2018 Management Discussion, Pt. II

[y2kcanucks]

Gillis did *some* good things while he was here (Sundin signing, Erhoff trade, Lapierre trade, Torres signing, having a capologist consultant and managing the player’s sleep cycles), but let’s not mistake that with Gillis “building a back to back Presidents trophy winning team from scratch.”

In the end, Gillis handicapped this team in major ways. His complete and utter failure at the draft table, combined with handing out NTC’s and NMC’s like they were candy, are the biggest reasons why Gillis hasn’t been contacted by an NHL team since he was fired, and is why he now works as a professor at UVIC.

When Benning took over this team, Gillis left Benning with nothing.

When Gillis took over from Nonis in 2008, he was being gifted young horses that were about to turn into well Stallions.

Those NTC's were given out to sign those players below market value. Unlike Jim Benning who gives out NTC's while also paying full price for his signings. Let's not ignore that fact.

Gillis left Benning with Bo Horvat, a 6th overall pick, Ben Hutton, Jacob Markstrom, and a lot of cap space. He left Benning with a team that was in perfect position to initiate a rebuild. Instead, Benning came in here talking about how much he liked this team and with a few tweaks he could make the playoffs. Gillis's core made the playoffs in Benning's first here on the backs of the Sedins and Eddie Lack's goaltending, but the bottom fell out the following year. Benning continued to try to push for the playoffs and has failed every year since.

And he still hasn't started to rebuild.

 

[CanaFan]

Benning saw the shot, took the shot, and missed.

If the same situation occurs again in the future, Benning should take the shot again because it was the correct play to make.

He just spent $12M "taking the shot again". Go read what hockey analysts outside of Vancouver think of his July 1st.

 

[CanaFan]

He's feeding me CanaFan's incorrect interpretation of my argument back to me and I'm laughing at it.

What did I interpret incorrectly?

 

[CanaFan]

Wow...that is brilliant.....if Benning has a shot he should take it.......
First he has to develop a team that isn’t competing for the 1st overall pick.

Yep, if your first mistake doesn't work then keep making the same mistake over and over. Sounds like HindustanSmyl would fit in beautifully on the Benning management team of YesMen.

 

[Hit the post]

Garth Snow gets you pretty close there.

Maybe Jets as well?

But both of those teams I don't think had teams that spent to the cap (and then some) - eg., internal (lower) cap set by the owner.

 

[RandV]

Maybe Jets as well?

But both of those teams I don't think had teams that spent to the cap (and then some) - eg., internal (lower) cap set by the owner.

Yes the Jets and Islanders both used and succeeded with the same type of patient rebuild, except the Isles sputtered out and fell flat while the Jets appear to be taking off. The isles failures is almost entirely due to missing on high 1sts following the Tavares draft: Niederreiter (5th), R.Strome (5th), G.Reinhart (4th), Pulock*(15), Dal Colle(5th). Apart from Pulock who was a decent pick from the first season Snow's team made the playoffs, Isles could be a very different team the last few seasons if you replace the Strome, Renihart, and Dal Colle picks with Couturier, Reilly, and Ehlers. Which is basically what the Jets did.

 

[Peter10]

Oh boy its getting even funnier. Now Beagle, Roussel and Schaller will apparently also create more offense.

 

[geebaan]

Oh boy its getting even funnier. Now Beagle, Roussel and Schaller will apparently also create more offense.

He thinks he signed Roussel and Beagle for offensive purposes.

Holy f***ing shit what an absolute moron.

 

[Foundational Player]

Benning on 1040 today preaching the importance of leadership and character when discussing the Beagle acquisition.

Why neglect acquiring skill when you can have big forwards who are fast, strong along the boards and have great cycle games?

Problem is these bottom 6 free agent signings won't be controlling the puck rather trying to shut down the opposition from scoring.

He seems content with whom the team targeted this summer. I agree the team needs to improve on the PK and in the face-off circle but I find it confusing that at team that had troubles scoring addressed leadership, penalty killing ability, grit/physicality yadda yadda yadda but nothing towards improving the offense?

Donny and Moj with the hardball question of whether or not Jim Benning had ridden a horse before? Benning said yes.

I have also ridden a horse before but man what a pointless question from a local station. Good job boys....

 

[y2kcanucks]

Oh boy its getting even funnier. Now Beagle, Roussel and Schaller will apparently also create more offense.

Key word being "hopefully." Benning is hoping that this happens, just like he hopes he'll have a good hockey team next year. We all know the reality is none of those things will happen.

 

[Melvin]

Oh boy its getting even funnier. Now Beagle, Roussel and Schaller will apparently also create more offense.

Botchford made this point a while ago, but how is there such a disconnect between the pro scouting and the amateur scouting?

 

[Cancuks]

As we all know, big players are immune from injury.

 

[Fire Benning]

Oh boy its getting even funnier. Now Beagle, Roussel and Schaller will apparently also create more offense.

Benning is an atrociously bad judge of talent. Wow.

 

[TruGr1t]

Once again you don't have to favour offensively challenged grinders to get "character and leadership." Arguably, the best "mentor" type move this regime has made is Thomas Vanek and he is polar opposite to their usual acquisitions: offensive, cheap, and short term.

 

[rypper]

How much longer and how many more NTC does Benning have to give out before that can't be a talking point anymore for people looking to discount Gillis and his time as GM? It has to be getting close. Especially when you factor in that Gillis always got cap savings from his NTC's, Benning has not.

 

[RandV]

How much longer and how many more NTC does Benning have to give out before that can't be a talking point anymore for people looking to discount Gillis and his time as GM? It has to be getting close. Especially when you factor in that Gillis always got cap savings from his NTC's, Benning has not.

Not to mention we were a contending team and players getting the NTC's were core members of that group, the same thing that happens with nearly every other contender.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

How much longer and how many more NTC does Benning have to give out before that can't be a talking point anymore for people looking to discount Gillis and his time as GM? It has to be getting close. Especially when you factor in that Gillis always got cap savings from his NTC's, Benning has not.

Only players with full NTC's are Edler (given by Gillis)...Eriksson, and Sutter (which turns into a modified NTC after this season)

...but Benning and all the NTC's he's handing out...yada,yada...

 

[Hit the post]

Only players with full NTC's are Edler (given by Gillis)...Eriksson, and Sutter (which turns into a modified NTC after this season)

...but Benning and all the NTC's he's handing out...yada,yada...

because...yada....yada....yada, the other GM got SOME cap savings by handing out NTCs while this GM hands out NTCs (full or not) while still paying a slight to much higher premium.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Only players with full NTC's are Edler (given by Gillis)...Eriksson, and Sutter (which turns into a modified NTC after this season)

...but Benning and all the NTC's he's handing out...yada,yada...

NTC's/NMC's given out by Benning:

-Vrbata
-Miller
-Sutter
-Eriksson (NMC)
-Beagle
-Roussel
-Tanev

But yeah, continue ignoring reality like you usually do.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

NTC's/NMC's given out by Benning:

-Vrbata
-Miller
-Sutter
-Eriksson (NMC)
-Beagle
-Roussel
-Tanev

But yeah, continue ignoring reality like you usually do.

-Eriksson (NTC)
- Sutter(NTC).. full NTC.ends after this season
.........
-Beagle (LNTC)
-Roussel (LNTC)
-Tanev (LNTC)

The other guys are long gone

 

[timw33]

The other guys are long gone

Why does that matter in this discussion? He still has given out plenty of NTCs–in many forms–to completely marginal players.

If you're insinuating that it doesn't matter now that they are no longer with the team, than none of the NTCs from the Gillis era should be detrimental as they are no longer with the team.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Why does that matter in this discussion? He still has given out plenty of NTCs–in many forms–to completely marginal players.

If you're insinuating that it doesn't matter now that they are no longer with the team, than none of the NTCs from the Gillis era should be detrimental as they are no longer with the team.

Sure...but I was initially responding to another poster who was talking about all the NTC's Benning is handing out.?..(which he isn't..there's a considerable difference between a full NTC and a LNTC)...I mean,lets just make a mountain out of a mole hill..Obviously,its just more peeps trying to find a crisis where there isn't one.

 

[y2kcanucks]

-Eriksson (NTC)
- Sutter(NTC).. full NTC.ends after this season
.........
-Beagle (LNTC)
-Roussel (LNTC)
-Tanev (LNTC)

The other guys are long gone

Okay. So 5 NTC's vs. 1 from Gillis (since Gillis's other ones are long gone). What's your point?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

because...yada....yada....yada, the other GM got SOME cap savings by handing out NTCs while this GM hands out NTCs (full or not) while still paying a slight to much higher premium.

I think its pretty obvious that a bottom 5 team will have to pay a premium..The Canucks can afford to have a bottom heavy lineup for a few years..In 3-4 years they will most likely have to buck up for Petterson/Hughes...Works out fine.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Okay. So 5 NTC's vs. 1 from Gillis (since Gillis's other ones are long gone). What's your point?

Its in response to ryppers question....How much longer.....etc...Then you barged in.