Prospect Info: 2018-2019 Senators prospect watch

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FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
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Bobby Ryan is a finesse player and they certainly don't like him more. Hoffman too was a finesse player and Sens HF reports on him didn't make the unanimity. There's just no perfect player, the closer we have to that is Mark Stone and even then his skating is not above average. Like you said, Tkachuk already has 2 strikes against him, with the usual posters.

To understand what Brady should become, you just have to take a look at his brother Matthew (or even his dad for those who followed the NHL for a logn time). He is just 20 y/o and has a 0.67 PPG in his first 2 seasons...That's Hoffman career PPG. But it's not only his offense, his defensive game is already excellent, his possession numbers are among the best and he certainly disturbs his opponents. He is a pain in the ass to play against. He's like a modern Claude Lemieux

IMO, Brady will be a bit bigger, a bit faster and a bit more skilled. I'm not excited about Tkachuk for potential highlight plays, I'm excited for him to be the kind of player that will make your team harder to play against, and that will help you win.

A Tkachuk-Brown-White line could be very hard to play against in a few years. Brown will provide the highlights/finesse plays while Tkachuk will do everything else, and White will transcend the line with his IQ and hockey sense. They will both also occasionally provide super skilled plays.

Dzingel-Duchene-Stone
Tkachuk-Brown-White
Formenton-Chlapik-Batherson

That top-9 could be really really good.



I have read that for so long (10+ years) from the same kind of posters and yet... worst finishes have been last year (2nd last) and in 2011 (5th last). Made the playoffs 6 times in the last 11 years and even won 3 rounds. Sure it's not fantastic but it's still better than many teams. So I am still waiting for the "bottom feeding" that those people have promised me.

That being said, I'm pretty sure MOST NHL teams had Tkachuk 3rd or 4th on their list. Looks like scouting sources thought the same :
  • NHL Central Scouting: 2nd (among NA Skaters)
  • Future Considerations: 3rd
  • McKeen’s Hockey: 5th
  • Hockeyprospect.com: 5th
  • ISS Hockey: 4th
  • Bob McKenzie: 4th
  • Craig Button: 2nd
  • Jeff Marek: 4th
Haha, the 2nd worst record in the league wasn't bottom feeding enough for you? You're seeing the results of years of having the worst AHL club in the game. It all filters up. The Sens have neglected their system for years now. This isn't getting any better over night. The team is going to be just as bad, if not worse next year because we've not equipped guys like Chlapik, White and Jaros with the tools they need to step in and contribute. They'll all have to come play earlier than they should and suffer in development for it.

You're in denial and imo don't have a very good grasp on most of these prospects you're talking about. It reads like you've barely seen any of them play, you re just going off scouting reports from even less informed posters and pundits than yourself.

At least Lee and Kleinendorst are out of the picture. They've been pure cancer to our farm. Hopefully Mann breathes new life into it. Now to find someone to actually properly manage it.
 

Burrowsaurus

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Mar 20, 2013
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Haha, the 2nd worst record in the league wasn't bottom feeding enough for you? You're seeing the results of years of having the worst AHL club in the game. It all filters up. The Sens have neglected their system for years now. This isn't getting any better over night. The team is going to be just as bad, if not worse next year because we've not equipped guys like Chlapik, White and Jaros with the tools they need to step in and contribute. They'll all have to come play earlier than they should and suffer in development for it.

You're in denial and imo don't have a very good grasp on most of these prospects you're talking about. It reads like you've barely seen any of them play, you re just going off scouting reports from even less informed posters and pundits than yourself.

At least Lee and Kleinendorst are out of the picture. They've been pure cancer to our farm. Hopefully Mann breathes new life into it. Now to find someone to actually properly manage it.
Agreeed kinda. I don’t agree on how badly you think chlapik Jaros and white have been stunted though.
 
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FolignoQuantumLeap

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Agreeed kinda. I don’t agree on how badly you think chlapik Jaros and white have been stunted though.
I don't think that they're terribly stunted yet but I hate the environment we're forced to have them in. We're not doing them any favours and it can definitely hurt them in the long run like with Harpur, Lazar and others who started strong in the NHL too. We really need to have our prospects playing in meaningful games in the AHL again and have coaches in the NHL who will foster their talent not shun them away.
 
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Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
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Haha, the 2nd worst record in the league wasn't bottom feeding enough for you? You're seeing the results of years of having the worst AHL club in the game. It all filters up. The Sens have neglected their system for years now. This isn't getting any better over night. The team is going to be just as bad, if not worse next year because we've not equipped guys like Chlapik, White and Jaros with the tools they need to step in and contribute. They'll all have to come play earlier than they should and suffer in development for it.

At least Lee and Kleinendorst are out of the picture. They've been pure cancer to our farm. Hopefully Mann breathes new life into it. Now to find someone to actually properly manage it.

Well, I agree regarding the AHL. For several years now, many Sens prospects have been thrown to the wolves as they are surrounded by average AHL players. A few years ago, the Murrays brought a lot of good AHL talent to surround their prospects better but it hasn't been case for a while now, probably since Tim Murray is not in charge of the AHL anymore. We could possibly blame Melnyk for that as he didn't replace Murray adequately but instead went for the cheap hire in Randy Lee. And also I agree on KK and Lee, I didn't have much faith in them.

As for the "bottom feeding" comment, read what you said YOURSELF again lol. You said "years of bottom feeding" so clearly you were not talking about just one season... Unless you were talking about strictly the AHL? In that case, it really wasn't clear. That being said, as I was saying, I am still waiting for the NHL Sens bottom feeding yearS that the same kind of posters as you have promised me in the past. Although, I must admit, with the Melnyk/Dorion duo, it's hard to have much faith right now so it could finally happen.

You're in denial and imo don't have a very good grasp on most of these prospects you're talking about. It reads like you've barely seen any of them play, you re just going off scouting reports from even less informed posters and pundits than yourself.

Funny reading that from you as I think you're one of the the most biased posters around here, totally blinded by his hate for the organization, aka in denial to use your terms. But to each their own

Of course, I'm not paid for this and I don't make any $ out of it so there's just a certain amount of time that I am ready to invest. I read everything possible about those guys (you know, instead of reading your repetitive moaning), I watch as much as I can from what is available on TV and internet but yeah I don't travel to watch them live. I'll go if they play at the Bell Center, Place Laval, Boisbriand (or anywhere in Quebec that is not too far) but that's about it. I don't need to be a professional scout (and I don't think any of us are) to know the potential of these prospects. I have been wrong many times before (ex : Petersson, Hoffman) but I have also been right plenty of times. For example, I knew Duncan Keith was going to be a top D-man even if his numbers were very "pedestrian" in the AHL and in his first NHL season. A Habs fan once told me who the heck is Keith Yandle and I have praised him, knowing he was going to be good. Erik Karlsson, I have made thousand and thousand of dollars buying all his rookie cards from Ebay and then selling them when it was the time. I did that with many other NHL prospects too.

I am very far from an expert or a pro scout but I have a certain (amateur) eye for talent and a very good understanding of the game (followed the NHL for decades, played a lot of hockey games myself, and as a goalie I analyze the game a lot). That doesn't make me the most informed poster here, but yes I have a good/decent grasp on what these guys are or can be.

What about you? Do you watch every game of every prospect? Because that's what it sounds like :laugh:
 
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Burrowsaurus

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Mar 20, 2013
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I don't think that they're terribly stunted yet but I hate the environment we're forced to have them in. We're not doing them any favours and it can definitely hurt them in the long run like with Harpur, Lazar and others who started strong in the NHL too. We really need to have our prospects playing in meaningful games in the AHL again and have coaches in the NHL who will foster their talent not shun them away.
I honestly believe Boucher will be singing a different tune this year. They will be playing meaningful nhl games. Which I think for a good prospect is just as good as meaningful ahl ganes
 

FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
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I am very far from an expert or a pro scout but I have a certain (amateur) eye for talent and a very good understanding of the game (followed the NHL for decades, played a lot of hockey games myself, and as a goalie I analyze the game a lot). That doesn't make me the most informed poster here, but yes I have a good/decent grasp on what these guys are or can be.

What about you? Do you watch every game of every prospect? Because that's what it sounds like :laugh:

Weren't you lecturing me and others at the start of the year how Burrows, Oduya and Smith were good NHLers? I think you're probably not being honest about your talent evaluation skills.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
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Weren't you lecturing me and others at the start of the year how Burrows, Oduya and Smith were good NHLers? I think you're probably not being honest about your talent evaluation skills.

First, in my books, NO NHL player is crap, garbage, dumb or whatever you and your kind spend your time name calling them. To me, only frustrated teenagers in their parent's basement would have that kind of language describing a NHL player. I know, haters gonna hate me even more but I seriously couldn't care less. I have played against Burrows, I have seen Georges Laraque in retirement skate circles against pretty good amateur hockey players, and played against/with many players who played in the NCAA/BCHL/QMJHL, etc. To reach the NHL you need to be damn good at hockey.

Now, there's a pretty big difference between "good" and "not garbage". The problem I have with some posters is they are going far with the hyperbole and are disrespecting those players. So I was not arguing about them being "good" but rather not "crap/garbage/etc"

1) Zack Smith : he is the kind of player that will struggle on a struggling team. He's a pretty adequate 3rd line forward (or could be a very good 4th line forward). He had some pretty decent seasons (garbage players don't score 25 goals in the NHL). He usually has a production pace between 0.30 and 0.45 PPG. His CF% is also usually positive (over 50%), he's usually very good on face-offs and on the penalty kill while being strong on the puck. His defensive stats are also quite decent (outside of last year where his xGA/60 was far over his usual rates). He had a very underwhelming season last year but it was just a reflection of the team he was playing for. When the team had better seasons, strangely Smith also had better seasons. In 2014-15, he had a really poor year but he dealt with injuries and played only 37 Games. Since we are in a massive youth movement and Smith is over 30 y/o now, I have no problem moving him and save salary by doing so but I just have no idea where you got that irrational hate for Zack Smith.

2) Johnny Oduya : I dunno if you follow the SC playoffs but Oduya was a key player for the Hawks when they won their last Cup in 2015, which is just 2 years before him signing in Ottawa. He was still a fine player in 2016-17 but was already 34 y/o so yeah you could expect him to start slowing down. He had injuries in 2016-17 which affected one of his best tools (skating) but sometimes, players rebound after an injury-plagued season. Problem with Oduya in Ottawa was his usage. He should have been played strictly on the 3rd pair with easier assignments but he was asked too much here, basically to replace Methot. He was clearly not put in a position to succeed playing often with EK (54.93% at EV) and on the first PK. Without Methot and a pretty sub-par Karlsson defensively, and with Phaneuf slowing down even more, the defense was in really bad shape last year. There was basically no chance that Oduya would succeed given what he was asked to do.

3) Alex Burrows : A player that had 2 strikes against him in Ottawa because of a "dislikeable" trade by Dorion. Gave a prospect none of us (or the vast majority) were ready to part with for Burrows, and also gave him an undesired 2 years extension. Despite that, he had a very good start with the team and excellent production (6 goals, 11 pts in 20 games is very good for a bottom-6 forward) down the stretch with some clutch goals and plays. Also, he had a decent showing in the playoffs but then he got injured. If he had been just a rental and we gave up let's say a 4th round pick to acquire him, then it would have even been perceived as a good move. But he was already 36 y/o and was losing one step away from becoming ineffective. Maybe his last injury was the last straw and I was hoping (because he still had 2 years at 2.5) that he could still play but with time passing, he was becoming more and more ineffective to the level of an overpaid depth forward.

Just because I have a different language, it doesn't mean that I am not being honest about my talent evaluation skills... :laugh:
 

aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
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The AHL team has not done well for the same reason the NHL team doesn't do well & that is the lack of funding from ownership. If you want good AHL vets to surround your young prospects they are available every yr but it costs considerably more money for the good ones & those teams that want the better players pay the premium for them, something this owner refuses to do. But I also have to say that although they do go out & get the best players they can afford, a number of people on here then complain that they are taking spots away from the prospects, case & point, the goalie situation last yr & this yr with the hiring of McKenna. You can't have it both ways apparently with this owner, they won't pay up for the better vets to surround their prospects & by signing lesser vets it takes the spot that a number on here feel should be kept open for the prospect. A lose/lose scenario.

Since this team has money problems they are not going to spend big money on AHL vets so the hope is that a few of these young prospects step up & become the players this organization needs them to be sooner rather than later. A new coach might help some but it doesn't solve the problems that better players would solve by winning more games & that's what it all comes down to for all fan bases … winning. This fan base like most just want their team(s) in both the AHL & NHL to win consistently yr after yr & play competitive hockey & have shown that they are not a happy lot when the teams are losing & they won't stick around for a rebuild. In a 31 team league there is only one winner every yr & the rest of the teams go back to the drawing board. We all think that we have the answers when their are 30 organizations every yr who did not & some end up paying for it with their jobs. So when professionals fail yr after yr it should tell us that it's not an easy job to do, to get your teams to win consistently every yr. Considering the internal budget, the lack of funding, the lack of good hockey personnel throughout the hockey operations & this owner, it's easy to see why this team & it's AHL affiliate struggle yr after yr & why good scouting & development programs are so vital to the success of both franchises. IMO at the moment anyway, is that the prospects are more exciting to keep an eye on then the parent NHL product which seems in disarray & that likely won't change until their is a compete house cleaning & ownership sells.
 

topshelf15

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May 5, 2009
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First thing we need from the coaching staff is committed practices,we cant be just throwing them out there and letting them manage themselves....A good practice routine is vital to the overall preformance and general locker room health of the team....Keep the kids busy,and they likely wont have time to act like kids
 
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FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
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First, in my books, NO NHL player is crap, garbage, dumb or whatever you and your kind spend your time name calling them. To me, only frustrated teenagers in their parent's basement would have that kind of language describing a NHL player. I know, haters gonna hate me even more but I seriously couldn't care less. I have played against Burrows, I have seen Georges Laraque in retirement skate circles against pretty good amateur hockey players, and played against/with many players who played in the NCAA/BCHL/QMJHL, etc. To reach the NHL you need to be damn good at hockey.

Now, there's a pretty big difference between "good" and "not garbage". The problem I have with some posters is they are going far with the hyperbole and are disrespecting those players. So I was not arguing about them being "good" but rather not "crap/garbage/etc"

1) Zack Smith : he is the kind of player that will struggle on a struggling team. He's a pretty adequate 3rd line forward (or could be a very good 4th line forward). He had some pretty decent seasons (garbage players don't score 25 goals in the NHL). He usually has a production pace between 0.30 and 0.45 PPG. His CF% is also usually positive (over 50%), he's usually very good on face-offs and on the penalty kill while being strong on the puck. His defensive stats are also quite decent (outside of last year where his xGA/60 was far over his usual rates). He had a very underwhelming season last year but it was just a reflection of the team he was playing for. When the team had better seasons, strangely Smith also had better seasons. In 2014-15, he had a really poor year but he dealt with injuries and played only 37 Games. Since we are in a massive youth movement and Smith is over 30 y/o now, I have no problem moving him and save salary by doing so but I just have no idea where you got that irrational hate for Zack Smith.

2) Johnny Oduya : I dunno if you follow the SC playoffs but Oduya was a key player for the Hawks when they won their last Cup in 2015, which is just 2 years before him signing in Ottawa. He was still a fine player in 2016-17 but was already 34 y/o so yeah you could expect him to start slowing down. He had injuries in 2016-17 which affected one of his best tools (skating) but sometimes, players rebound after an injury-plagued season. Problem with Oduya in Ottawa was his usage. He should have been played strictly on the 3rd pair with easier assignments but he was asked too much here, basically to replace Methot. He was clearly not put in a position to succeed playing often with EK (54.93% at EV) and on the first PK. Without Methot and a pretty sub-par Karlsson defensively, and with Phaneuf slowing down even more, the defense was in really bad shape last year. There was basically no chance that Oduya would succeed given what he was asked to do.

3) Alex Burrows : A player that had 2 strikes against him in Ottawa because of a "dislikeable" trade by Dorion. Gave a prospect none of us (or the vast majority) were ready to part with for Burrows, and also gave him an undesired 2 years extension. Despite that, he had a very good start with the team and excellent production (6 goals, 11 pts in 20 games is very good for a bottom-6 forward) down the stretch with some clutch goals and plays. Also, he had a decent showing in the playoffs but then he got injured. If he had been just a rental and we gave up let's say a 4th round pick to acquire him, then it would have even been perceived as a good move. But he was already 36 y/o and was losing one step away from becoming ineffective. Maybe his last injury was the last straw and I was hoping (because he still had 2 years at 2.5) that he could still play but with time passing, he was becoming more and more ineffective to the level of an overpaid depth forward.

Just because I have a different language, it doesn't mean that I am not being honest about my talent evaluation skills... :laugh:
So this is just a longwinded version of saying "yes". You watched training camp last year and thought those guys could contribute to a NHL lineup and are now claiming have skills in evaluating players.
 

HSF

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Sep 3, 2008
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lol people still blaming guys like Burrows, Smith and Oduya for our shit season. If karlsson, stone, duchene, hoffman, turris, ceci, Ryan, Brass aka the money makers on this team actually played to the level that we needed them we would have been a much better team. You can shit on the role players all you want but the top guys were either injured or just not good enough to lead this team on and off the ice


playing Chabot over Oduya wasn't going to save anything
 

Burrowsaurus

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Mar 20, 2013
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lol people still blaming guys like Burrows, Smith and Oduya for our **** season. If karlsson, stone, duchene, hoffman, turris, ceci, Ryan, Brass aka the money makers on this team actually played to the level that we needed them we would have been a much better team. You can **** on the role players all you want but the top guys were either injured or just not good enough to lead this team on and off the ice


playing Chabot over Oduya wasn't going to save anything
Those players weren’t THAT bad.

Pretty much all players our management brings in to help our stars are completed and utter garbage. Like some of the worst players available
 

Langdon Alger

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Apr 19, 2006
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lol people still blaming guys like Burrows, Smith and Oduya for our **** season. If karlsson, stone, duchene, hoffman, turris, ceci, Ryan, Brass aka the money makers on this team actually played to the level that we needed them we would have been a much better team. You can **** on the role players all you want but the top guys were either injured or just not good enough to lead this team on and off the ice


playing Chabot over Oduya wasn't going to save anything

Also would have been nice to get nhl caliber goaltending.
 
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Cosmix

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First thing we need from the coaching staff is committed practices,we cant be just throwing them out there and letting them manage themselves....A good practice routine is vital to the overall preformance and general locker room health of the team....Keep the kids busy,and they likely wont have time to act like kids

This is the first post that I have read that suggests the practices are not planned and not helpful for developing players or implementing systems and tactics. I don’t believe that is the case.

I may disagree with the coach’s systems and strategy but I would never accuse them of not having a system and strategy.

By the way, I will not criticize Boucher for “using rest as a weapon”, as I believe the 82 game schedule with many back-to-back games can grind down players and sap their energy. Using certain practice days to give players a rest is not a bad thing as it can help the players rejuvenate themselves and be fresher for the next game. For that reason, I think Dorion was an ass for criticizing Boucher for his comment.
 
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topshelf15

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May 5, 2009
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This is the first post that I have read that suggests the practices are not planned and not helpful for developing players or implementing systems and tactics. I don’t believe that is the case.

I may disagree with the coach’s systems and strategy but I would never accuse them of not having a system and strategy.

By the way, I will not criticize Boucher for “using rest as a weapon”, as I believe the 82 game schedule with many back-to-back games can grind down players and sap their energy. Using certain practice days to give players a rest is not a bad thing as it can help the players rejuvenate themselves and be fresher for the next game. For that reason, I think Dorion was an ass for criticizing Boucher for his comment.
The head coach needs to have the pulse of the room ,as at the end of the day its him that guides the team in its play on the ice .....We finished 2nd last,and often play is dedicated in how you practice....

Now I do agree on having rest intervals for the players as its a long season...But this coaching staff needs to do more to improve not only the play on the ice,but its general health in the room
 

Cosmix

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any chance Formenton cracks the lineup this upcoming season? ... a pretty special player

I do not expect a Formenton to make the team next season. He needs more time to develop physically and improve his hockey skills. I see another year in Junior followed by 1 year or possibly more in Belleville. I see him as similar to Dzingle with second line potential.
 
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Cosmix

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The head coach needs to have the pulse of the room ,as at the end of the day its him that guides the team in its play on the ice .....We finished 2nd last,and often play is dedicated in how you practice....

Now I do agree on having rest intervals for the players as its a long season...But this coaching staff needs to do more to improve not only the play on the ice,but its general health in the room

I agree that the coaching staff must improve its approach and strategy, particularly in the O-zone at ES and on the PP. Heck, improvement is also required in the D-zone to reduce shots against. There is a lot to improve upon. I don’t think Boucher uses his players in an optimal manner as he seems to be fixed in his ways.

However, this team needs more talent and needs to focus on drafting and younger player development. Boucher is not responsible for the roster; Dorion has that responsibility and he, and the previous GM have botched that. I don’t like the trades this team has made.
 
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DJB

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I honestly believe Boucher will be singing a different tune this year. They will be playing meaningful nhl games. Which I think for a good prospect is just as good as meaningful ahl ganes

It better be more than just a tune, a whole dang new genre of music .

If we play the same system as last year but just go younger we are destined to finish near the bottom again.

If Boucher changes the entire system to a modern day type up tempo chasing all over the ice along with an aggressive d zone coverage over the soft box coverage we will be better.

If not welcome to Colorado Mr Hughes
 

Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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It better be more than just a tune, a whole dang new genre of music .

If we play the same system as last year but just go younger we are destined to finish near the bottom again.

If Boucher changes the entire system to a modern day type up tempo chasing all over the ice along with an aggressive d zone coverage over the soft box coverage we will be better.

If not welcome to Colorado Mr Hughes

We gotta let go of that pick.. its gone.. I think its definitely a lottery pick .. and so be it.. If we had a chance for really great futures vs .. avoiding Colorado getting a top 10 pick, because we strove for the bubble this year only, I'd go for the futures.. I want to turn this piece of crap around. Dorion is not building a roster to win anything this year. If they can get everyone on the same page and it doesn't take too long, with some decent goal tending I optimistically think they finish in that 20-25 range. Boucher will add some changes to the attack but ... old habits die hard. The Dzone was horrendous last year and I can see it being worse this year.
 
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