2018 Management Discussion, Pt. II

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Askel

By the way Benning should be fired.
Apr 19, 2004
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The problem with this statement is Belanger and Hordichuk always were marginal NHLers who mostly stunk. Beagle Roussel and Schaller were well liked by their fans and pretty well regarded as good bottom6 NHLers.
Belanger had seasons of 37 its in 65 games and a 40 pt season in Pheonix. Beagle reached 30 its once in his career, Russell has never had 30 its.

Belanger was a better NHL player than Beagle is.
 

tantalum

Hope for the best. Expect the worst
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Apr 2, 2002
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The kids may very well light it up. The team will still be at the bottom of the standings because two or three players don't make a team.
 

MS

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The problem with this statement is Belanger and Hordichuk always were marginal NHLers who mostly stunk. Beagle Roussel and Schaller were well liked by their fans and pretty well regarded as good bottom6 NHLers.

What?

Belanger played over 800 NHL games, averaged over 40 points/82 GP from 2002-2011, and has more career points that Beagle, Roussel, and Schaller *combined*. He was a better player in his prime than our recent signings by a mile.

Hordichuk sucked obviously, but signing overpriced guys on the downside of their careers like Belanger and Ference for their leadership and mentoring is basically identical to what we're doing now.
 

Fire Benning

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The problem with this statement is Belanger and Hordichuk always were marginal NHLers who mostly stunk. Beagle Roussel and Schaller were well liked by their fans and pretty well regarded as good bottom6 NHLers.

Belanger was Beagle's current age when he signed with the Oilers and had played over 700 NHL games and had a career PPG of almost 0.5, compare that to Beagle who at 33 has played 245 less games with a career points per game of 0.25.
 
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sting101

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What?

Belanger played over 800 NHL games, averaged over 40 points/82 GP from 2002-2011, and has more career points that Beagle, Roussel, and Schaller *combined*. He was a better player in his prime than our recent signings by a mile.

Hordichuk sucked obviously, but signing overpriced guys on the downside of their careers like Belanger and Ference for their leadership and mentoring is basically identical to what we're doing now.
Sure if you want to just look up pts. Belanger was the ultimate tweener just like Gagner Granlund sre . Small somewhat crafty guy who played a 2/3 C role on bad teams. 7 of them as he bounced around and by the time he got to Edmonton he was no longer an effective scorer and skater and wasn't a btm 6 guy...............hence the reason he completely sucked in any role.

Roussel and Beagle are without a doubt at 4 yrs terrible signings but for the first couple years barring injury should be effective players at what they do unlike Hordichuk and Belanger who would be like signing Sam Gagner at 34 to a multi year extension.

Anyways its semantics. I always thought Belannger sucked and as you know Hordichuk was a useless face puncher who had some of the worst skills of any NHLer.

The contracts are pathetic ...................carry on
 

Fire Benning

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The Oilers signed Boyd Gordon in the summer of 2013 with the hopes that he'd fill a hole in the bottom six as a checking center who could play tough defensive minutes, kill penalties and win faceoffs. Exactly the same things that are being parroted about the Beagle signing, and Gordon was 4 years younger then Beagle when he was signed. "But we're trying to avoid becoming the Oilers!!"

Boyd Gordon not about flash for the Edmonton Oilers
 
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FroshaugFan2

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Under the heading of Defence Never Rests -

Tambellini then finished off the day by reeling perhaps his biggest free agent catch, centre Eric Belanger.

After finishing dead last in face-off percentage the last two seasons, the Oilers get a guy in Belanger who was over 55% this season and capable of being a top penalty killer as well as chipping in offensively.

Belanger’s addition suddenly gives the Oilers depth and options at centre, a re-occurring theme of the week.

Stauffer Stuff: Oil Change

Does anyone still have the video that the Oilers put out to prop up the Belanger signing? They were talking about how his "advanced stats" were so great and how he wouldn't decline, and then it cut to his shot blocking, hits, and faceoff numbers.
 

MS

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Sure if you want to just look up pts. Belanger was the ultimate tweener just like Gagner Granlund sre . Small somewhat crafty guy who played a 2/3 C role on bad teams. 7 of them as he bounced around and by the time he got to Edmonton he was no longer an effective scorer and skater and wasn't a btm 6 guy...............hence the reason he completely sucked in any role.

Roussel and Beagle are without a doubt at 4 yrs terrible signings but for the first couple years barring injury should be effective players at what they do unlike Hordichuk and Belanger who would be like signing Sam Gagner at 34 to a multi year extension.

Anyways its semantics. I always thought Belannger sucked and as you know Hordichuk was a useless face puncher who had some of the worst skills of any NHLer.

The contracts are pathetic ...................carry on

Belanger wasn't Sam Gagner.

The guy played tough defensive minutes and was a PK staple and faceoff ace on his teams for close to a decade. While churning out 40 point seasons.

He was a very solid player and a hell of a lot better in his prime than the guys we signed. That said, yes, by the time Edmonton threw a huge contract at him, he was done.
 

ATypicalCanadian

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There goes a lot of myths of JBFC...


Going through the video:

Right out of the gate we can see they had Hughes over Zadina and you can notice Brackett didn't even hesitate in who he wanted.

They had a offers from:

Some kind of inquiry from Toronto seen with Dubas and Benning talking with Benning saying they're keeping the pick. Return is a unknown.

Minnesota offering 63 and 86 for pick #37 which we used on Woo and would have done it if Woo was taken.

St. Louis called last minute to see if 37 was available and was turned away since Woo was available.

LA called offering their 4th(113) and 5th(144) for 68 and they decided they'd rather have Madden. Checked in if they'd do their 3rd(82) and 5th(144). LA declined

And then the offer of swapping 6ths with Washington to acquire their 2019 6th which went through.
 
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RandV

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In all fairness if there was one timeline altering magic trick it was turning Bertuzzi with his HUGE baggage in to the best goaltender this franchise has ever seen. If that trick doesn't happen, Gillis' team is not in the finals vs Boston. I firmly believe that.

I think that's actually in interesting topic. It's all hindsight and wasn't apparent at the time, but for the 2010-11 season Schneider was 24 years old with 3 AHL seasons under his belt, playing 36, 40, and 60 games respectively. Under any normal circumstances, like when you don't already have an in his prime top 3 starter, Schneider would have been promoted to starter by that point instead of the backup (25GP, .929 sv%).

Luongo was the better goalie, but Schneider was still damn good and considering how strong our team was could have carried us just as well. But considering Luongo's proneness for epic playoff meltdowns. So you have to wonder that if we could have made it to the finals riding Schneider, with no epic Lu meltdown maybe we take a game in Boston and win the Cup?
 
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Bleach Clean

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Going through the video:

Right out of the gate we can see they had Hughes over Zadina and you can notice Brackett didn't even hesitate in who he wanted.

They had a offers from:

Some kind of inquiry from Toronto seen with Dubas and Benning talking with Benning saying they're keeping the pick. Return is a unknown.

Minnesota offering 63 and 86 for pick #37 which we used on Woo and would have done it if Woo was taken.

St. Louis called last minute to see if 37 was available and was turned away since Woo was available.

LA called offering their 4th(113) and 5th(144) for 68 and they decided they'd rather have Madden. Checked in if they'd do their 3rd(82) and 5th(144). LA declined

And then the offer of swapping 6ths with Washington to acquire their 2019 6th which went through.


Good summary.

Brackett had Hughes ahead of Zadina, and Woo as a coveted prospect in the 2nd. The first decision, I just don't know. I probably would have taken Zadina there, but it's close. The second decision, yeah, I don't agree with Brackett there.

Wonder who St. Louis was after, their Perunovich pick was astute.

The Dubas interaction was probably about Tanev. Looks like they didn't want to give up the pick for him.

The Madden hype seems a bit overboard with this group.

This video has me questioning Brackett. He's definitely not infallible.
 
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Jyrki21

2021-12-05
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Going through the video:

Right out of the gate we can see they had Hughes over Zadina and you can notice Brackett didn't even hesitate in who he wanted.
The quote from Weisbrod about wanting to go up if it's Quinn, the fist-pump when Detroit selected the third-overall ranked player, etc., suggests that Weisbrod's prior relationship with the Hughes family was out there and an issue to some extent actually gives me a bit of a worried feeling that maybe they weren't looking at it 100% objectively. The fact that they had Hughes ranked ahead of Zadina, when pretty much no one else did, also makes me wonder. I mean no question he is a huge talent, but it's just little stuff like that from this group that puts me a little less at ease.

There goes a lot of myths of JBFC...
You have to wonder what value Benning even brings to this process, his supposed strength, when he basically just defers to everyone else the entire time. And I also agree that Brackett comes off looking maybe a little less enlightened than we had originally hoped, but he could also be playing to his audience a bit.
 
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ATypicalCanadian

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Good summary.

Brackett had Hughes ahead of Zadina, and Woo as a coveted prospect in the 2nd. The first decision, I just don't know. I probably would have taken Zadina there, but it's close. The second decision, yeah, I don't agree with Brackett there.

Wonder who St. Louis was after, their Perunovich pick was astute.

The Dubas interaction was probably about Tanev. Looks like they didn't want to give up the pick for him.

The Madden hype seems a bit overboard with this group.

This video has me questioning Brackett. He's definitely not infallible.

The way the video is shown leads me to believe it was about our second just because the clips are put together to show Benning on the phone, proceeding to talk to Dubas and finally telling the Canucks table he told a GM (Dubas ?)they're keeping "it"(a draft pick)

Regarding Tanev though I do think if Toronto does want him it can't hurt to have Gilman telling the Leafs how Benning thinks. It could also be clever editing though honestly so they don't accidentally set the fanbase on a war path finding out we could have got another first.
 

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You have to wonder what value Benning even brings to this process, his supposed strength, when he basically just defers to everyone else the entire time. And I also agree that Brackett comes off looking maybe a little less enlightened than we had originally hoped, but he could also be playing to his audience a bit.

This has been my point time and again. The only thing this administration has done a halfway decent job of is drafting. The thing is.....this really has nothing to do with Dim. This is the work of Bracket and perhaps to a lesser extend the Broad.
 

thefeebster

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Minnesota offering 63 and 86 for pick #37 which we used on Woo and would have done it if Woo was taken.

St. Louis called last minute to see if 37 was available and was turned away since Woo was available.

LA called offering their 4th(113) and 5th(144) for 68 and they decided they'd rather have Madden. Checked in if they'd do their 3rd(82) and 5th(144). LA declined

And then the offer of swapping 6ths with Washington to acquire their 2019 6th which went through.
Is it just me or were some of these failed trades a blessing in disguise?

37 for 63+86 seems like too much of a trade down for me. Trading out of the 2nd completely, while giving up a high 2nd??

68 for 113+144, again way too low. Trading out of the 3rd, moving down 45 spots to get a mid 5th? Value isn't there. They were right to ask for 82+144. IMO, that's more reasonable. For example, CHI received 74 for 87+142. Then Arizona flipped 87 for 114+145.

I actually don't mind the 6th round trade, but bleh on their target.
 
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ATypicalCanadian

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Is it just me or were some of these failed trades a blessing in disguise?

37 for 63+86 seems like too much of a trade down for me. Trading out of the 2nd completely, while giving up a high 2nd??

68 for 113+144, again way too low. Trading out of the 3rd, moving down 45 spots to get a mid 5th? Value isn't there. They were right to ask for 82+144. IMO, that's more reasonable. For example, CHI received 74 for 87+142. Then Arizona flipped 87 for 114+145.

I actually don't mind the 6th round trade, but bleh on their target.

Teams probably identified us as a candidate to try and offer lower value to when they looked at the # of picks we had compared to teams in a similar situation like the Red Wings. Go to the team with less currency in draft picks with the early picks vs the teams who had the more picks in the draft and can afford to sit back and just draft
 
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Frankie Blueberries

Allergic to draft picks
Jan 27, 2016
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Going through the video:

Right out of the gate we can see they had Hughes over Zadina and you can notice Brackett didn't even hesitate in who he wanted.

They had a offers from:

Some kind of inquiry from Toronto seen with Dubas and Benning talking with Benning saying they're keeping the pick. Return is a unknown.

Minnesota offering 63 and 86 for pick #37 which we used on Woo and would have done it if Woo was taken.

St. Louis called last minute to see if 37 was available and was turned away since Woo was available.

LA called offering their 4th(113) and 5th(144) for 68 and they decided they'd rather have Madden. Checked in if they'd do their 3rd(82) and 5th(144). LA declined

And then the offer of swapping 6ths with Washington to acquire their 2019 6th which went through.

The best part of that video is that Benning and Weisbrod seem to defer to Brackett for a lot of the decision making. Linden barely contributes which is probably a good thing.
 

F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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The quote from Weisbrod about wanting to go up if it's Quinn, the fist-pump when Detroit selected the third-overall ranked player, etc., suggests that Weisbrod's prior relationship with the Hughes family was out there and an issue to some extent actually gives me a bit of a worried feeling that maybe they weren't looking at it 100% objectively. The fact that they had Hughes ranked ahead of Zadina, when pretty much no one else did, also makes me wonder. I mean no question he is a huge talent, but it's just little stuff like that from this group that puts me a little less at ease.

The question posed was Zadina or Hughes and Brackett quickly said Hughes. That suggests to me that the that's the order the Canucks have those two players ranked. This wasn't Weisbrod saying I want Hughes. As for doing a fist pump, well why not? The Canucks get the player they want and that also appeals to him on a personal level. As for having Zadina over Hughes. I don't know if anyone can say "pretty much no one else" had Hughes ahead of Zadina. I had Zadina ahead, but Zadina was clearly the faller in the draft. This wasn't some secret. Bob McKenzie said that multiple scouts have told him that Zadina would fall out of the top 5 prior to the draft. For whatever reason, NHL scouts didn't see Zadina as in the same league as the top 2 picks.

You have to wonder what value Benning even brings to this process, his supposed strength, when he basically just defers to everyone else the entire time. And I also agree that Brackett comes off looking maybe a little less enlightened than we had originally hoped, but he could also be playing to his audience a bit.

It seems to me that he is letting Brackett run the draft and pretty much delegated. For a former director of amateur scouting, you would think that's the way he wants things to be done. What I do expect is for him to be able to evaluate his scouting staff. He sees Brackett as a rising star in the scouting business and promoted him from a part time scout all the way to the Director of Amateur Scouting. To me that's what I expect a GM whose strength is drafting to do. Improve the scouting staff and drafting process and deliver better and more consistent results at the draft table.

There's a pretty consistent theme in Brackett's interviews is that Jim provides the general direction, does do some scouting, and is heavily involved in terms of being in the meetings (which is not a given for NHL GMs). I don't know where the Brackett comes off looking maybe a little less enlightened comes from. He's pretty emotionless but he seems prepared and know the draft list and where the separation is among players on his list.

This has been my point time and again. The only thing this administration has done a halfway decent job of is drafting. The thing is.....this really has nothing to do with Dim. This is the work of Bracket and perhaps to a lesser extend the Broad.

He promoted a guy he trusts to run the draft but he gets no credit for being a manager and delegating? I don't know about you, but I do see his influence in the draft. In terms of skillset and even position, you can see the Canucks drafting the types of players Benning is looking to add to the team. He also can and does make calls like whether or not to draft a goalie. And if the videos suggesting anything, there seems to quite a bit of agreement between the guys most responsible for the draft.
 
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