2018 Management Discussion, Pt. II

[Pavel96]

Not really understanding the folk hero lore surrounding Brackett.

I guess compared to Benning, he looks like a gem. Like when you hang out with an unattractive friend as to appear hotter yourself.

 

[Bleach Clean]

There were red flags in last year's draft video too. People shrugged them off as him trying to speak Benning's language to him.

I don't think he's a complete idiot but I don't really understand this weird sort of mythos surrounding him on this board.

One reason could be the progression of Boeser, Pettersson and now the drafting of Hughes. For good or ill, those prospects afford him a lot of credit. Lockwood and Gaudette also help in this regard.

I certainly have a positive opinion of Brackett, but this last video, it's not flattering.

 

[kanuck87]

Sorry, but am I missing from that draft video that paints an unflattering picture of Brackett (or even Benning and Weisbrod, for that matter)? I'm not really seeing anything that's concerning.

 

[Melvin]

Sorry, but am I missing from that draft video that paints an unflattering picture of Brackett (or even Benning and Weisbrod, for that matter)? I'm not really seeing anything that's concerning.

It's more the complete absense of anything that makes him much different from Weisbrod, and why he is like some sort of legend on this board.

 

[kanuck87]

It's more the complete absense of anything that makes him much different from Weisbrod, and why he is like some sort of legend on this board.

What kind of a person would you prefer Brackett to be?

 

[Melvin]

What kind of a person would you prefer Brackett to be?

I don't understand the question.

 

[kanuck87]

I don't understand the question.

How is Brackett not any different than Weisbrod?

 

[Melvin]

How is Brackett not any different than Weisbrod?

Based on the evidence as opposed to the folklore, they seem similar to me.

I am both not as low on Weisbrod as the board and not as high on Brackett.

 

[kanuck87]

Based on the evidence as opposed to the folklore, they seem similar to me.

I am both not as low on Weisbrod as the board and not as high on Brackett.

What evidence are you alluding to? I asked what specifically in the video (or anywhere really) that Brackett did/said that concerns people, and I seemed to have gotten the run-around here.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

You're not missing anything.I'm neutral,not a Benning bro or hater.It just seems to me the Benning haters are completely blinded by hate and are incapable of making an intelligible argument.It just seems to me that the Benning bro's are eloquently rational in their arguments while the Benning Bashers have about the same rationality as a pack of howler monkey's.The Benning bro's do seem like they have SOME kind of education, while the egomaniacal Benning bashers seem incoherently nonsenseical.Again i'm completely neutral and give a glimpse into how outsiders perceive Benning Hatering megalomaniacs.Blinded with Benning OCD,they would benefit from a riddlin prescription like a petulant 5 year that was just proven wrong....AGAIN.

You forgot to tell your full alignment:

 

[Kryten]

These are so good lol

Its like if M2B was 50 years old with 20 years psychology teaching tenure, then Y2K caused his divorce

 

[Melvin]

What evidence are you alluding to? I asked what specifically in the video (or anywhere really) that Brackett did/said that concerns people, and I seemed to have gotten the run-around here.

I never said there was anything negative, just thst there was nothing positive that justifies his general reputation.

This video had basically nothing except that he wanted to take a goalie and was thankfully overruled.

Last year's video had a lot of nonsense gibberish akin to the stuff Weisbrod says.

I just don't really get it. Even Benning's harshest critics seems to be in love with this man. I simply am trying to understand the hype.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Benning, as suspected, seems totally indecisive. In reality, he seems reduced to a cheerleader and immediately seeks out Brackett's advise on most everything and then follows it..

The other point is that the Canucks seem to initiate nothing. Other teams are jockeying around and trying to make moves involving the Canucks, while the Canucks have seemingly little to no strategy and simply sit back and just let things unfold as they might. This view seems confirmed by the the management inaction in trying to use cap space or do anything that involves some creative or proactive thinking.

Benning seems very unsure of himself ( and probably rightfully so given his perceived lack of intelligence). This confirms the opinion that Benning is in over his head and is mostly reduced to hoping things somehow work out. I think his hope is that those around him will somehow bail him out. Linden seems in much the same position.

Another issue I have is the way management of this team simply takes time off. Seems like most of the management group has now simply gone on vacation. And last year Benning went off for a few weeks to see to family matters in the period prior to the trade deadline. In previous years, they started so late in the process of moving players at the deadline (such as with Hamhuis and Vrbata) that they ended with nothing or close to it.

Would also say that some here crediting Benning with assembling a fantastic group of prospects are way ahead of themselves (and even if that is true, given the video and other evidence, the credit for drafting prospects should probably go elsewhere)


As to some other aspects of this thread, I believe some posters have already and prematurely concluded that many of our prospects are sure fire NHL stars. But this must remain open to question. Of our prospects, I say the following

The only one of the high end prospects that has proven himself at the North American pro level is Demko. I think you can be fairly certain he turns out to be an NHL player. How good he will be, however, remains unclear.

I think it is reasonable to have some hope for Pettersson and Hughes but right now you can only have hope. Both are, by pro hockey standards, very physically weak. Whether they can overcome that is wide open to question.

Also is Dahlen any better then Baertschi??? At the same age, Baertschi appeared to be the better player. Baertschi was a tremendous Junior player and a much higher draft. Maybe Dahlen never even gets to Baertschi's level which even now is very marginal top 6 .

Goldobin remains a big question mark in many aspects of his game. Gaudette skating needs to improve. Joulevi still lingers far too close to the bust status and has certainly been a disappointment to date.

The point here is that some fans (I guess wanting some positives to cling to) are far to ready to credit the Canucks with having amassed this can't miss group of prospects. But there are still huge developments that must take place to make such predictions pan out. And beyond that, using such hopes to justify the Benning/Linden regime doesn't recognize enough that the team should have some decent prospects given their terrible standing of last several years. Indeed they should probably have better group of prospects than they do given their extremely poor results.

Based on what we have seen out of this management group to date, and not on some hopeful yet to be realized projections about younger players, I think you have to be critical.

Look at the check list:

Have they got value for existing assets at the trade deadline and elsewhere during the season. Outside of maybe the Hansen and Burrows deals (still iffy) - NO. could make a long list of assets that were frittered away for nothing.

Have they made good signings. NO - just look at Eriksson, Gagner, etc. Best might have been Vanek but he was let go for practically nothing. And with the signings this year there may well be some clunkers on the way.

Have they made good trades. NO. Can't think of one significant player that was brought in thru trade. Most of the trades have been little more than shuffling around the deck chairs on the Titanic. And in far too many cases they have given up draft choices or prospects which ultimately became the most important thing in the trade.

Have they overpaid for players. Absolutely YES. There are any number of examples and Benning seems committed to keeping this up.

Has the team improved in the standings. NO. And there is every reason to believe that they won't any time soon.

Have they selected good coaches. Hard to say as far Green goes but Willie was a complete disaster. Hounded the younger players and, along with the idiotic Lidster, drove Tryamkin back to Russia.

And as far as the drafting goes, the results have been a mixed bag. Right now the drafting of Virtanen and Joulevi appear outright misses given the draft position. Boeser was good pick and there is some hope for the future. Seems to me that's pretty thin reed to hang your case on for asserting the success of the present Canuck leadership group.

It is my opinion that this team will continue to drift along until Benning, Linden and the rest of the alumni that populated the various positions in team management are shown the door and replaced by hockey people who are dedicated and intelligent enough to improve the situation.

Quoted for ruthlessly cold-blooded truth.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I never said there was anything negative, just thst there was nothing positive that justifies his general reputation.

This video had basically nothing except that he wanted to take a goalie and was thankfully overruled.

Last year's video had a lot of nonsense gibberish akin to the stuff Weisbrod says.

I just don't really get it. Even Benning's harshest critics seems to be in love with this man. I simply am trying to understand the hype.

The secret to my success as a ladies man, low standards Melvin. Low standards.

This is what we are used to:

Ron Delorme, Canucks head scout 2000-2012

His resume, when compared to other NHL clubs, during that time span:

• The most drafts in which their selections failed to combine for 50 career NHL games played.
• The most drafts in which their selections failed to combine for 100 career NHL games played.
• The most drafts in which their selections failed to combine for 250 career NHL games played.

1st rounder hit rate: 5 / 12 ... 6 / 12 if you count Gaunce as a success.

Boeser is probably the pick that gets him the most slack where as he loses some of it with Juolevi. Gaudette, Jasek, and the 2017 draft look very promising. Time will obviously tell. All drafts look fantastic before you give the players time to bust.

 

[Melvin]

The secret to my success as a ladies man, low standards Melvin. Low standards.

This is what we are used to:

Ron Delorme, Canucks head scout 2000-2012

His resume, when compared to other NHL clubs, during that time span:

• The most drafts in which their selections failed to combine for 50 career NHL games played.
• The most drafts in which their selections failed to combine for 100 career NHL games played.
• The most drafts in which their selections failed to combine for 250 career NHL games played.

1st rounder hit rate: 5 / 12 ... 6 / 12 if you count Gaunce as a success.

Boeser is probably the pick that gets him the most slack where as he loses some of it with Juolevi. Gaudette, Jasek, and the 2017 draft look very promising. Time will obviously tell. All drafts look fantastic before you give the players time to bust.

I get this, and this post is worthy of a like.

I actually forgot that Brackett was only "head of scouting" and not an AGM. As he is not an AGM as Weisbrod is, it is unfair for me to compare the two.

It is fair however for me to compare him to Eric Crawford, and I am unconvinced that this is a significant upgrade.

But point taken and I do retract some of my original statements.

 

[kanuck87]

Boeser is probably the pick that gets him the most slack where as he loses some of it with Juolevi. Gaudette, Jasek, and the 2017 draft look very promising. Time will obviously tell. All drafts look fantastic before you give the players time to bust.

I give him a lot of credit for our American-born draftees simply because it's his backyard and listening to him talk about Rathbone and Madden in the last two draft videos, it's clear that he knows what's going on with the American-born players. The recent draft record speaks for itself.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I get this, and this post is worthy of a like.

I actually forgot that Brackett was only "head of scouting" and not an AGM. As he is not an AGM as Weisbrod is, it is unfair for me to compare the two.

It is fair however for me to compare him to Eric Crawford, and I am unconvinced that this is a significant upgrade.

But point taken and I do retract some of my original statements.

I somehow forgot that 2008 - 2013 was Eric's reign. They did some funky title swapparoozky that hides the fact that Delorme wasn't running the show anymore.

(5min later)

Took a peak at what we got during that time;
Hodgson, Hutton, Gaunce and Horvat. Thats pretty much it.

I like the fact that Brackett seems to have an appreciation advanced stats. Pettersson was a pick that would get pushed down the draft board via the Delorme method of "Does he practice hard?" and is he a good Canadian kid? etc. But gets pushed way the f*** up if you look at things like SEAL adjusted scoring.

But yeah... Time will tell.

 

[sting101]

Brackett is doing great.

Retired H.Sedin D.Sedin Dorsett will be replaced by Pettersson Leipsic/Goldobin Roussel.

Dowd Gaunce replaced by Beagle Schaller

1yr deals:
Granlund-Gaudette Goldobin/Leipsic-Dahlen Hutton-Juolevi Pouliot-Hughes Del Zotto-??? Edler-??? Nilsson-Demko
2yrs:
Gagner-Lind Schaller-Gadjovich

Where is this lack of opportunity or blockage that many speak of?

We are harder to play against physically and have some really nice prospects that are now in the pro stages with opportunity.

Why so negative?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Brackett is doing great.

Retired H.Sedin D.Sedin Dorsett will be replaced by Pettersson Leipsic/Goldobin Roussel.

Dowd Gaunce replaced by Beagle Schaller

1yr deals:
Granlund-Gaudette Goldobin/Leipsic-Dahlen Hutton-Juolevi Pouliot-Hughes Del Zotto-??? Edler-??? Nilsson-Demko
2yrs:
Gagner-Lind Schaller-Gadjovich

Where is this lack of opportunity or blockage that many speak of?

We are harder to play against physically and have some really nice prospects that are now in the pro stages with opportunity.

Why so negative?

None of Russell, Beagle, Schaller, Sutter, Eriksson, Gudbranson or Gagner are "rising stocks." Or players with a future as part of our rebuilding core.

Do you notice that most of the players you listed ARE the prospects, not the plugs. The plugs have term.

 

[sting101]

None of Russell, Beagle, Schaller, Sutter, Eriksson, Gudbranson or Gagner are "rising stocks." Or players with a future as part of our rebuilding core.

Do you notice that most of the players you listed ARE the prospects, not the plugs. The plugs have term.

Who are they blocking?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Who are they blocking?

You Benning haters keep on underestimating the prospect pool he has amassed.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Who are they blocking?

Sting, do you fully expect Goldobin, Gaudette, Granlund, Leipsic and Gaunce to make the team out of camp?

 

[RandV]

I somehow forgot that 2008 - 2013 was Eric's reign. They did some funky title swapparoozky that hides the fact that Delorme wasn't running the show anymore.

Just calling Gillis' tenure "Eric's reign"... that's a highly inaccurate statement

Looking at our scouting heads with some liberty reading between the lines, the more accurate picture would be:

2000-2009 - Ron Delorme
2010 - ditch all the draft picks and transition year
2011-2014 - Eric Crawford
2015-2016 - Weisbrod transition years
2017-ongoing - Judd Bracket

Doing a quick google search this article has a lot of the relevant information.

 

[F A N]

Benning, as suspected, seems totally indecisive. In reality, he seems reduced to a cheerleader and immediately seeks out Brackett's advise on most everything and then follows it.

You suspect that Benning is indecisive? Based on what? Based on his early reputation for wheeling and dealing? Based on the perception that Benning goes hard after the player he likes? Based on the criticism that he overpays for players he likes? Seems to me like an indecisive guy would just waffle about and not go out and get the guy that he wants.

And how is letting Brackett decide being indecisive? He seemed pretty decisive in that video. Did you get the impression that he was hesitating about picking a goalie with his one and only 3rd? Did you get the impression that Benning was reduced to being a cheerleader when he said he wasn't taking a goalie? Weird.

He is clearly letting Brackett run the draft. This isn't an unusual practice. Plenty of GMs talk about how their scouts influenced the decision to trade up or down or simply keeping the pick because that is their day. Benning has an opinion and checks with Wall (value), Weisbrod (his AGM), and Brackett (his Director of Amateur Scouting). Is this not what you want your AGM to do? Consult his staff? It's weird that you interpret that as being totally indecisive and being reduced to a cheerleader.

The other point is that the Canucks seem to initiate nothing. Other teams are jockeying around and trying to make moves involving the Canucks, while the Canucks have seemingly little to no strategy and simply sit back and just let things unfold as they might. This view seems confirmed by the the management inaction in trying to use cap space or do anything that involves some creative or proactive thinking.

Did you watch last year's video where Benning was clearly shown "initiating?" Benning did say he tried to move back into the first round (perhaps that's what the Dubas conversation is about?) Regardless, if moving back into the first round fails, at 37, they apparently had 3 guys targeted. I don't know what the big deal is if they didn't look to trade down from that pick. That's a premium pick that they expect or have a pretty good feeling that a good player will be available to be selected. As for the 3rd round pick, Brackett clearly liked Madden who Brackett expected to be there at 68. Again, for me, outside of trading up for a player they really like or trading down if the player they really like is gone, I much prefer that their default position is to select a player with their pick in the first 3-4 rounds.

Benning seems very unsure of himself ( and probably rightfully so given his perceived lack of intelligence). This confirms the opinion that Benning is in over his head and is mostly reduced to hoping things somehow work out. I think his hope is that those around him will somehow bail him out. Linden seems in much the same position.

You do realize that you throw out your own personal opinion as if it's a fact and draw a conclusion from it right? Benning is over his head at the draft table? Based on the fact that he quickly checks with Wall first to see where the picks are at and whether it's good value based on statistical data?

Another issue I have is the way management of this team simply takes time off. Seems like most of the management group has now simply gone on vacation. And last year Benning went off for a few weeks to see to family matters in the period prior to the trade deadline. In previous years, they started so late in the process of moving players at the deadline (such as with Hamhuis and Vrbata) that they ended with nothing or close to it.

And you got this from the video? How?

Ya Benning "took time off" to be with his wife when his wife's mother and best friend passed away. WTF is your problem?

 

[ProstheticConscience]

You suspect that Benning is indecisive? Based on what? Based on his early reputation for wheeling and dealing? Based on the perception that Benning goes hard after the player he likes? Based on the criticism that he overpays for players he likes? Seems to me like an indecisive guy would just waffle about and not go out and get the guy that he wants.

And how is letting Brackett decide being indecisive? He seemed pretty decisive in that video. Did you get the impression that he was hesitating about picking a goalie with his one and only 3rd? Did you get the impression that Benning was reduced to being a cheerleader when he said he wasn't taking a goalie? Weird.

He is clearly letting Brackett run the draft. This isn't an unusual practice. Plenty of GMs talk about how their scouts influenced the decision to trade up or down or simply keeping the pick because that is their day. Benning has an opinion and checks with Wall (value), Weisbrod (his AGM), and Brackett (his Director of Amateur Scouting). Is this not what you want your AGM to do? Consult his staff? It's weird that you interpret that as being totally indecisive and being reduced to a cheerleader.



Did you watch last year's video where Benning was clearly shown "initiating?" Benning did say he tried to move back into the first round (perhaps that's what the Dubas conversation is about?) Regardless, if moving back into the first round fails, at 37, they apparently had 3 guys targeted. I don't know what the big deal is if they didn't look to trade down from that pick. That's a premium pick that they expect or have a pretty good feeling that a good player will be available to be selected. As for the 3rd round pick, Brackett clearly liked Madden who Brackett expected to be there at 68. Again, for me, outside of trading up for a player they really like or trading down if the player they really like is gone, I much prefer that their default position is to select a player with their pick in the first 3-4 rounds.



You do realize that you throw out your own personal opinion as if it's a fact and draw a conclusion from it right? Benning is over his head at the draft table? Based on the fact that he quickly checks with Wall first to see where the picks are at and whether it's good value based on statistical data?



And you got this from the video? How?

Ya Benning "took time off" to be with his wife when his wife's mother and best friend passed away. WTF is your problem?

Anything to say to the rest of his post?