTW how can you consider someone elite who you describe as good but not good enough?

Theres two wingers in the NHL that would drastically change the make up of this team and even then its not gonna be enough. Plus Ovis not gonna be a game breaker for too long.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I think it's possible imo. It's also pretty possible to get all theses guys with our 2nds and 3rd.
Dellandrea
O'Brien
Hillis
Morozov
SDA

I'd honestly be happy even if it took all 4 of our 2nd rounders to secure just the two of them.

 

[Habs Icing]

Isn't he slated to go in the early 20s? That would be quite the fall.

I saw him and Foudy in the U18s and MB has to get them. They are two players that make a difference unlike Patches. Those two players will probably not pad their stats like Captain Ready but they make a team stronger.

If he is still on the board at 20 we should make an effort to get him. I'd be shocked if he falls out of the first round.