2018 Management Discussion, Pt. III - Now with Less Trevor and More Mutiny

[alternate]

Sitting through illogical decision after illogical decision reducing this organization from a two-time President's Trophy winning pinnacle of progressive thought in professional sports into a perennial loser old boys club where it's fans are clearly just farmed for money and the entire point is everything but the actual hockey.

Why is everyone mad?

Pinnacle of progressive thought? Oh geez, I liked Gillis but c'mon man. What are some examples of this progressive thought? Hiring Ryan Walter as motivation coach? Naming Luongo captain? Not letting players wear high numbers cuz high numbers? Having Salo blow out an achilles so Bieksa didn't need to get traded? Letting Ehrhoff walk over $500k? Kesler and the Sedins having other-worldly work ethics? Draft process that gave us butkus?

Sure he brought in nutritionists and sleep doctors. But nutritionists are hardly "pinnacles of progressive thought" and weren't Gillis's invention. Sleep doctors were something I guess but even then I remember one of the Sedins being asked about them and he said something along the lines of "maybe it's helpful but there's something to be said for getting home and sleeping in your own bed." Coming from the Sedins, that's not exactly a glowing endorsement of really the only "cutting edge" thing Gillis did.

Gillis was a slick talker and had unconventional ideas. But for the most part, those unconventional ideas were flops. Benning is an awkward talker and inherited a team at the exact opposite end of the competitive spectrum compared to Gillis. Gillis's tenure was the most successful in franchise history, but it had nothing to do with how "progressive" he was.

Back to the present...this current core is shaping up to give the Sedins/Kesler core a run for their money. I'm glad Benning is allowing his core to emerge at their own pace rather than just throwing everyone into the deep end to drown.

 

[ddawg1950]

I am not a Benning fan. He has made some monumentally stupid signings...Loui Eriksson and Sam Gagner are unforgivable, IMO.

But it seems to me the same people that were cheering for the tank hate Benning more than anyone else.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

It is pretty easy to see from any of the draft video's JB does not do most of the drafting. This is clearly done by the staff that Gillis brought in. So I son't understand giving JB a lot of credit here.



Gillis wanted to rebuild and was shut down by ownership.

They're not making shotgun calls from the draft table. The game plan is long in the making based on a year or more of research; they are working from a script. Even if it is on tv

 

[CanaFan]

I am not a Benning fan. He has made some monumentally stupid signings...Loui Eriksson and Sam Gagner are unforgivable, IMO.

But it seems to me the same people that were cheering for the tank hate Benning more than anyone else.

Because there’s two ways to tank. Trade off assets for more prospects and picks while you crash to the bottom and draft high. This is what the NY Rangers did this year as soon as it became apparent they weren’t going to succeed with their current roster.

Then there’s the Jim Benning method where you trade picks and prospects for awful players in an ill-conceived attempt to compete for playoffs, only to still crash to the bottom and draft high.


Tank fans are fans of the former, while Benning fans seem to think the latter is just as good.

 

[sting101]

Pinnacle of progressive thought? Oh geez, I liked Gillis but c'mon man. What are some examples of this progressive thought? Hiring Ryan Walter as motivation coach? Naming Luongo captain? Not letting players wear high numbers cuz high numbers? Having Salo blow out an achilles so Bieksa didn't need to get traded? Letting Ehrhoff walk over $500k? Kesler and the Sedins having other-worldly work ethics? Draft process that gave us butkus?

Sure he brought in nutritionists and sleep doctors. But nutritionists are hardly "pinnacles of progressive thought" and weren't Gillis's invention. Sleep doctors were something I guess but even then I remember one of the Sedins being asked about them and he said something along the lines of "maybe it's helpful but there's something to be said for getting home and sleeping in your own bed." Coming from the Sedins, that's not exactly a glowing endorsement of really the only "cutting edge" thing Gillis did.

Gillis was a slick talker and had unconventional ideas. But for the most part, those unconventional ideas were flops. Benning is an awkward talker and inherited a team at the exact opposite end of the competitive spectrum compared to Gillis. Gillis's tenure was the most successful in franchise history, but it had nothing to do with how "progressive" he was.

Back to the present...this current core is shaping up to give the Sedins/Kesler core a run for their money. I'm glad Benning is allowing his core to emerge at their own pace rather than just throwing everyone into the deep end to drown.

yes the sleep bracelets that Cody had to wear....lol

Or taking 2 yrs to get us into Utica after the Moose lost Winnipeg.

And its somewhat ironic hearing the love fest for the progressive minds of Gillis and Gillman and hearing how they thought they were on the cutting edge of how the game was trending (speed) while drafting poor skaters like Hodgson Gaunce Mallet Sauve Shinkaruk and signing and trading for Glass Bernier Ballard Torres Garrison Sturm Roy Pahlsson Diaz and moving Grabner and Weise out.

 

[mathonwy]

We should have pursued Brad Richardson this off season. (Hell we shouldn't have let him go in the first place, but we needed certain foundational players and awful extensions to other guys so he walked.)

Everything you want in a bottom six center and with less cost/term then Beagle.

You think Brad wants to come back this crap show?

 

[Motte and Bailey]

No he isn't.

He's a solid 4th liner, yes, but completely out of place on a team like the Canucks. Also now grossly overpaid on a long-term contract with NTC.

He isn’t overpaid if he will bring value to your kids through mentor ship, you maybe pay him a million dollars more than he would’ve gotten on a contender who is under the cap crunch but if you get him to help some young kids find their way then you’re potentially getting back many more millions in cap savings if those young kids developed into better players on those cheap entry contracts.

 

[RobertKron]

He isn’t overpaid if he will bring value to your kids through mentor ship, you maybe pay him a million dollars more than he would’ve gotten on a contender who is under the cap crunch but if you get him to help some young kids find their way then you’re potentially getting back many more millions in cap savings if those young kids developed into better players on those cheap entry contracts.

You know it’s a good signing when you can only defend it by ascribing magical qualities to the player.

 

[megatron]

You know it’s a good signing when you can only defend it by ascribing magical qualities to the player.

dont be so negative bro, hes a gym rat apparently and has massive mentorship plus he's going to be playing "tough minutes" and "bash the net", also cuz of his size hes not going to get injured as much.

 

[racerjoe]

They're not making shotgun calls from the draft table. The game plan is long in the making based on a year or more of research; they are working from a script. Even if it is on tv

JB still knows nothing about most of the prospects. It is pretty clear. It’s not just the table, but also the other videos.

 

[Jyrki21]

Maybe I’m simple, but Benning speaking only in all caps is always funny.

He gets his own font as well. I try to avoid giving him punctuation as much as I can (usually only dashes) but I actually broke that rule this week in the final panel... otherwise the tone gets lost. And also in the cold open, come to think of it, but that was just because I can't resist the upside-down question mark.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

Pinnacle of progressive thought? Oh geez, I liked Gillis but c'mon man. What are some examples of this progressive thought? Hiring Ryan Walter as motivation coach? Naming Luongo captain? Not letting players wear high numbers cuz high numbers? Having Salo blow out an achilles so Bieksa didn't need to get traded? Letting Ehrhoff walk over $500k? Kesler and the Sedins having other-worldly work ethics? Draft process that gave us butkus?

Sure he brought in nutritionists and sleep doctors. But nutritionists are hardly "pinnacles of progressive thought" and weren't Gillis's invention. Sleep doctors were something I guess but even then I remember one of the Sedins being asked about them and he said something along the lines of "maybe it's helpful but there's something to be said for getting home and sleeping in your own bed." Coming from the Sedins, that's not exactly a glowing endorsement of really the only "cutting edge" thing Gillis did.

Gillis was a slick talker and had unconventional ideas. But for the most part, those unconventional ideas were flops. Benning is an awkward talker and inherited a team at the exact opposite end of the competitive spectrum compared to Gillis. Gillis's tenure was the most successful in franchise history, but it had nothing to do with how "progressive" he was.

Back to the present...this current core is shaping up to give the Sedins/Kesler core a run for their money. I'm glad Benning is allowing his core to emerge at their own pace rather than just throwing everyone into the deep end to drown.

If you don't consider the changes Gillis institued in this team that lead it to the Stanley Cup finals and two President Trophies the pinnacles of progressive thought in professional sports. What do you consider Benning?

Oh, he's a genius because we got some chickens who might hatch after five years.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

JB still knows nothing about most of the prospects. It is pretty clear. It’s not just the table, but also the other videos.

You are the only one with that takeaway from the draft coverage.

I'm usually swimming against the current around here

 

[Melvin]

Who cares.

 

[racerjoe]

You are the only one with that takeaway from the draft coverage.

I'm usually swimming against the current around here

I am really not...

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Pinnacle of progressive thought? Oh geez, I liked Gillis but c'mon man. What are some examples of this progressive thought? Hiring Ryan Walter as motivation coach? Naming Luongo captain? Not letting players wear high numbers cuz high numbers? Having Salo blow out an achilles so Bieksa didn't need to get traded? Letting Ehrhoff walk over $500k? Kesler and the Sedins having other-worldly work ethics? Draft process that gave us butkus?

Sure he brought in nutritionists and sleep doctors. But nutritionists are hardly "pinnacles of progressive thought" and weren't Gillis's invention. Sleep doctors were something I guess but even then I remember one of the Sedins being asked about them and he said something along the lines of "maybe it's helpful but there's something to be said for getting home and sleeping in your own bed." Coming from the Sedins, that's not exactly a glowing endorsement of really the only "cutting edge" thing Gillis did.

Gillis was a slick talker and had unconventional ideas. But for the most part, those unconventional ideas were flops. Benning is an awkward talker and inherited a team at the exact opposite end of the competitive spectrum compared to Gillis. Gillis's tenure was the most successful in franchise history, but it had nothing to do with how "progressive" he was.

Back to the present...this current core is shaping up to give the Sedins/Kesler core a run for their money. I'm glad Benning is allowing his core to emerge at their own pace rather than just throwing everyone into the deep end to drown.

When you put it that way Gillis was a snake oil salesman in many ways and so many fans bought the kool aid and drank it because of the way he talked. What did it get us? It probably costed us a cup and wasted the Sedins and Kesler’s Primes because of all the no trades that hamstrung the flexibility of the team, and guaranteed that we would be bottom feeders by destroying the effectiveness of the drafting department. But of course Gillis can do nothing wrong in the eyes of Gillis bros who drank the cool aid. A lot of people were taken in by the flashy gimmicks like the sleep doctors. It’s too bad Benning doesn’t have something shiny to distract the masses with while he does the real work that Gillis didn’t do.

 

[CanaFan]

When you put it that way Gillis was a snake oil salesman in many ways and so many fans bought the kool aid and drank it because of the way he talked. What did it get us? It probably costed us a cup and wasted the Sedins and Kesler’s Primes because of all the no trades that hamstrung the flexibility of the team, and guaranteed that we would be bottom feeders by destroying the effectiveness of the drafting department. But of course Gillis can do nothing wrong in the eyes of Gillis bros who drank the cool aid. A lot of people were taken in by the flashy gimmicks like the sleep doctors. It’s too bad Benning doesn’t have something shiny to distract the masses with while he does the real work that Gillis didn’t do.

What work should Gillis have done? Hard to draft in the top 7 in 3 straight drafts when you are busy chasing a cup.

 

[Scott Stevens]

Naming Luongo captain? Not letting players wear high numbers cuz high numbers? Having Salo blow out an achilles so Bieksa didn't need to get traded? Letting Ehrhoff walk over $500k? Kesler and the Sedins having other-worldly work ethics? Draft process that gave us butkus?

Sure he brought in nutritionists and sleep doctors. But nutritionists are hardly "pinnacles of progressive thought" and weren't Gillis's invention. Sleep doctors were something I guess but even then I remember one of the Sedins being asked about them and he said something along the lines of "maybe it's helpful but there's something to be said for getting home and sleeping in your own bed." Coming from the Sedins, that's not exactly a glowing endorsement of really the only "cutting edge" thing Gillis did.

Gillis was a slick talker and had unconventional ideas. But for the most part, those unconventional ideas were flops. Benning is an awkward talker and inherited a team at the exact opposite end of the competitive spectrum compared to Gillis. Gillis's tenure was the most successful in franchise history, but it had nothing to do with how "progressive" he was.

Back to the present...this current core is shaping up to give the Sedins/Kesler core a run for their money. I'm glad Benning is allowing his core to emerge at their own pace rather than just throwing everyone into the deep end to drown.

Bupkis. This is Butkus.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

When you put it that way Gillis was a snake oil salesman in many ways and so many fans bought the kool aid and drank it because of the way he talked. What did it get us? It probably costed us a cup and wasted the Sedins and Kesler’s Primes because of all the no trades that hamstrung the flexibility of the team, and guaranteed that we would be bottom feeders by destroying the effectiveness of the drafting department. But of course Gillis can do nothing wrong in the eyes of Gillis bros who drank the cool aid. A lot of people were taken in by the flashy gimmicks like the sleep doctors. It’s too bad Benning doesn’t have something shiny to distract the masses with while he does the real work that Gillis didn’t do.

gillis bros were just fooled with flashy gimmicks like all those shiny trophies and glittering banners!!

 

[Motte and Bailey]

What work should Gillis have done? Hard to draft in the top 7 in 3 straight drafts when you are busy chasing a cup.

Are you KIDDING me?

He could’ve drafted Erik Karlsson instead of Cody Hodgson.

Then he could have drafted Evgeni Kuznetov with the 1st rounder he threw away for Keith Ballard.

Then he could’ve drafted Ryan O’Reilly instead of Jordan Schroeder.

Then he could’ve drafted Rickard Rakell, who literally was picked right after Nicklas Jensen.

Then he could’ve drafted Brady Skjei instead of Brendan Gaunce.

Then he could’ve drafted Shea Theodore instead of Hunter Shinkaruk.

How many years of blown first round picks in a row does it take for you to realize that Gillis was a bad at the most important part about being a GM?

 

[MS]

Are you KIDDING me?

He could’ve drafted Erik Karlsson instead of Cody Hodgson.

Then he could have drafted Evgeni Kuznetov with the 1st rounder he threw away for Keith Ballard.

Then he could’ve drafted Ryan O’Reilly instead of Jordan Schroeder.

Then he could’ve drafted Rickard Rakell, who literally was picked right after Nicklas Jensen.

Then he could’ve drafted Brady Skjei instead of Brendan Gaunce.

Then he could’ve drafted Shea Theodore instead of Hunter Shinkaruk.

How many years of blown first round picks in a row does it take for you to realize that Gillis was a bad at the most important part about being a GM?

You clearly don't understand drafting, don't understand how drafting works, don't understand those drafts, and weren't following hockey when those drafts were happening.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

gillis bros were just fooled with flashy gimmicks like all those shiny trophies and glittering banners!!

Oh you mean those trophies and banners that no one else cares about?

 

[The Drop]

Oh you mean those trophies and banners that no one else cares about?

Your boss is a POS.

 

[MS]

Oh you mean those trophies and banners that no one else cares about?

Yeah, it was dark days in 2011 when nobody cared about the team and we were winning division title after division title to a half-empty building.

Nothing like now with the thousands-long season pass waiting list to watch Jay Beagle. Fans have never been more engaged than under Jim Benning!

 

[Motte and Bailey]

You clearly don't understand drafting, don't understand how drafting works, don't understand those drafts, and weren't following hockey when those drafts were happening.

I must've struck a nerve for you to argue from authority like this. Please enlighten us all with the wisdom that would justify picking no namers with no NHL significant NHL futures by single spots or single digit draft spots over all stars and future hall of famers?

Gillis clearly had no idea how to scout players, nor did he know how to direct his scouting staff towards the right qualities in players that would lead to picking the right players that would perform well in the NHL, nor did he possess the ability to read a player's character the way a GM like Benning would employ an AGM like John Weisbrod to do.

In contrast, Benning possesses all of these abilities and will make off the board picks like Pettersson who was rated 9th, and because he knows how to do all those things. With the exception of Virtanen and McCann, which we can forgive because it was his first year and he didn't have all year to work with the scouts in developing the draft lists, he nailed every single first round pick and many more late round picks than nearly any other GM in the same time period. However you can still see in that 2014 draft him make some pretty nice picks in the later rounds which shows his residual draft skills taking over after a rough first round.

If Benning was the GM instead of Gillis in 2008, there's no doubt that he would've supplemented the Sedins, Kesler, and Luongo with several young stars like Karlsson, Rakell, and others. It's no use dwelling on the past but if we are going to go there it should be said and people should realize we should have won a cup if we had even halfway decent drafting during Gillis' tenure.

It's a good thing that Benning is the GM and hopefully he will remain with the organization in a significant capacity, perhaps he will be promoted from GM duties, because his impact on the scouting is night and day from the way it was without him and drafting is by far the most important aspect of team building in the new NHL by far.