2018 Free Agent and Trade Discussion Thread: The Dogs Days are over

[Havoc]

Taking as long as it is, is proof enough. Leafs having the cap space they do, a player that is comparable to other similar signings in the league point to one of 3 things:

1) Nylander thinks he deserves more then Ehlers, Larkin and Pasternak

2) Leafs think he deserves less then those players.

3) Term Leafs want, Term Nylander wants

Its one of the 3. With comparables it should be very easy. Sorry theres is a contract standoff between the 2 sides which means trouble is brewing. We are approaching the middle of August, with everything known the deal should be done by now.

lol Pastrnak signed in mid September. Ehlers signed beginning of October. Larkin literally signed a couple days ago. So if you're using these 3 to help your opinion, it's actually counter productive.

This Sherlock Holmes thing isn't working out for you.

 

[Zipper]

Would you guys be happy with Green(Retain 50% salary) & Kronwall?

Maybe if we package up a few picks & prospects?

1st round 2019
2nd round 2019
Nielsen
Carrick
Sandin? or another top D-Prospect

Marleau-Tavares-Marner
Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Nash-Kadri-Brown
Johnsson-Lindholm-Kapanen

Rielly-Green
Gardiner-Kronwall
Dermott-Zaitzev
Borgman-Hainsey

our last roster spot would be Holl/Leivo or Ennis/Brooks

 

[Duke16]

Would you guys be happy with Green & Kronwall?

Maybe if we package up a few picks & prospects?

1st round 2019
2nd round 2019
Nielsen
Carrick
Sandin? or another top D-Prospect

Marleau-Tavares-Marner
Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Leivo-Kadri-Brown
Johnsson-Lindholm-Kapanen

Rielly-Green
Gardiner-Kronwall
Dermott-Zaitzev
Borgman-Hainsey

our last roster spot would be Holl or Ennis/Brooks

Dude?!? This is... really


Really


Really


Bad

 

[Zipper]

Dude?!? This is... really


Really


Really


Bad

Babcock has coached both players and knows what they offer.

Why? we get our top-RHD and a solid 20-min back-up in Kronwall, if Hainsey goes down this year.
For two high 1st & 2nd round draft picks plus two prospects we wont see for 3-5years if they make our lineup...
and if Sandin makes our roster who do you trade?? Dermott, Gardiner, Borgman or Rielly.
We have alot more depth than Sandin on LD, honestly i would be willing to move these guys for an upgrade.

Our room to make a push with our current roster is 2-years, then we will see most guys get traded or sign somewhere else.
Also if they retain 50% on Green's contract we would have cap left to sign Nash! at around 3.5M

Green & Kronwall offer assets our current team lacks!
Solid RHD with an awsome shot, good hockey IQ can play top minutes(PP/PK).
Another Solid RHD, all around good player with good leadership & can defend
the young guys if anyone wants to play dirty, he's our guy!(PK)
Huge upgrade from Polak last year.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Green Except that Green isn't a top pairing defenseman, and if we're relying on Kronwall for 20 minutes per game the blue line is in trouble.

Both players are past their primes and not an improvement in the top 4

Also Green actually just re-signed less than a month and a half ago ... He's not being moved.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Green Except that Green isn't a top pairing defenseman, and if we're relying on Kronwall for 20 minutes per game the blue line is in trouble.

Both players are past their primes and not an improvement in the top 4

Also Green actually just re-signed less than a month and a half ago ... He's not being moved.

Pretty much. Kronwall actually has next to no value. He may even have negative value at this point. Although I doubt Detroit would be desperate enough to do that, since he's still is valuable in the room and they are not dying for cap space.

Green would have been an okay UFA signing if the Leafs traded Gardiner, but he's not worth trading for. Especially not for that much.

 

[Zipper]

If we compared rosters from last year it would look like:

JVR- Nash
Polak - Green
Bozak - Tavares
Moore - Lindholm
Martin - Leivo
Carrick - Kronwall
Komarov - Johnsson

With those upgrades i believe we win last years 1st round of the playoffs.

 

[Zipper]

Green Except that Green isn't a top pairing defenseman, and if we're relying on Kronwall for 20 minutes per game the blue line is in trouble.

Both players are past their primes and not an improvement in the top 4

Also Green actually just re-signed less than a month and a half ago ... He's not being moved.

Kronwall plays 20-mins every night, lol
If thats the case we should move Hainsey asap?
Green is a top pairing defender whether you like it or not! Name one RHD on our current roster with more talent than Mr.Green!

Mike is still playing high-level hockey vs top lines, playing top minutes on a crap team, and hes only 32....definitely not past his prime , he still has another 6-years left!

Our only other options for trading this year without giving up current roster players is Vancouver.
Would you rather:

Green - Kronwall

vs

Gudbranson - Tanev

I would go with they Detroit deal everyday of the week....unless your willing to take Dustin Byfuglien alone vs 2-players with around the same cap hit

 

[Obliviate]

I believe Nylander wants long term deal and Leafs are hesitant to give it. If he can't be signed somewhere close to Ehlers and Larkin I would try to get a top 2 dman for him. If Panarin wants out, CBJ may be interested in Nylander replacing his offense. One of Jones or Werenski would be my target but they may be non starters.

Worst case sign him to a Pastrnak deal and move him next summer if there are cap issues.

Why would they be hesitant? What's the rush? Training camp is over a month away. Contracts like this are complex likely with future cap modeling to understand the ramifications of multiple different scenarios.

 

[Obliviate]

Taking as long as it is, is proof enough.

hilarious.

 

[Zipper]

Pretty much. Kronwall actually has next to no value. He may even have negative value at this point. Although I doubt Detroit would be desperate enough to do that, since he's still is valuable in the room and they are not dying for cap space.

Green would have been an okay UFA signing if the Leafs traded Gardiner, but he's not worth trading for. Especially not for that much.

Kronwall definitely has value, why would you think different? he can still play on the same level if not higher than Hainsey.
Blocks more shots, greater hockey IQ, more valuable if not the same in the locker room, history with Babcock, also he can rack-up points
if he playing on a good team, look at his recent number when Detroit was half decent he's a 30-50 point defender with top notch defending.
Someone you can really rely on when the playoffs start.....I don't feel confident with Ron as our number-1 defensive D.

As for Green he's only signed for 2-years? If you get him with his salary retained by 50% your looking at 2,687,500-M cap hit per year.
I'm not sure if Detroit's able to retain two salary's, if possible we could get Kronwall's cap hit retained as well(2,375,000-M)

You think if both players salaries we're retained that's not a fair offer both ways? We could offer another D-prospect over Sandin, but who would you offer?

Green = 1st round 2019(21st-31st pick) + Sandin + Nielsen
Kronwall = 2nd round 2019(42nd-62nd pick) + Carrick

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Kronwall plays 20-mins every night, lol
If thats the case we should move Hainsey asap?
Green is a top pairing defender whether you like it or not! Name one RHD on our current roster with more talent than Mr.Green!

Mike is still playing high-level hockey vs top lines, playing top minutes on a crap team, and hes only 32....definitely not past his prime , he still has another 6-years left!

Our only other options for trading this year without giving up current roster players is Vancouver.
Would you rather:

Green - Kronwall

vs

Gudbranson - Tanev

I would go with they Detroit deal everyday of the week....unless your willing to take Dustin Byfuglien alone vs 2-players with around the same cap hit

Zaitsev. Easily.

Being the best RD on our roster does not make you a top pairing guy. Green at best is a decent 2nd pairing offensive defenseman who needs to be heavily sheltered. He may play against high level competition on Detroit's defense, but he's not exactly doing "well" at it and he's not someone who should be doing that on any playoff caliber team.

Also, the Leafs only need 1 defenseman at most (to move Hainsey down to the bottom pair and make Ozhiganov a 7th defenseman). Why we would get two is beyond me unless one goes the other way. Especially getting Kronwall, who is worse than Hainsey yet you put into the lineup over him, and Green who will suck because he's not going to get the offensive minutes that make him even remotely effective.

As for the rest, I would just stick with what the Leafs have rather than overpay for players who quite possibly could make our defense worse (or at the very least, not much better). Ozhiganov may not be proven, and may not take enough pressure off of Hainsey, but besides Byfuglien (who is probably not going anywhere) and Tanev (when he's healthy and effective), nobody on that list is going to do that either. At least Ozhiganov has a wild card factor and potential (size and plus physicality, a shot hard enough to be among the tops in the NHL, strong mobility and puck skills). Those guys just suck and will only get worse.

As time goes on, there is a greater chance the Leafs will just try on Ozhiganov and Carrick to start the season as the 6th/7th defensemen and will not do anything to improve the defense. Depending on how the season plays out, they may decide to add a rental later on.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Kronwall definitely has value, why would you think different? he can still play on the same level if not higher than Hainsey.
Blocks more shots, greater hockey IQ, more valuable if not the same in the locker room, history with Babcock, also he can rack-up points
if he playing on a good team, look at his recent number when Detroit was half decent he's a 30-50 point defender with top notch defending.
Someone you can really rely on when the playoffs start.....I don't feel confident with Ron as our number-1 defensive D.

As for Green he's only signed for 2-years? If you get him with his salary retained by 50% your looking at 2,687,500-M cap hit per year.
I'm not sure if Detroit's able to retain two salary's, if possible we could get Kronwall's cap hit retained as well(2,375,000-M)

You think if both players salaries we're retained that's not a fair offer both ways? We could offer another D-prospect over Sandin, but who would you offer?

Green = 1st round 2019(21st-31st pick) + Sandin + Nielsen
Kronwall = 2nd round 2019(42nd-62nd pick) + Carrick

That's terrible value for the Leafs. Carrick on his own is more valuable than Kronwall right now, and there's no way Green is getting 2 1st round picks and another decent prospect.

 

[Stephen]

Babcock has coached both players and knows what they offer.

Babcock has also coached Chris Chelios. Doesn't mean he's a quality player anymore. Kronwall is beyond finished.

 

[TML1967]

Guys I still want:
Nash - Duh. If he was willing to sign a 1 year deal and try and win a cup, id be a very happy camper. Showed last year he can really play a solid 2 way game if he wants, and could be an interesting option on the second PP unit in a JVR type role.
Vermette - Top 3-5 Faceoff guys in the league, pk, not someone id worry about giving limited minutes to. Could see Babs really loving him as a no nonsense vet.
or
Nick Shore - Decent Faceoffs, and solid advanced numbers last year. Has more scoring upside than Vermette, which could become really usefull if we are rolling a 4th line with Leivo/Ennis/Johnsson on the Left and Brown/Kapanen on the right. Better skater than Vermette and more of a long term option if he fits.
If Lindholm wins the 4C spot, moving Nick Shore down the the AHL could be really useful after loosing Ben Smith.


AHL - why the heck not try it - type guys
Two guys who become Free Agents on the 15th, Terrance Amorosa and Kelly Summers. D partners at Clarkson U. Summers is RHD, both are 6'1 and put up decent numbers, and still young (22 and 23 respectively). Can never have too many quality D men, and signing both to AHL deals will help as im afraid if we try and keep Rosen/Borgman in the AHL again one or both may go back to Sweden.

Poirier - 23 y.o. but I think could still have a ton of potential if he put it together. Had some issues outside the rink, but a guy like Clune could help him since he has had similar problems. Still has solid wheels and a good shot. Could be a really helpful guy in the AHL next year in a 2nd/3rd line role.

Ryan Sproul - 6'4 200+lbs, skates well and plays above average in his own zone. His stats and advanced stats from last year are NHL quality (+3.5 CFRel%, 5 points in 16 games with a horrendously unlucky PDO for his career). Seems to suffer from bone-dead-itis similar to Gardiner. Would like to see him get a deal and play in the AHL next year. See if we can keep working him towards playing smarter hockey. IMO can still develop into a solid 3rd pair guy.

Dream lineup (even in my dream we dont find a way to improve the D to start the year)

Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Marleau - Matthews - Nyalnder
Nash - Kadri - Brown
Johnsson - Shore/Vermette - Kapanen

Gardiner -Reilly
Dermott - Zaitsev
Hainsey - Carrick

If you put that lineup against last years I think its more balanced, scores more and plays a better defensive game. That combined with not playing Polak every night I think really pushes us into true contender status.

 

[4thline]

If we're getting vet dman from the wings Daley is the one we want. Mobile, eats hard minutes, been there, done that, and got the job done in the playoffs, low cap hit.

 

[WTFMAN99]

If we're getting vet dman from the wings Daley is the one we want. Mobile, eats hard minutes, been there, done that, and got the job done in the playoffs, low cap hit.

I'd do it for Hainsey but otherwise not an easy guy to fit in.

 

[BlueForever75]

hilarious.

What is hilarious about it? Funny that people in the know more then you or I are questioning the delay just the same. Just last night after I posted what I did, there were guests on the McCowan show on the fan590 that were echoing my sentiments. Speculating that maybe the numbers do not match up and that they are possibly looking at alternatives to bring in other pieces they need with Nylander going the other way!!!

I guess I'm not as stupid as some of you are making me out to be. But hey, like you said....hilarious!

 

[4thline]

I'd do it for Hainsey but otherwise not an easy guy to fit in.

He drops Hainsey, pending huge jump from Dermott he'd be our 3rd best defenseman and second only to Rielly for suitability in matchup usage.

Rielly-Daley
Gards-Zaits
Dermott-Hainsey
Carrick

Is a massive upgrade to how we started and finished last season

 

[BlueForever75]

He drops Hainsey, pending huge jump from Dermott he'd be our 3rd best defenseman and second only to Rielly for suitability in matchup usage.

Rielly-Daley
Gards-Zaits
Dermott-Hainsey
Carrick

Is a massive upgrade to how we started and finished last season

Or we just trade Nylander for an upgrade on D that is better then Daley! And more long term that fits with core moving forward.

 

[Menzinger]

Or we just trade Nylander for an upgrade on D that is better then Daley! And more long term that fits with core moving forward.

The problem with this idea is that the type of D man that you’d trade Nylander for (young guy with top pairing upside) is almost never on the trade market.

 

[4thline]

Or we just trade Nylander for an upgrade on D that is better then Daley! And more long term that fits with core moving forward.

I'm less against the idea of trading Nylander than most, but this year a solid low cost updgrade that can munch minutes + Willy is better than no willy + slightly better defender with a pricier name

 

[Erndog]

What is hilarious about it? Funny that people in the know more then you or I are questioning the delay just the same. Just last night after I posted what I did, there were guests on the McCowan show on the fan590 that were echoing my sentiments. Speculating that maybe the numbers do not match up and that they are possibly looking at alternatives to bring in other pieces they need with Nylander going the other way!!!

I guess I'm not as stupid as some of you are making me out to be. But hey, like you said....hilarious!

So I just went on Cap Friendly and pulled up the list of signings from August 15th, 2017 to October 1st, 2017. Basically last year at this time until the start of the season.


- David Pastrnak signed Sept 14th (he was an RFA)
- Bo Horvat signed Sept 8th (he was an RFA)
- Sam Bennett signed Sept 6th (he was an RFA)
- Alex Wennberg signed Sept 1st (he was an RFA)
- Connor Brown signed Aug 26th (he was an RFA)
- Leon Draisaitl signed Aug 16th (he was an RFA)

and an absolute slew of others.

Take a breath dude. It'll get done.

 

[ULF_55]

That's terrible value for the Leafs. Carrick on his own is more valuable than Kronwall right now, and there's no way Green is getting 2 1st round picks and another decent prospect.

That might work Carrick for Kronwall straight up.

Babcock doesn't use Carrick, so maybe he'd use Kronwall as the Polak replacement.

Still need a true #1 defender, but unless Liljegren amazes, I don't see one arriving anytime soon.

 

[IBeL34f]

What is hilarious about it? Funny that people in the know more then you or I are questioning the delay just the same. Just last night after I posted what I did, there were guests on the McCowan show on the fan590 that were echoing my sentiments. Speculating that maybe the numbers do not match up and that they are possibly looking at alternatives to bring in other pieces they need with Nylander going the other way!!!

I guess I'm not as stupid as some of you are making me out to be. But hey, like you said....hilarious!

Who are these people, and why do you think they know anymore more about this current situation than any of us do?

I can't believe I'm a month and a half away from watching arguably the greatest Leafs roster I've ever been alive to witness, and we've got the doom-and-gloom brigade out in full force this summer, made worse by the fact that none of these pessimists have any interest in actually listening to any kind of reason or logic (whether it comes from other posters around here, or from the GM and players themselves). Absolutely brutal.