Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Draft Part I

[devilsblood]

I'm all in on Miller. His lack of experience as a d-man is a positive imo, more room for growth.

But I must say that while his straight ahead skating looks good, his footwork skating backwards does not. Def a spot where his lack of experience at D is apparent. I felt the similar with Gelinas in that yes, skating in open ice he looked great, but when it was time to work the corners he was falling all over the place. There are different aspects to skating and I think the brush can be used too broadly.

Still, Miller is my #1 choice.

 

[devilsblood]

If it was that easy, there would be an abundance of legit top 4 defensemen on every team.

Well no because Miller is 6'4" 200 some odd lbs(says he expects to get to 220-230 eventually), good athlete, skates well(see above), puck skills, and has good character. Not many guys bring that combination.

 

[Czech Trio]

If it was that easy, there would be an abundance of legit top 4 defensemen on every team.

Not really considering few have the combination of skating ability, size, and sheer athleticism.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Well no because Miller is 6'4" 200 some odd lbs(says he expects to get to 220-230 eventually), good athlete, skates well(see above), puck skills, and has good character. Not many guys bring that combination.

"Big body, skates well...just needs to learn the position better and use his assets". We hear that EVERY year. Sometimes it works out, other times it doesn't. You need to understand your position. Athelticism alone does not make you a top 4 NHL defenseman by default.

 

[Nocashstyle]

If Miller's floor is as a top 4 defenseman, he would not be falling all the way to 17

 

[Devils Dominion]

"Big body, skates well...just needs to learn the position better and use his assets". We hear that EVERY year. Sometimes it works out, other times it doesn't. You need to understand your position. Athelticism alone does not make you a top 4 NHL defenseman by default.

See Craig Wolanin as a prime example

 

[devilsblood]

"Big body, skates well...just needs to learn the position better and use his assets". We hear that EVERY year. Sometimes it works out, other times it doesn't. You need to understand your position. Athelticism alone does not make you a top 4 NHL defenseman by default.

Most of the time when we hear it the guy has been a d-man forever. Miller has not. So there is a reason as to why he needs to learn the position. That is where character and work ethic come into play. Do you expect him to get better? And by all accounts he is a good kid who works hard.

If Miller's floor is as a top 4 defenseman, he would not be falling all the way to 17

I think a players floor is an overstated term in that we've seen top 5 picks, guys you figure are destined to be at least top 6 player bust out. So anyone can bust, and I think with Miller, just watching him, if he doesn't improve his foot work he will be getting coned consistently at the NHL level. So no I wouldn't at all say his floor is top 4.

But that would go with anyone we pick at 17. If they were guaranteed to be impact players they wouldn't be available at that spot.

 

[Nocashstyle]

How does the fact that Miller has only recently converted to D mitigate concerns? In fact, his recent conversion is more negative than it is positive. Having to learn a new position at a high level is a difficult task.

 

[devilsblood]

Mueller and Gelinas are also guys with similar size skating packages. IMO Gelinas just could not think the game fast enough. Mueller seems to vapor lock in certain situations as well.

So if Miller is to prove himself as above those guys(in addition to the footwork) I think it will need to be decision making. Can he process the game? From what I have seen Miller looks like a sharp kid. I did not get that feel from Gelinas. And maybe not so much from Mueller either, though that could be a language/culture thing.

 

[devilsblood]

How does the fact that Miller has only recently converted to D mitigate concerns? In fact, his recent conversion is more negative than it is positive. Having to learn a new position at a high level is a difficult task.

Consider that his conversion thus far has taken place at an exceedingly high level. . Also consider that he will have a year or two to learn the position at Wisconsin, then perhaps a year in the AHL.

If the hope was to have Miller in NJ next year, then certainly his lack of experience would be an issue. But he like any one picked around him won't likely see the NHL for at least 2 more years. He like anyone else will need to develop.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Mueller and Gelinas are also guys with similar size skating packages. IMO Gelinas just could not think the game fast enough. Mueller seems to vapor lock in certain situations as well.

So if Miller is to prove himself as above those guys(in addition to the footwork) I think it will need to be decision making. Can he process the game? From what I have seen Miller looks like a sharp kid. I did not get that feel from Gelinas. And maybe not so much from Mueller either, though that could be a language/culture thing.

Exactly.

I'm not denying that Miller can't live up to his potential. He certainly can. I'm just pointing out that there's a lot more to factor in than just "athleticism"

 

[thethinglonger]

There was an article by the Athletic where they interviewed scouts from around the league (no teams mentioned of course), and without giving up too much information, it was mentioned that a few teams viewed this draft as a weaker one outside of the top 10. I really have to wonder if the Devils are one of those teams, considering we've traded quite a lot of picks this year..two 2nds and two 3rds

 

[devilsblood]

Exactly.

I'm not denying that Miller can't live up to his potential. He certainly can. I'm just pointing out that there's a lot more to factor in than just "athleticism"

But no one is rolling with "just athleticism". Size, skills, character are all being mentioned in regards to Miller.

 

[Comparison Ford]

the more i think on it, the more i wouldn’t mind trading down and taking Foudy.

 

[Nocashstyle]

I understand Wilde hesitance. Consistency and maybe some effort questions a la Merkley but to a much lesser extent. That said, Miller from all accounts is an outstanding person character wise and if his athleticism is as good as it's reported to be (his skating is already there) by sheer will alone you have to think he becomes a top 4 defenseman in some capacity, if not better.

But no one is rolling with "just athleticism". Size, skills, character are all being mentioned in regards to Miller.

See above

 

[My3Sons]

If it was that easy, there would be an abundance of legit top 4 defensemen on every team.

The combination of great athleticism and great work ethic is fairly rare. He'll need to outwork NHL players to achieve his potential. That's not easy. There are many great athletes who can push themselves enough to do what they have to do, but few who really go all in and work as hard as the borderline players. The ones that do, like say a Crosby, are exceptional. Look at the NFL. About half that league at some points were undrafted free agents. Those guys are typically lacking in athleticism or some other physical attribute, but they make it up on work ethic. Out working a great athlete is not easy.

 

[My3Sons]

Mueller and Gelinas are also guys with similar size skating packages. IMO Gelinas just could not think the game fast enough. Mueller seems to vapor lock in certain situations as well.

So if Miller is to prove himself as above those guys(in addition to the footwork) I think it will need to be decision making. Can he process the game? From what I have seen Miller looks like a sharp kid. I did not get that feel from Gelinas. And maybe not so much from Mueller either, though that could be a language/culture thing.

What you raise is a very overlooked and very important characteristic. On the fly real time game processing done quickly is probably more important for a defender than any other position. I agree that Miller's intellect is probably the key to whether his efforts will pay off in the long run.

 

[devilsblood]

What you raise is a very overlooked and very important characteristic. On the fly real time game processing done quickly is probably more important for a defender than any other position. I agree that Miller's intellect is probably the key to whether his efforts will pay off in the long run.

And on ice decision making is more then being just smart. Now Miller does look like a smart kid, but I said "sharp" above because I think there is something to his personality that I took as a positive. Am I reaching at this point? Maybe.

 

[devilsblood]

See above

He mentions his skating and character.

 

[devilsblood]

So what do we think of Ginning? Some rankings have in the 40's, Future has him in the 70's, but ISS has him 17, and Central scouting has him #5 amongst EU skaters. Above Bokk, Kupari, Kotka.

6'3", lefty d-man, played a bunch in the SHL this year, captain at the WJC.

 

[Nocashstyle]

He mentions his skating and character.

Skating isn't an aspect of athelticism in a hockey sense? And character? Really? He may have a good head on his shoulders, but that guarantees nothing. If you are athletic and try hard, but you don't have a high sense for the position, you're not going to be a top 4 NHL defenseman.

 

[My3Sons]

And on ice decision making is more then being just smart. Now Miller does look like a smart kid, but I said "sharp" above because I think there is something to his personality that I took as a positive. Am I reaching at this point? Maybe.

No the ability to make smart decisions quickly is what you are suggesting and I agree. There are plenty of smart people who think at different speeds. Look at competitive quiz type situations in school. The smartest kid doesn’t always win it’s usually whoever buzzed in first.

 

[Nocashstyle]

The combination of great athleticism and great work ethic is fairly rare. He'll need to outwork NHL players to achieve his potential. That's not easy. There are many great athletes who can push themselves enough to do what they have to do, but few who really go all in and work as hard as the borderline players. The ones that do, like say a Crosby, are exceptional. Look at the NFL. About half that league at some points were undrafted free agents. Those guys are typically lacking in athleticism or some other physical attribute, but they make it up on work ethic. Out working a great athlete is not easy.

Yeah, except Corsby's hockey sense/IQ are off the charts....

You're missing a very big part of the picture.

 

[My3Sons]

Skating isn't an aspect of athelticism in a hockey sense? And character? Really? He may have a good head on his shoulders, but that guarantees nothing. If you are athletic and try hard, but you don't have a high sense for the position, you're not going to be a top 4 NHL defenseman.

That’s the tricky part. If he is smart and can learn with coaching and repetition and can make use of what he learns he can be a very good player. It’s up to the scouts and teams that interviewed him to decide on that.

 

[devilsblood]

the more i think on it, the more i wouldn’t mind trading down and taking Foudy.

I'm big on Miller.

But I'd be OK with trading down and taking a McIsaac Foudy type combo.