2018 Management Discussion, Pt. II

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PuckMunchkin

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Dec 13, 2006
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The question posed was Zadina or Hughes and Brackett quickly said Hughes. That suggests to me that the that's the order the Canucks have those two players ranked. This wasn't Weisbrod saying I want Hughes. As for doing a fist pump, well why not? The Canucks get the player they want and that also appeals to him on a personal level. As for having Zadina over Hughes. I don't know if anyone can say "pretty much no one else" had Hughes ahead of Zadina. I had Zadina ahead, but Zadina was clearly the faller in the draft. This wasn't some secret. Bob McKenzie said that multiple scouts have told him that Zadina would fall out of the top 5 prior to the draft. For whatever reason, NHL scouts didn't see Zadina as in the same league as the top 2 picks.



It seems to me that he is letting Brackett run the draft and pretty much delegated. For a former director of amateur scouting, you would think that's the way he wants things to be done. What I do expect is for him to be able to evaluate his scouting staff. He sees Brackett as a rising star in the scouting business and promoted him from a part time scout all the way to the Director of Amateur Scouting. To me that's what I expect a GM whose strength is drafting to do. Improve the scouting staff and drafting process and deliver better and more consistent results at the draft table.

There's a pretty consistent theme in Brackett's interviews is that Jim provides the general direction, does do some scouting, and is heavily involved in terms of being in the meetings (which is not a given for NHL GMs). I don't know where the Brackett comes off looking maybe a little less enlightened comes from. He's pretty emotionless but he seems prepared and know the draft list and where the separation is among players on his list.



He promoted a guy he trusts to run the draft but he gets no credit for being a manager and delegating? I don't know about you, but I do see his influence in the draft. In terms of skillset and even position, you can see the Canucks drafting the types of players Benning is looking to add to the team. He also can and does make calls like whether or not to draft a goalie. And if the videos suggesting anything, there seems to quite a bit of agreement between the guys most responsible for the draft.

Just want to put it out there that I agree with every thing you say here.
 
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orcatown

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Benning, as suspected, seems totally indecisive. In reality, he seems reduced to a cheerleader and immediately seeks out Brackett's advise on most everything and then follows it..

The other point is that the Canucks seem to initiate nothing. Other teams are jockeying around and trying to make moves involving the Canucks, while the Canucks have seemingly little to no strategy and simply sit back and just let things unfold as they might. This view seems confirmed by the the management inaction in trying to use cap space or do anything that involves some creative or proactive thinking.

Benning seems very unsure of himself ( and probably rightfully so given his perceived lack of intelligence). This confirms the opinion that Benning is in over his head and is mostly reduced to hoping things somehow work out. I think his hope is that those around him will somehow bail him out. Linden seems in much the same position.

Another issue I have is the way management of this team simply takes time off. Seems like most of the management group has now simply gone on vacation. And last year Benning went off for a few weeks to see to family matters in the period prior to the trade deadline. In previous years, they started so late in the process of moving players at the deadline (such as with Hamhuis and Vrbata) that they ended with nothing or close to it.

Would also say that some here crediting Benning with assembling a fantastic group of prospects are way ahead of themselves (and even if that is true, given the video and other evidence, the credit for drafting prospects should probably go elsewhere)


As to some other aspects of this thread, I believe some posters have already and prematurely concluded that many of our prospects are sure fire NHL stars. But this must remain open to question. Of our prospects, I say the following

The only one of the high end prospects that has proven himself at the North American pro level is Demko. I think you can be fairly certain he turns out to be an NHL player. How good he will be, however, remains unclear.

I think it is reasonable to have some hope for Pettersson and Hughes but right now you can only have hope. Both are, by pro hockey standards, very physically weak. Whether they can overcome that is wide open to question.

Also is Dahlen any better then Baertschi??? At the same age, Baertschi appeared to be the better player. Baertschi was a tremendous Junior player and a much higher draft. Maybe Dahlen never even gets to Baertschi's level which even now is very marginal top 6 .

Goldobin remains a big question mark in many aspects of his game. Gaudette skating needs to improve. Joulevi still lingers far too close to the bust status and has certainly been a disappointment to date.

The point here is that some fans (I guess wanting some positives to cling to) are far to ready to credit the Canucks with having amassed this can't miss group of prospects. But there are still huge developments that must take place to make such predictions pan out. And beyond that, using such hopes to justify the Benning/Linden regime doesn't recognize enough that the team should have some decent prospects given their terrible standing of last several years. Indeed they should probably have better group of prospects than they do given their extremely poor results.

Based on what we have seen out of this management group to date, and not on some hopeful yet to be realized projections about younger players, I think you have to be critical.

Look at the check list:

Have they got value for existing assets at the trade deadline and elsewhere during the season. Outside of maybe the Hansen and Burrows deals (still iffy) - NO. could make a long list of assets that were frittered away for nothing.

Have they made good signings. NO - just look at Eriksson, Gagner, etc. Best might have been Vanek but he was let go for practically nothing. And with the signings this year there may well be some clunkers on the way.

Have they made good trades. NO. Can't think of one significant player that was brought in thru trade. Most of the trades have been little more than shuffling around the deck chairs on the Titanic. And in far too many cases they have given up draft choices or prospects which ultimately became the most important thing in the trade.

Have they overpaid for players. Absolutely YES. There are any number of examples and Benning seems committed to keeping this up.

Has the team improved in the standings. NO. And there is every reason to believe that they won't any time soon.

Have they selected good coaches. Hard to say as far Green goes but Willie was a complete disaster. Hounded the younger players and, along with the idiotic Lidster, drove Tryamkin back to Russia.

And as far as the drafting goes, the results have been a mixed bag. Right now the drafting of Virtanen and Joulevi appear outright misses given the draft position. Boeser was good pick and there is some hope for the future. Seems to me that's pretty thin reed to hang your case on for asserting the success of the present Canuck leadership group.

It is my opinion that this team will continue to drift along until Benning, Linden and the rest of the alumni that populated the various positions in team management are shown the door and replaced by hockey people who are dedicated and intelligent enough to improve the situation.
 

PuckMunchkin

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Dec 13, 2006
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I'll cherry pick few things from your post to respond to.

Benning, as suspected, seems totally indecisive. In reality, he seems reduced to a cheerleader and immediately seeks out Brackett's advise on most everything and then follows it..

The other point is that the Canucks seem to initiate nothing. Other teams are jockeying around and trying to make moves involving the Canucks, while the Canucks have seemingly little to no strategy and simply sit back and just let things unfold as they might. This view seems confirmed by the the management inaction in trying to use cap space or do anything that involves some creative or proactive thinking.

Benning seems very unsure of himself ( and probably rightfully so given his perceived lack of intelligence). This confirms the opinion that Benning is in over his head and is mostly reduced to hoping things somehow work out. I think his hope is that those around him will somehow bail him out. Linden seems in much the same position.

I find all this concerning to a point. Benning is a horrible public speaker, and doesn't seem much better in these situations. It is what it is. I would not read too much in to what they do and don't show on these type of promo videos.

What I think is safe to say here is that Brackett has good amount of control over the draft (and even somewhat trades during the draft, which I'm not sure I like).

Have they made good signings. NO - just look at Eriksson, Gagner, etc. Best might have been Vanek but he was let go for practically nothing. And with the signings this year there may well be some clunkers on the way.

Have they made good trades. NO. Can't think of one significant player that was brought in thru trade. Most of the trades have been little more than shuffling around the deck chairs on the Titanic. And in far too many cases they have given up draft choices or prospects which ultimately became the most important thing in the trade.

The Horvat deal is fantastic. Markströms deal is good. Rest of the contracts we currently have are overpaid or breaking even or ELCs.

The Vanek debacle had me frustrated for days. I could not believe they somehow dropped the ball on that...

The Beagle & Roussel deals are the worst, or among the worst deals made during this FA period.
 

Melvin

21/12/05
Sep 29, 2017
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Is it just me or were some of these failed trades a blessing in disguise?

37 for 63+86 seems like too much of a trade down for me. Trading out of the 2nd completely, while giving up a high 2nd??

68 for 113+144, again way too low. Trading out of the 3rd, moving down 45 spots to get a mid 5th? Value isn't there. They were right to ask for 82+144. IMO, that's more reasonable. For example, CHI received 74 for 87+142. Then Arizona flipped 87 for 114+145.

I actually don't mind the 6th round trade, but bleh on their target.

Agreed. Those were some terrible proposals. Jfc if they would have done that trade were woo taken.
 

megatron

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Dec 11, 2016
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He seems to me about on par with Weisbrod. I dont really get it.
Im not very high on Brackett myself. Theres nothing about him that makes him appear as an extraordinary talent, seems rather average. But I'd put him clearly above Wiesbrod. Wiesbrod is insidious.
 
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BROCK HUGHES

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Jun 3, 2006
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Going through the video:

Right out of the gate we can see they had Hughes over Zadina and you can notice Brackett didn't even hesitate in who he wanted.

They had a offers from:

Some kind of inquiry from Toronto seen with Dubas and Benning talking with Benning saying they're keeping the pick. Return is a unknown.

Minnesota offering 63 and 86 for pick #37 which we used on Woo and would have done it if Woo was taken.

St. Louis called last minute to see if 37 was available and was turned away since Woo was available.

LA called offering their 4th(113) and 5th(144) for 68 and they decided they'd rather have Madden. Checked in if they'd do their 3rd(82) and 5th(144). LA declined

And then the offer of swapping 6ths with Washington to acquire their 2019 6th which went through.
Thank god for Judd Brackett..who knows what these fools would have done without him.
 

Melvin

21/12/05
Sep 29, 2017
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Montreal, QC
Im not very high on Brackett myself. Theres nothing about him that makes him appear as an extraordinary talent, seems rather average. But I'd put him clearly above Wiesbrod. Wiesbrod is insidious.

Judd Brackett seems capable of doing an interview where he doesn't put his foot in his mouth. That's about it.

I guess people here need something to latch onto, and anyone who isn't a complete imbecile like Benning will do.
 

opendoor

Registered User
Dec 12, 2006
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Is it just me or were some of these failed trades a blessing in disguise?

37 for 63+86 seems like too much of a trade down for me. Trading out of the 2nd completely, while giving up a high 2nd??

68 for 113+144, again way too low. Trading out of the 3rd, moving down 45 spots to get a mid 5th? Value isn't there. They were right to ask for 82+144. IMO, that's more reasonable. For example, CHI received 74 for 87+142. Then Arizona flipped 87 for 114+145.

I actually don't mind the 6th round trade, but bleh on their target.

Yeah those offers are terrible. But really, if you're a GM and you don't call up Benning to try and rip him off you're not doing your job.
 

JT Milker

Registered User
Mar 24, 2018
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He seems to me about on par with Weisbrod. I dont really get it.

Ya, I think it’s hard to say whether he’s good or bad quite yet, but he’s certainly a step up from th sludge making up the rest of our management team, in that he is able to form complete sentences.
 

I in the Eye

Drop a ball it falls
Dec 14, 2002
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Judd Brackett seems capable of doing an interview where he doesn't put his foot in his mouth. That's about it.

I guess people here need something to latch onto, and anyone who isn't a complete imbecile like Benning will do.

Yeah, after this draft, I think there were red flags... then this video doesn't do much to squash the raised eyebrows and concerns...

Of course weisbrod had Hughes above zadina... being old family friends. On the whole, last draft doesn't seem as "smart" as the previous year's.

Perhaps Brackett is being consumed and engulfed by the losing culture?
 

Britton

Registered User
Nov 28, 2008
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Nothing wrong with Brackett. He's been crushing it with the American picks.

Well he's had 1 american pick that's worked out anyway. We'll see what Gaudette becomes but at his age it's make or break this year. I'm not sure I'd qualify that as crushing it.
 

kanuck87

Registered User
Oct 12, 2008
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Well he's had 1 american pick that's worked out anyway. We'll see what Gaudette becomes but at his age it's make or break this year. I'm not sure I'd qualify that as crushing it.

Demko should work out fine as well.
The worst pick out of the bunch so far is looking like either Lockwood or Rathbone, so all things considered, it's a pretty decent crop of American players that's been drafted the last 4 seasons.
 

TruGr1t

Proper Villain
Jun 26, 2003
23,123
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Pretty funny it sounds like we're trying to trade a defenseman to fit in Hughes (and possibly Juolevi), but it turns out pretty much every veteran member of our blue line has an "unmovable" contract.
 

Melvin

21/12/05
Sep 29, 2017
15,198
28,055
Montreal, QC
Yeah, after this draft, I think there were red flags... then this video doesn't do much to squash the raised eyebrows and concerns...

Of course weisbrod had Hughes above zadina... being old family friends. On the whole, last draft doesn't seem as "smart" as the previous year's.

Perhaps Brackett is being consumed and engulfed by the losing culture?

There were red flags in last year's draft video too. People shrugged them off as him trying to speak Benning's language to him.

I don't think he's a complete idiot but I don't really understand this weird sort of mythos surrounding him on this board.
 
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