GDT: 2020 HHOF Inductions June 24 - Alfredsson's 4th attempt. Start post #206

[Langdon Alger]

What is so great about St.Louis? His numbers aren’t that impressive for a hall of famer. Having a cup helps him. As does being small I guess. Playing in an era with not a ton of scoring is probably factored in as well.

I dunno. I’m not against him getting in, but he’s a guy, like Fleury who probably should have had to wait a while.

 

[BondraTime]

What is so great about St.Louis? His numbers aren’t that impressive for a hall of famer. Having a cup helps him. As does being small I guess. Playing in an era with not a ton of scoring is probably factored in as well.

I dunno. I’m not against him getting in, but he’s a guy, like Fleury who probably should have had to wait a while.

St. Louis
2 Art Ross
1 Hart
1 Lester
3 Lady Byng
1 time NHL +/- award
1 time 1st team allstar
4 time 2nd team allstar
1 Stanley Cup
1033 points

Fleury
1 time 2nd team allstar
1 time NHL +/- award
Stanley cup
1088 points

Alfredsson
1 Calder
1 time 2nd team allstar
1157 points

St. Louis has an unbelievable resume

 

[JD1]

St. Louis
2 Art Ross
1 Hart
1 Lester
3 Lady Byng
1 time NHL +/- award
1 time 1st team allstar
4 time 2nd team allstar
1 Stanley Cup
1033 points

Fleury
1 time 2nd team allstar
1 time NHL +/- award
Stanley cup
1088 points

Alfredsson
1 Calder
1 time 2nd team allstar
1157 points

St. Louis has an unbelievable resume

thanks BT for saving me the trouble

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Can't %$&*#@ believe there's Sens fans arguing against Alfie getting in the HoF.

 

[Stylizer1]

Can't %$&*#@ believe there's Sens fans arguing against Alfie getting in the HoF.

I think it is when. He doesn't get in over a St. Louis.

 

[Langdon Alger]

St. Louis
2 Art Ross
1 Hart
1 Lester
3 Lady Byng
1 time NHL +/- award
1 time 1st team allstar
4 time 2nd team allstar
1 Stanley Cup
1033 points

Fleury
1 time 2nd team allstar
1 time NHL +/- award
Stanley cup
1088 points

Alfredsson
1 Calder
1 time 2nd team allstar
1157 points

St. Louis has an unbelievable resume

Good points Bondra. I hadn’t considered all of that. Individual awards/achievements certainly play a big role.

It’s weird to me that a guy with less than 400 goals is in, but we have some other guys with 500 who aren’t. Pierre Turgeon has over 1300 points, and he’s not in. I know he played in the 80’s/early 90’s when there was lots of scoring, but that’s still a hall of fame career in my mind.

I’d love to see Roenick, Mogilny, Alfie, Tkachuk etc. all get in at some point. All great careers.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Pyatt getting in for sure next year

 

[Laphroaig]

I have no argument with the four players chosen this year although I wish the women had their own section and didn't count towards the four players inducted annually.

I believe that Alfie is a lock for next year along with Hayley Wickenheiser. In my opinion the most deserving player not currently in the HHOF is J.C. Tremblay. I'm starting to lose faith that he'll ever get in.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Zubov
Alfie
Roenick
Larmer
Turgeon
Mogilny
Tkachuk

At least one of those guys has got to make it next year.

Any other good candidates?

 

[JD1]

1st overall captain who led Toronto in scoring each season and was a point a game player. Playing in Toronto tipped the scales on first ballot over waiting first.

meh....Sundins best attributes were playing a long time and being healthy. The numbers are impressive in total but in context how many times did he finish top 10 in scoring? Hr hot in channelling his inner mike gartner

 

[Stylizer1]

meh....Sundins best attributes were playing a long time and being healthy. The numbers are impressive in total but in context how many times did he finish top 10 in scoring? Hr hot in channelling his inner mike gartner

Sundin was on some bad teams who always made the playoffs but would get bounced early on.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

It never ceases to amuse me to see how much stock people put in something as absolutely pointless as the hockey hall of fame.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Alfie is borderline, he's just our borderline, so folks are understandably indignant here. The idea that 4 people get in every year has seriously diluted the pool. I have never been an 'Alfie is God' fan so I'm not upset really.

In my heart if hearts I know that he shouldn't be there, and neither should so many players. 4 a year? Ridiculous. Entry should be based on merit alone with no necessary inductees each year.

 

[DDRhockey]

International play is also important and alfie was the leading scorer on the 2006 olympic win team

 

[trentmccleary]

Alfie is borderline, he's just our borderline, so folks are understandably indignant here. The idea that 4 people get in every year has seriously diluted the pool. I have never been an 'Alfie is God' fan so I'm not upset really.

In my heart if hearts I know that he shouldn't be there, and neither should so many players. 4 a year? Ridiculous. Entry should be based on merit alone with no necessary inductees each year.

He isn't that borderline. He's clearly going to be inducted, it's just a matter of when.

It's a shame that you don't recognize the player's ability considering how long its been since we've had one even close to being able to do everything the way that he could. It will probably be a long time before we get another.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

To me, Alfredsson and Sundin are equal.

 

[edguy]

Zubov
Alfie
Roenick
Larmer
Turgeon
Mogilny
Tkachuk

At least one of those guys has got to make it next year.

Any other good candidates?

As far as I can tell the only serious first ballot guys are Lecavalier and Brad Richards, neither of which to me are first ballot HOFers..

 

[Stylizer1]

To me, Alfredsson and Sundin are equal.

Leadership wise they were. Skill wise Sundin was better.

 

[trentmccleary]

Leadership wise they were. Skill wise Sundin was better.

No, he wasn't. The major difference between their careers was durability.

 

[Stylizer1]

No, he wasn't. The major difference between their careers was durability.

Sundin was clearly the best on his team from day 1. Alfredsson wasn't better than Yashin or Hossa. IMO it took Spezza and Heatley to put Alfredsson into that next tier.

I think Alfie is a similar player to Rod Brind'Amour. Long career with some injuries. Only difference is no body is talking about putting Brind'Amour in the HOF. He won the Selke trophy twice and captained his team to a Stanley cup. I'm sure in the Carolina media they are talking about how he should get in but no where else is that discussion taking place. That's what I think is the case for Alfredsson. we know how great he was and his importance but the hockey world sees others more worthy of the nod before he is taken into account.

Based on stats i think Brind"amour should get in before Alfie because of the cup.

 

[Ice-Tray]

He isn't that borderline. He's clearly going to be inducted, it's just a matter of when.

It's a shame that you don't recognize the player's ability considering how long its been since we've had one even close to being able to do everything the way that he could. It will probably be a long time before we get another.

Now now, he will get in, and I appreciate him as a player. I'm just not really a fan of forcing players into the Hall every year, and I think the threshold to be considered a HoF player is a bit low.

I'd be ok with team HoF's and a league How maybe. Anyways, it is what it is, and given the current criteria, he should get in.

 

[topshelf15]

Popularity contest nothing more...Sundin in on first ballot ...why??Because he was a leaf....Kinda like how Madonna is in the rock and roll HOF ...Yet a pioneer like Rob Halford and Judas Priest arent...

 

[trentmccleary]

Sundin was clearly the best on his team from day 1. Alfredsson wasn't better than Yashin or Hossa. IMO it took Spezza and Heatley to put Alfredsson into that next tier.

I think Alfie is a similar player to Rod Brind'Amour. Long career with some injuries. Only difference is no body is talking about putting Brind'Amour in the HOF. He won the Selke trophy twice and captained his team to a Stanley cup. I'm sure in the Carolina media they are talking about how he should get in but no where else is that discussion taking place. That's what I think is the case for Alfredsson. we know how great he was and his importance but the hockey world sees others more worthy of the nod before he is taken into account.

Based on stats i think Brind"amour should get in before Alfie because of the cup.

PPG Ranks (best 12, min. 27 gp)
DA = 3,4,10,15,15,16,16,23,25,29,34,39
MS = 10,13,13,13,17,18,20,20,24,24,26,29
RB = 23,24,24,24,32,46,50,50,59,59,62,81

 

[Stylizer1]

PPG Ranks (best 12, min. 27 gp)
DA = 3,4,10,15,15,16,16,23,25,29,34,39
MS = 10,13,13,13,17,18,20,20,24,24,26,29
RB = 23,24,24,24,32,46,50,50,59,59,62,81

What am I looking at?

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

What am I looking at?

Each player's 12 best rankings in points per game with a minimum of 27 games played.
Alfredsson finished 3rd, 4th, 10th, 15th x2, 16th x2, 23rd, 25th, 29th, 34th and 39th in his ten best seasons.
St. Louis finished 10th, 13th x4, 17th, 18th, 20th x2, 24th x2, 26th and 29th.
Brind'amour finished 23rd, 24th x4, 32nd, 46th, 50th x2, 59th x2, 62nd, 81st.

In other words, it's a good way to compare players relative to others in their era. Brind'amour may have had leadership qualities and the team accolade of a Cup, but he was never a point-producer on the same level as Alfie or MSL.