2018 Free Agent and Trade Discussion Thread: The Dogs Days are over

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BertCorbeau

F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Jan 6, 2012
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That’s a horrible contract, way too much term and caphut for a guy who hasn’t even hit 40 points.

He’s 23 to, it’s not like he has a ton of growth as a player left as well. He’s close to being as good as he’s ever going to be

Clearly the Yotes are banking on a breakout season where he can crack 45-50 points, and stick that way as a solid two-way centre .. A solid #2, good #3 type.

Still a big gamble in term and I think it's not a good deal for Arizona. It could look really good in two years or really bad if he doesn't improve.

Then again looking at some other RFA deals this off-season it's not entirely out of left field... I guess... I don't know anymore
 

WTFMAN99

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Jun 17, 2009
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Besides the media and certain sections in the fan base losing their minds waiting and putting on the pressure is a great strategy from a team prospective

Not like he has a massive amount of cash he's sitting on lol.
 
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Kiwi

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Mar 5, 2016
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Not like he has a massive amount of cash he's sitting on lol.

His family might have but he's a competitive kid, I seriously doubt he's going to sit on his ass for years when he could be making 6M+ a year

And if he does I say best of luck young fella
 
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IBeL34f

Lilly-grin
Jun 3, 2010
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I'd agree. Meant add Ceci to Dermott and the rest.
Ceci's a weird situation. He's actually like an anti-Dermott - Where Dermott has remarkably impressive numbers in very limited usage, Ceci has absolutely dreadful numbers in some ridiculously difficult usage.

Hard to get a read on just what exactly Ceci could be if used properly. Ottawa has not been kind to him.
 

Liminality

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Oct 22, 2008
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That's one of the big RFA contracts I was looking forward to seeing. Wonder what the cap hit is.
 

kk87

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Feb 12, 2015
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Willy's a slightly better player, but he also isn't getting signed as a centre, so this is probably a good comparable. My money's on $6.5 x 6
 
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BlueForever75

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Oct 4, 2017
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Looking good to sign Nylander for around 6 million per. Larkin is a great comparable. If anything he is a center that holds more value then a winger. May be able to get him for less on a 5 year contract

Big win for the Dubas and Leafs
 

IBeL34f

Lilly-grin
Jun 3, 2010
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My biggest issue with this Larkin deal is that it's only over 5 years.

I like using the $6.1M as a comparable, but I'd like to get Willy locked in for 6/7/8 years rather than 5 - Hopefully the extra term won't cost too too much extra on the AAV, and that Larkin's actively playing center helps a little as well.
 

SeaOfBlue

The Passion That Unites Us All
Aug 1, 2013
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Seems like Detroit got a bad deal on Larkin there. Guess Larkin did not want to commit to his hometown team if they did not have much of a future. They should have been able to get that number on a 7 or 8 year deal, similar to what Nylander should be getting.

I still think 8 x 6.25 AAV is what Nylander should be getting. Detroit should have got more term out of Larkin in the first place, and there are a few things to also consider.

1) Larkin is the guy in Detroit, so he's going to get a better deal just off of that. Nylander, at best, is number 3 behind Matthews and Marner.
2) Larkin is getting valued as a full time center right now. With Tavares coming in, Nylander is nothing more than a part time center from now on. That is something going in Larkin's favour.
3) Similar to number 1), Larkin had very little in terms of offensive support. Larkin was the top scorer and did not have much in terms of high end talent to help him. Zetterberg and Mantha are pretty much it last year, but both would be in the JvR/Marleau category, which would put them behind Matthews, Marner, Kadri and Nylander (as well as Tavares, but he was not here ast year) in terms of what the Leafs had. Not only does the lack of offensive support not help, but teams would stack up against Larkin. Teams would stack up against the Matthews/Nylander line too, but it's a lot tougher given the Leafs' offensive depth.
4) Larkin put up better production last year. He had similar PP time as well.

The main counterpoints are that Nylander has had two very good seasons now (although once again, both playing with a lot more talent than Larkin got) and that he was able to put up similar production in a lot less ES playing time. I am not going to comment on defensive abilities because I doubt either really have a major leg up on the other in that area besides maybe the position they play. It seems like both are solid but unspectacular in their own zone.
 

Rielly4

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Dec 12, 2012
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Honestly im hoping all 3 of our kids get signed for 8 years.

Nylander 6.3 x 8

Marner 7 x 8 *depends on his year i guess...this deal will probably happen next summer.

Matthews 10.5 x 8 * do it this summer
 

Buds17

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Nov 29, 2015
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My biggest issue with this Larkin deal is that it's only over 5 years.

I like using the $6.1M as a comparable, but I'd like to get Willy locked in for 6/7/8 years rather than 5 - Hopefully the extra term won't cost too too much extra on the AAV, and that Larkin's actively playing center helps a little as well.

Good post. Believe the contract takes Larkin to UFA. Five years would be the same for Nylander IIRC. I'd hope for more years as well.
 

BlueForever75

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Oct 4, 2017
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Larkin is the guy in Detroit, Nylander isn't in Toronto
Larkin plays center and an effective 200 foot game, Nylander does not
Larkin out performed Nylander last season

Within Nylander behind Matthews, Tavares and Marner in the pecking order....I don't believe he has a leg to stand on in negotiations after the Larkin deal was signed. At first I thought he would sign something comparable to Pasternak in Boston. But the more I look at this and how things are unfolding, he will be lucky to sign a contract for more then a 6.25 average salary!!! I see no reason for the Leafs to do so.
 

IBeL34f

Lilly-grin
Jun 3, 2010
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Larkin is the guy in Detroit, Nylander isn't in Toronto
Larkin plays center and an effective 200 foot game, Nylander does not
Larkin out performed Nylander last season

Within Nylander behind Matthews, Tavares and Marner in the pecking order....I don't believe he has a leg to stand on in negotiations after the Larkin deal was signed. At first I thought he would sign something comparable to Pasternak in Boston. But the more I look at this and how things are unfolding, he will be lucky to sign a contract for more then a 6.25 average salary!!! I see no reason for the Leafs to do so.
All depends on the term - If he's signing for 8 years (giving up 3 UFA years in the process) then he's going to command an understandably higher price than if he signed for 5 years (taking up only his remaining RFA years).

I'd comfortably do 7/7/11 for Nylander, Marner, and Matthews, respectively, if those price tags all came with 8-year terms, and then laugh my way to a decade-long dynasty. But shorter term means less pay, and I won't be surprised at all if we see lower numbers, one way or another, for any or all of these guys. I'm a believer in Dubas' and his capologists' abilities to get these guys to buy into a contract structure here that will allow us to continue building forward, rather than hand-cuffing what could be one of the greatest Leafs teams of all time so early on in this process. If we can get Willy locked up long-term for $6-6.25M per year, that's a pretty good start in my mind.

Good post. Believe the contract takes Larkin to UFA. Five years would be the same for Nylander IIRC. I'd hope for more years as well.
Larkin's actually giving up a UFA year here, I believe - Nylander's UFA status slid one year with how few games he played in his first "season", but Larkin's played 3 full seasons now, and should technically reach UFA status after only 4 more years of professional service, if I'm not mistaken.
 
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Canada4Gold

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Dec 22, 2010
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Again like most other comparables Larkin only had 4 RFA years left while Willy has 5. If Willy were the exact same player then add a 5.5 million dollar RFA year on the front for Willy and that's 6x6. Tack on 1 or 2 UFA years at 8 million each and you're looking at 7x6.28, or 8x6.5.

Willy's slightly more proven, so maybe tack a touch more on those. But that's what we're looking at.
 

WTFMAN99

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
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You are buying 2 more UFA years than the Larkin contact which is a reasonable comparable

I think 6.5M × 7 is probably pretty fair for both sides

Did Detroit have to over pay because they're a bad team? Or did they just overpay in general? Or was Ehlers an underpayment?

Ehlers 1st 3 years are definitely more impressive then Larkins.

I think it's a combination of both which is why I went for the middle ground. 6.3M between Ehlers and Larkin's AAV. We're a competitive team too.
 
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Voodoo Child

Registered User
Jun 16, 2009
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I don't think they're all going to get eight year deals.

Nylander: 6 years, 6.25 per year. I think he's proven a better player than Larkin to this point in their respective careers.

Marner: either 6 at 7.1, 7 at 7.25 or 8 at 7.75.

Matthews: is the only one getting max term, he gets Tavares money, 8 at 11.
 

Nylanderthal

Registered User
Jun 9, 2010
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I don't think they're all going to get eight year deals.

Nylander: 6 years, 6.25 per year. I think he's proven a better player than Larkin to this point in their respective careers.

Marner: either 6 at 7.1, 7 at 7.25 or 8 at 7.75.

Matthews: is the only one getting max term, he gets Tavares money, 8 at 11.
If you go 7 years on Marner and Nylander and 8 with Matthews you stagger all three of their next contracts and have Nylander expire the same time as Tavares, so whatever raise Willy will need then can be made up by what you’re not gonna be paying Tavares next time
 
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Kiwi

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Mar 5, 2016
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Did Detroit have to over pay because they're a bad team? Or did they just overpay in general? Or was Ehlers an underpayment?

Ehlers 1st 3 years are definitely more impressive then Larkins.

I think it's a combination of both which is why I went for the middle ground. 6.3M between Ehlers and Larkin's AAV. We're a competitive team too.

Those two extra UFA years we're getting with a 7 year Nylander (insted of Larkin's 5) contract would bump the price by a decent amount

Ehlers signed before the cap took a sizable jump so his 6M is pretty unrealistic at this point unless he's willing to take a very team friendly contract

We've got some power in this negotiation but I doubt 6.3M is happening without some serious pressure or less years (like Larkin's 5) which could bite us in the ass in 5 years time when we're in a much worse bargaining position
 
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