2018 Management Discussion

[pgj98m3]

Yeah - he had sooooo much left in the cupboard when he took over didn't he? I mean our prospect pool was absolutely stacked wasn't it?
SMH.......

#cuethebutwehadkeslerasanassettcries

And he did soooooooooooo much to make the team better.

 

[I in the Eye]

He's learning!

He's finally getting it!

Only at the expense of literally gutting the franchise of talent through horrific pro and amateur scouting decisions and asset management.

Only after THREE years of bottom 5 finishes.

Only after being the worst team in the NHL over a 3 year period.

But he's getting it! This is acceptable to just ignore the past 4 seasons of trash fire decisions now that he's making decisions that are just table stakes to being an average NHL GM.

I'll believe it when I see it... I don't for a second believe that if tavares wanted to come here Benning would turn him down because he is "rebuilding". Tavares is even in the magical "26-32 age range necessary for winning". If Benning's learning anything, it's that he can fall back on "rebuild" for failure in the standings or setting out a goal. Tavares was going to meet with 5 teams? I doubt that Vancouver was on his list... and I very much doubt that if Vancouver was on the list, Benning said thanks, but no thanks... we're rebuilding. He never had an opportunity to get Tavares... Vancouver was never on Tavare's list. Benning can attach any reason he wants to it... be it "rebuild", or Tavare's hair isn't dark enough, etc... Benning was never in control to be in a position to make a decision on signing Tavares or not.

I don't believe he's not going to try and get ufa's of significance. What I do think is that if he fails, he might use "rebuild" as a new excuse... and good for him for seeing that. This was in his arsenal all along, and the Believers eat this shit up.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I Mac the shill is your man.

Who's yours?...Botchford, Taj on twitter and Prosthetic Conscience?

 

[VancouverJagger]

And he did soooooooooooo much to make the team better.

Yeah I don't think he did amazing to start at all either. But the majority of people on this board seem to think we should have been able to trade 4th rounders for Norris trophy candidates.

He came in to a complete and utter waste land utterly devoid of prospects. He really had VERY VERY little to work with - regardless of how you feel he's done you really can't dispute that he took over a sinking ship with pretty much no youth or prospect depth.

 

[Fire Benning]

Man, quotes like this make me feel like he's finally "getting it." I mean we'll see if the actions back the words, but so far that's a positive sign.

He's finally getting it, only took 4 years.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I'll believe it when I see it... I don't for a second believe that if tavares wanted to come here Benning would turn him down because he is "rebuilding". Tavares is even in the magical "26-32 age range necessary for winning". If Benning's learning anything, it's that he can fall back on "rebuild" for failure in the standings or setting out a goal. Tavares was going to meet with 5 teams? I doubt that Vancouver was on his list... and I very much doubt that if Vancouver was on the list, Benning said thanks, but no thanks... we're rebuilding. He never had an opportunity to get Tavares... Vancouver was never on Tavare's list. Benning can attach any reason he wants to it... be it "rebuild", or Tavare's hair isn't dark enough, etc... Benning was never in control to be in a position to make a decision on signing Tavares or not.

I don't believe he's not going to try and get ufa's of significance. What I do think is that if he fails, he might use "rebuild" as a new excuse... and good for him for seeing that. This was in his arsenal all along, and the Believers eat this **** up.

Mostly negative speculation on your part,but its completely obvious that the Canucks are not a destination for any high profile UFA's..especially since they are at the beginning cycle of a new core.

 

[MS]

He's learning!

He's finally getting it!

Only at the expense of literally gutting the franchise of talent through horrific pro and amateur scouting decisions and asset management.

Only after THREE years of bottom 5 finishes.

Only after being the worst team in the NHL over a 3 year period.

But he's getting it! This is acceptable to just ignore the past 4 seasons of trash fire decisions now that he's making decisions that are just table stakes to being an average NHL GM.

No kidding, eh.

The bar has been set so low that being able to make the sort of basic logic and value judgements you'd expect a casual fan to be able to make is considered a success.

 

[I in the Eye]

Mostly negative speculation on your part,but its completely obvious that the Canucks are not a destination for any high profile UFA's..especially since they are at the beginning cycle of a new core.

"The Canucks are not a destination for any high profile ufa's since they are at the beginning cycle of a new core" is just like saying, "no high profile ufa's want to sign here because the Canucks suck".

I think you're right... and I think I'm right. However, you are using "lindenisms" to put makeup on a bush pig.

The desire hasn't changed... what's changed is the opportunity. The Canucks would sign tavares if there was a chance to do so. I think pretty much any team in the league would.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

"The Canucks are not a destination for any high profile ufa's since they are at the beginning cycle of a new core" is just like saying, "no high profile ufa's want to sign here because the Canucks suck".

I think you're right... and I think I'm right. However, you are using "lindenisms" to put makeup on a bush pig.

The desire hasn't changed... what's changed is the opportunity. The Canucks would sign tavares if there was a chance to do so. I think pretty much any team in the league would.

No high profile UFA's are going to sign with any team that is in rebuilding mode...Lets see how many top UFA's sign up to play for NYR or Detroit in the next couple of years.

 

[y2kcanucks]

No high profile UFA's are going to sign with any team that is in rebuilding mode...Lets see how many top UFA's sign up to play for NYR or Detroit in the next couple of years.

Except that's not really true. Buffalo's been rebuilding for years yet they managed to sign Kyle Okposo who was among the top of his UFA class.

The Minnesota Wild had missed the playoffs 4 years in a row when they signed Parise and Suter.

It is rare, but it does happen.

 

[Peen]

If Benning signs guys he can flip at the next two deadlines, then we'll have finally done what we should have done AT THE ABSOLUTE LATEST in 2016-2017.

 

[Bleach Clean]

For the record,I think that its good that we have a diverse media...Botchford is taking the place of Tony G,and you do need peeps in the media like Sekeres and Botchford to keep the management in check.

The problem I have with Botchford (whose Provies are an 'opinion piece') is that there never seems to be an identifiable source..yet the negatives here gobble it up as fact....Unlike someone like Jeff Patterson who will just crap on the management without bias.

Botchford does cite sources. The statement that he "never does" is obviously incorrect. He doesn't do so here, but he does make a matter of fact statement instead:

"The Canucks would have considered Hayton or Kotkaniemi at seven over Hughes if available"

He's not saying "I think X". It's an opinion piece, yes, but he doesn't phrase this as speculation here. He knows something. This is taken as rumour. It's taken as an inside scoop that cannot be vetted because the source will not step forward... Welcome to the rumour mill of the NHL.

I think the problem you have is with negative rumours. It's not with people accepting/rejecting those rumours. If it were positive rumours, I doubt we would see you criticize the writer or the content. Further, you're trying to speak out of both sides of your mouth by stating that you think it's "good that we have diverse media" and then denounce negative views offered by that same diverse media. Like, what?? It's a clearly hypocritical position and doesn't leave you any room for error when citing rumours yourself, or speculating upon rumours others have cited. It's all or nothing. Good luck with this.

 

[MadaCanuckle]

Hayton over Hughes? Oh boy...

About that Pouliot kid, right now, he sucks, right? So why we gave up a pick for him? And if we didn't want to qualify him, why didn't we trade him at deadline for... picks?

 

[Melvin]

Hayton over Hughes? Oh boy...

About that Pouliot kid, right now, he sucks, right? So why we gave up a pick for him? And if we didn't want to qualify him, why didn't we trade him at deadline for... picks?

We drafted Hughes.

 

[CanaFan]

Yeah I don't think he did amazing to start at all either. But the majority of people on this board seem to think we should have been able to trade 4th rounders for Norris trophy candidates.

He came in to a complete and utter waste land utterly devoid of prospects. He really had VERY VERY little to work with - regardless of how you feel he's done you really can't dispute that he took over a sinking ship with pretty much no youth or prospect depth.

No one is judging him on turning it around quickly. People are judging the type of moves he did make and the results of those moves. When he traded Kesler, what did he seek in return? When he targeted a defenseman with picks and prospects, which one did he target? How has he used trade deadlines to obtain additional draft picks and prospects? What type of UFAs has he gone after?

That’s what we can judge him on and do judge him on. No one is saying “whoa, what an empty cupboard of prospects, Gillis left him so many and he’s wasted them all”. But he was left many tradeable veterans and we’ve seen what he has done with that. Other than Bieksa (2nd) and Burrows (Dahlen), most of it has been wasted or frittered away. Truth is we should be further along in our prospect pool than where we are today given what we had to trade and how many high picks we’ve had since Benning took over in 2014.

 

[VancouverJagger]

No one is judging him on turning it around quickly. People are judging the type of moves he did make and the results of those moves. When he traded Kesler, what did he seek in return? When he targeted a defenseman with picks and prospects, which one did he target? How has he used trade deadlines to obtain additional draft picks and prospects? What type of UFAs has he gone after?

That’s what we can judge him on and do judge him on. No one is saying “whoa, what an empty cupboard of prospects, Gillis left him so many and he’s wasted them all”. But he was left many tradeable veterans and we’ve seen what he has done with that. Other than Bieksa (2nd) and Burrows (Dahlen), most of it has been wasted or frittered away. Truth is we should be further along in our prospect pool than where we are today given what we had to trade and how many high picks we’ve had since Benning took over in 2014.

Well for most of you that think Benning sucks it would appear to be that a lot of the Board is saying that he's *gasp.......improving at his job - that it looks like he might finally be *gasp - getting it?

IF he kept his job before doing such a shitty job I really don't see any way that he gets let go any time soon.......especially with the hope that Hughes EP and Brock are going to bring.

Buckle up people - looks like for better or for worse we are stuck with this management for the very foreseeable future.

 

[Bleach Clean]

We drafted Hughes.

We knew that before this rumour came out...?

 

[Melvin]

We knew that before this rumour came out...?

I'm explaining why we have lost interest in Pouliot.

Also "asset management" is a stupid concept mostly thrown around by people who neither understand the sunk cost fallacy nor the endowment effect.

 

[Verviticus]

There go all of my criticisms of Benning. As much as I loved his drafting philosophy I was always in the back of my mind worried about his philosophy on managing cap space, or lack thereof. Great to see him learning and integrating new ideas into his repertoire. OR maybe he always felt this way but was handcuffed by highly aggressive & competitive owners. We'll never know. All we know is that moving forward he's shown flashes of greatness in all areas of management, those flashes are increasing in frequency, and his bad moves (which seemed to be related to trying to delay the inevitable rebuild) are decreasing in frequency if not completely gone. The future truly is bright in every aspect of the organization now.

duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'm explaining why we have lost interest in Pouliot.

Also "asset management" is a stupid concept mostly thrown around by people who neither understand the sunk cost fallacy nor the endowment effect.

Not if you take the approach that the asset squandered was the 4th round pick. Sunk Cost and Endowment Effect apply to recouping value on Pouliot, which was never really in the offing.

Asset management is still a thing with people who understand the fallacy and the psychological effects you describe.

Losing interest in Pouliot = Good thing.

 

[I in the Eye]

I don't think Benning is improving... I think reality has given him a stern talking to, and now that it is clear to him (and everyone) that the Canucks suck, what can he do? Significant ufa's aren't going to come here. He can only trade blue chip young roster players / prospects for 26 - 32 age group players of significance... which would get him lynched... or just continue to prod along and hope for improvement from the youth.

Benning hasn't really learned or improved, imo. He sunk the team so he can only now do what all bottom feeders do. When in Rome...

Losing interest in Pouliot = Good thing.

Losing interest in Pouliot would be a good thing... but I'm not sure that there is interest lost in Pouliot. I'm half expecting a multi-year deal, or a signing despite Pouliot now being a UFA. However, if it becomes clear that interest in Pouliot has been lost (through Benning's words and actions), I can only admit that this is a good thing, and could be a piece of evidence towards improvement / learning.

 

[CanaFan]

Well for most of you that think Benning sucks it would appear to be that a lot of the Board is saying that he's *gasp.......improving at his job - that it looks like he might finally be *gasp - getting it?

IF he kept his job before doing such a ****ty job I really don't see any way that he gets let go any time soon.......especially with the hope that Hughes EP and Brock are going to bring.

Buckle up people - looks like for better or for worse we are stuck with this management for the very foreseeable future.

Even that’s debatable. What exactly is he doing so much better? Got any specifics?

All I can see is he’s run out of tradeable assets - Garrison, Kesler, Bieksa, Lack, Garrison, Burrows, and Hansen - so he’s run out of bullets in the ol’ stupid chamber. He seems to be content to just draft (reasonably well) and swing at some low level UFAs. Which is fine, but it’s not like he’s making GREAT moves these days. He’s just not making many moves at all, which limits the number of stupid ones. But his last TDL was still brutal, we just left a draft with fewer than 7 picks, and we haven’t seen any of his summer moves yet.

“Getting it” lol

That makes sense if you’re talking about a new employee on drive thru at a Wendy’s. This guy was an AGM for 7 years before coming here. He shouldn’t have to spend 4 years before “getting it”.

 

[Canucks LB]

Jimbo is basically a Pokemon trainer.
He starts off in the beginning of his journey and chooses Charmander when he drafted Virtanen
His Pokemon evolved into Charmeleon when He picked Boeser
He then got beat by team rocket in 2016 with awful contracts and draft (in juolevi)
But after fighting through all the hardships he evolved again...
Charizard was born!, he pulled off a stupidly good draft in 2017, Drafting Elias Pettersson
This year he got his mega-Evolution and his once charmander has transformed into Mega Charizard with Drafting Hughes
As you can see it's been a tough journey to be a true Pokemon champion, but Jimbo this year is going to challenge the Elite Four when he does not sign Awful contracts for the first year ever, and one day hopefully becoming a true Pokemon Master

PS - I am bored as holy hell

 

[Nick1219]

With regards to the draft... I think Hughes was their guy 100% no matter who was there aside from Svechnikov and Dahlin of course.

I think if you put the two quotes together from Brian Burke and Jim Hughes it seems like the Canucks told the Hughes family something similar to this: "We 100% want to draft Quinn and he's our guy. If he's available we're taking him. We're exploring options to trade up to make sure we get him, however if it we're confident he'll fall to us we won't do a deal, nor will we if it doesn't make sense for the organization."

 

[VancouverJagger]

Even that’s debatable. What exactly is he doing so much better? Got any specifics?

All I can see is he’s run out of tradeable assets - Garrison, Kesler, Bieksa, Lack, Garrison, Burrows, and Hansen - so he’s run out of bullets in the ol’ stupid chamber. He seems to be content to just draft (reasonably well) and swing at some low level UFAs. Which is fine, but it’s not like he’s making GREAT moves these days. He’s just not making many moves at all, which limits the number of stupid ones. But his last TDL was still brutal, we just left a draft with fewer than 7 picks, and we haven’t seen any of his summer moves yet.

“Getting it” lol

That makes sense if you’re talking about a new employee on drive thru at a Wendy’s. This guy was an AGM for 7 years. He should have to spend 4 years before “getting it”.

Even you yourself recently admitted that you would give him a C+ or B grade now and that he's improved - or do you refute saying that?

His contracts have been a lot better - no more onerous ones like previously - him and his team seem to have a much better understanding that we are actually rebuilding. Will see what he does next week but I have a feeling he won't be giving out term like many people were concerned with.

Drafting has been pretty solid - it's still a wait and see approach but he's already drafted us 2 soon to be superstars - with any luck that will be 3 with Hughes.

Pro scouting has been pretty rough still - whoever is running that needs to get fired.

Overall though I think he's improved immensely. Granted the bar may have been set rather low but barring an absolute disaster (which this season very well could be - some of these line ups being floated are bottom 5 for sure unless EP happens to light it up and Hughes comes in and is a difference maker) I think Benning is here to stay for a while - so like I said - buckle up folks - you might want to learn to live with the fact it looks like Benning isn't going anywhere.