2018 Management Discussion, Pt. III - Now with Less Trevor and More Mutiny

[RandV]

Beagle is preventing gaunce and players like that from developing into a players that will help us win a cup. In 3 years time when we have a chance at the playoffs or somehow a cup beagle will be an anchor whereas a player like gaunce who would be 27 and in their prime could be a key piece but we won’t know that cause beagle needed to be signed now to an too long and too expensive contract

You really have to wonder how much we're going to get out of a guy like Beagle as well. To be an elite 4th liner in the NHL requires a great amount of grit and hustle. And when you're a bottom six guy playing for a contender competing for the Cup you have the motivation to bring it every night.

But how motivated is that same player going to be when he's in his 30's and due to start slowing down, has a lucrative retirement contract in place and will get his paycheque one way or the other for the next 4 years, and is playing on a team that barring a miracle will be in the basement with no hopes of making the playoffs? Even consummate professionals like the Sedin's struggled when there was nothing left to play for the last few seasons, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Jay Beagle the Canucks get is a far cry from the Jay Beagle the Capitals had.

 

[CanaFan]

Interesting the way you see our D. Maybe the older ones are merely place holders for Hughes, Juiolevi, Brisebois, Woo, etc?

Maybe. Paid a lot for some of these placeholders though.

 

[Hodgy]

Or you could learn to be a grown up and do what you like while letting others do the same. Within board rules of course.

Not a tough concept to grasp IMO.

Benning's results have been objectively terrible, but yet those who criticize him are "haters". I wonder how Nick Lang would describe himself?

 

[Fatass]

Maybe. Paid a lot for some of these placeholders though.

True, but it’s Aquilini paying the bills, and he extended JB. I understood the retool philosophy, but never agreed with it. I always believed it would be best to keep the Cap at the floor during the years of rebuild, and lower ticket prices to help keep the fans coming. Is there a league rule governing ticket price changes, up or down?

 

[Hodgy]

True, but it’s Aquilini paying the bills, and he extended JB. I understood the retool philosophy, but never agreed with it. I always believed it would be best to keep the Cap at the floor during the years of rebuild, and lower ticket prices to help keep the fans coming. Is there a league rule governing ticket price changes, up or down?

He gave up futures for some of the losers he acquired, so it isn't just money.

 

[Fatass]

Benning's results have been objectively terrible, but yet those who criticize him are "haters". I wonder how Nick Lang would describe himself?

Does JB get any credit for the best young group of players in our team’s 50 years? Every GM makes mistakes, and I agree JB made several. However, we do look to have the brightest decade ever coming our way. I would expect the GM, who built that next core, deserves credit. I don’t give any credit to Gillis for the 2010 to 2012 success. That was all Burke and Nonis.

 

[Hodgy]

Does JB get any credit for the best young group of players in our team’s 50 years? Every GM makes mistakes, and I agree JB made several. However, we do look to have the brightest decade ever coming our way. I would expect the GM, who built that next core, deserves credit. I don’t give any credit to Gillis for the 2010 to 2012 success. That was all Burke and Nonis.

Can't you stay on topic? We are discussing the defensemen that Jim Benning has acquired. What's next, we will be discussing Jim Benning's scouting time in Buffalo, or him as a professional player?

 

[Fatass]

He gave up futures for some of the losers he acquired, so it isn't just money.

I think historically it’s a team’s first round picks (with the odd later rounder) that is most important to winning Cups. JB kept his firsts. I do agree he traded seconds for Baer, Vey, Sutter, and Guddy that we should have kept.
Even giving up those seconds, JB has done very well with picks after round one. Plus, his first rounders are all looking to be top players in their roles.

 

[CanaFan]

True, but it’s Aquilini paying the bills, and he extended JB. I understood the retool philosophy, but never agreed with it. I always believed it would be best to keep the Cap at the floor during the years of rebuild, and lower ticket prices to help keep the fans coming. Is there a league rule governing ticket price changes, up or down?

Gudbranson cost a 19 year old former 1st round pick and the 33rd pick in the draft.

I’m not talking bills.

 

[CanaFan]

Does JB get any credit for the best young group of players in our team’s 50 years? Every GM makes mistakes, and I agree JB made several. However, we do look to have the brightest decade ever coming our way. I would expect the GM, who built that next core, deserves credit. I don’t give any credit to Gillis for the 2010 to 2012 success. That was all Burke and Nonis.

How much credit do you give him for picking 5th, 5th, and 7th in a 3 year span?

A lot? A little? Barely any?

 

[Fatass]

Can't you stay on topic? We are discussing the defensemen that Jim Benning has acquired. What's next, we will be discussing Jim Benning's scouting time in Buffalo, or him as a professional player?

Isn’t the topic JB on his radio hit though? During that interview he mentioned a lot of his picks, and how good they are looking to be. I give JB credit for building this current great young group coming up. You’re right about my mind slipping with the Gillis comment.

 

[Hodgy]

I think historically it’s a team’s first round picks (with the odd later rounder) that is most important to winning Cups. JB kept his firsts. I do agree he traded seconds for Baer, Vey, Sutter, and Guddy that we should have kept.
Even giving up those seconds, JB has done very well with picks after round one. Plus, his first rounders are all looking to be top players in their roles.

I think history has proven that good rebuilds are the result of the acquisition of a lot of picks something Jim Benning has failed to grasp. But then again, draft picks are "hard" to acquire according to Benning, which isn't really a reality generally in the NHL, but appears to be one for Jim Benning.

 

[Fatass]

Gudbranson cost a 19 year old former 1st round pick and the 33rd pick in the draft.

I’m not talking bills.

McCann to me was a miss, so no loss. I didn’t like a rebuilding team giving up the high second. With that I agree.

 

[CanaFan]

McCann to me was a miss, so no loss. I didn’t like a rebuilding team giving up the high second. With that I agree.

McCann wasn’t a miss when we traded him away. Hell, he’s still not a miss despite your personal opinion. He outscored Virtanen and we seem to still hold out some hope for him.

And we gave all that up for a defenseman who actually *is* a miss, so there’s that ...

 

[Fatass]

During a rebuild, I want us to pick as high as possible for several years in a row. We need those high picks to build a top level core. I would have preferred JB was up front with our team heading to the bottom though, and lowering ticket prices, instead of that line about competitive for the playoffs, and higher ticket prices.

 

[Fatass]

I think history has proven that good rebuilds are the result of the acquisition of a lot of picks something Jim Benning has failed to grasp. But then again, draft picks are "hard" to acquire according to Benning, which isn't really a reality generally in the NHL, but appears to be one for Jim Benning.

I believe JB’s biggest flaw is his arrogant belief he can draft better than all the other teams with fewer picks. Now, it seems he’s doing pretty well at the draft, but I think we could have even more top prospects pushing each other, which is a good thing.

 

[Fatass]

McCann wasn’t a miss when we traded him away. Hell, he’s still not a miss despite your personal opinion. He outscored Virtanen and we seem to still hold out some hope for him.

And we gave all that up for a defenseman who actually *is* a miss, so there’s that ...

I don’t see McCann, in the role he plays, as a difference maker. I see Jake, in the role he plays, as a difference maker. I totally agree that JB should not have made any trades (like the Gudbranson one) where he gave up his seconder. The four seconders given up for Baer, Vey, Sutter, and Guddy should not have been given up during our rebuild phase. Yet, JB still has amassed a very exciting next core.

 

[CanaFan]

I don’t see McCann, in the role he plays, as a difference maker. I see Jake, in the role he plays, as a difference maker. I totally agree that JB should not have made any trades (like the Gudbranson one) where he gave up his seconder. The four seconders given up for Baer, Vey, Sutter, and Guddy should not have been given up during our rebuild phase. Yet, JB still has amassed a very exciting next core.

I find it hard to believe your view of Virtanen and McCann isn’t significantly influenced by which one is a Canuck and which one isn’t.

 

[Hodgy]

Isn’t the topic JB on his radio hit though? During that interview he mentioned a lot of his picks, and how good they are looking to be. I give JB credit for building this current great young group coming up. You’re right about my mind slipping with the Gillis comment.

We were discussing the defensemen Jim Benning has acquired, and then for no reason at all, you changed the topic to the prospect pool.

 

[Hodgy]

During a rebuild, I want us to pick as high as possible for several years in a row. We need those high picks to build a top level core. I would have preferred JB was up front with our team heading to the bottom though, and lowering ticket prices, instead of that line about competitive for the playoffs, and higher ticket prices.

Basically all the evidence points to Jim Benning trying to compete and failing utterly, resulting in high picks. The Canucks picking high wasn't intentional, it was the result of incompetence. The process is the important part, not the result.

So, do you really want to entrust Jim Benning with trying to build this into a competitive team given that he utterly failed at competing over the past four years? Seems ridiculous.

 

[Fatass]

I find it hard to believe your view of Virtanen and McCann isn’t significantly influenced by which one is a Canuck and which one isn’t.

For sure my views are seen through (homer) rose coloured glasses. It’s helpful for me to read views (like yours) that help clear my
lenses.
I was a very angry fan back during the Gillis era. I was happy with how well the team was doing (of course) but very disappointed with Gillis. I wanted us to rebuild black in 2013. I think that’s why Kessler demanded a trade; he saw our team’s fall coming.
Now I’m more excited for our future than ever. We finally have a great looking young core.

 

[Fatass]

Basically all the evidence points to Jim Benning trying to compete and failing utterly, resulting in high picks. The Canucks picking high wasn't intentional, it was the result of incompetence. The process is the important part, not the result.

So, do you really want to entrust Jim Benning with trying to build this into a competitive team given that he utterly failed at competing over the past four years? Seems ridiculous.

You make a very good point. Maybe JB is the Burke/Nonis who drafts the young core, but we will need a different guy to make the final adjustments (via trades) to supplement the core in order to achieve our best?

 

[CanaFan]

For sure my views are seen through (homer) rose coloured glasses. It’s helpful for me to read views (like yours) that help clear my
lenses.
I was a very angry fan back during the Gillis era. I was happy with how well the team was doing (of course) but very disappointed with Gillis. I wanted us to rebuild black in 2013. I think that’s why Kessler demanded a trade; he saw our team’s fall coming.
Now I’m more excited for our future than ever. We finally have a great looking young core.

Fair enough. You seem to genuinely like the things Benning has done so I guess you really are a Lucky Larry.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

JB has drafted one top player despite this team being horrible for years. He bombed hard on the Virtanen and Juolevi pick. He ran off Tryamkin because he didn't play enough like Chris Pronger. You could have thrown a rock at random at prospects around where JB picked and would have likely done better. I mean, I guess it's great he's cobbled together a couple of young players after literally dozens of chances and this team crashing into a building every season over his entire administration.

 

[racerjoe]

I believe JB’s biggest flaw is his arrogant belief he can draft better than all the other teams with fewer picks. Now, it seems he’s doing pretty well at the draft, but I think we could have even more top prospects pushing each other, which is a good thing.

It is pretty easy to see from any of the draft video's JB does not do most of the drafting. This is clearly done by the staff that Gillis brought in. So I son't understand giving JB a lot of credit here.

For sure my views are seen through (homer) rose coloured glasses. It’s helpful for me to read views (like yours) that help clear my
lenses.
I was a very angry fan back during the Gillis era. I was happy with how well the team was doing (of course) but very disappointed with Gillis. I wanted us to rebuild black in 2013. I think that’s why Kessler demanded a trade; he saw our team’s fall coming.
Now I’m more excited for our future than ever. We finally have a great looking young core.

Gillis wanted to rebuild and was shut down by ownership.