Speculation: 2018-2019 Roster Discussion #2 - Even Worser!

[moosemeister]

For those on team trade Kuemper:
Speculation: - TOR may have to acquire another goalie

Possible destination.

Trade him for a 3rd. After Schmaltz injury I don’t care about this year any more.

 

[RemoAZ]

Other than maybe Keller, everybody should be on the table. This team needs goal scorers. Not set up guys, goal scorers. Of course we need high end talent too. OEL and Keller are the only ones that come close to that category.

 

[Dead Coyote]

If Goldobin is available we should absolutely see if we can grab him. High end offensive talent that can score individually is exactly what we need. Couldn't care less atm about his defensive issues.

 

[TheLegend]

Dauphin has been called up.

 

[hbk]

Dauphin has been called up.

This is his shot. I like Dauphin. I think he’s now eligible for waivers so let’s hope he sticks this go around.

 

[Jakey53]

This is his shot. I like Dauphin. I think he’s now eligible for waivers so let’s hope he sticks this go around.

I think it might be approaching a month since the gunslingers last trade, so maybe Chayka's finger is getting itchy.

 

[Llewzaher]

I would not be suprised ....

Is there anyone n the Oilers that we could use ? Now is a good time - their general manager is going out with a bang .

 

[rt]

Stepan has degraded into a 35 point player who can’t skate.

Raanta seems like he’s missed more games than he’s played.

The wheels have completely fallen off of Goligoski and he’s only halfway through his contract.

If I owned this team, Johm Chayka would be one mistake away from unemployment. Especially given his the head coach he hired can’t seem to make a single bit of progress with the team in the first two seasons. Add to this that Max Domi is a point-per-game top line center and I might just fire Chayka today.

What has he done to earn the right to gamble so big, lose so bad, and keep his job?

Item #1: Signed Alex Goligoski to big contract

Item #2: Traded 7th overall and DeAngelo for Stepan and Raanta

Item #3: Hired Tocchet and MacLean

Item#4: Traded Domi for Galchenyuk

Even the “smart” dumps he accepted aren’t paying off like we hoped. We got Crouse for Bolland dump but gave up the Serron Noel pick. That could end up a loss very easily.

We got Hinostroza for Hossa dump but we gave up Entwhistle. He’s looked good. That’s not nothing.

We got to move up for Chychrun for the Datsyuk dump but we gave up the Cholowski pick. His rookie season is as stronger or stronger than Chychrun’s was. Could be a wash.

He’s made some good moves, too.

Murphy for Hjalmarsson was a great trade. But Hjammer isn’t getting younger and is often injured and by the time this team is ready to even think about competing, he’ll be an older, pending UFA.

I feel like the mistakes he’s made are glaring blunders. The good moves he’s made are tinged with doubt, to a mitigating degree. He’s basically either bad or break even.

Chayka has been a retired tourist from Toledo and the NHL has been the Bellagio. He’s feeling pretty good about himself, but the house has taken him for all he’s worth. Things have felt good at the time, but at the end of the day, he’s lost his shirt.

 

[Jamieh]

Last year some of us were ridiculed for suggesting we weren't sure Raanta coukd be an NHL starter???

 

[rt]

Last year some of us were ridiculed for suggesting we weren't sure Raanta coukd be an NHL starter???

Last year was a lot of freak accidents. String together many, many coincidences and you no longer have coincidences. I think before now, that was a premature conclusion.

I could say Barrett Hayton was an awful pick and will surely bust. That might turn out to be true in five years, but it doesn’t make my prediction less premature.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

It is true that his "big trades" have not worked out...I'd dump Chayka. We are in desperate need for something good to happen to this franchise.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

It is true that his "big trades" have not worked out...I'd dump Chayka. We are in desperate need for something good to happen to this franchise.

 

[Jamieh]

Last year was a lot of freak accidents. String together many, many coincidences and you no longer have coincidences. I think before now, that was a premature conclusion.

I could say Barrett Hayton was an awful pick and will surely bust. That might turn out to be true in five years, but it doesn’t make my prediction less premature.

It wasn't a conclusion but it was questioning based on lack of history.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

sorry fellas, I only hit the "Post Reply" button once and got 4 posts exactly the same. Bug Alert!

 

[rt]

Chayka has gone all-in on middling assets and we’re now a youngish team that’s not all that young. We’re a soft, offensive team that lacks high-end talent. We’re left in a pretty hopeless position. It sure feels like this team was left in the wrong hands and was managed poorly to get us here.

 

[Jakey53]

Chayka has gone all-in on middling assets and we’re now a youngish team that’s not all that young. We’re a soft, offensive team that lacks high-end talent. We’re left in a pretty hopeless position. It sure feels like this team was left in the wrong hands and was managed poorly to get us here.

Yet, most posters here, including me, liked most of his moves at the time. It's easy to look back and criticize, quite the other to look at things in real time. We have Stepan, Richardson and Gogo for trade bait and maybe one or two more. We have to change the leadership on the team, and if we get a new owner I think there will be new leadership off the ice as well.

 

[RABBIT]

I would fire Chayka, Tocchet, and Maclean. Hire Dean Lombardi as GM and hope he picks a decent interim coach until we could ask permission to speak to Keefe and/or Nelson in the offseason.

There is simply no excuse missing the playoffs 7 years in a row.

 

[CNYCrunchfan1]

Stepan has degraded into a 35 point player who can’t skate.

Raanta seems like he’s missed more games than he’s played.

The wheels have completely fallen off of Goligoski and he’s only halfway through his contract.

If I owned this team, Johm Chayka would be one mistake away from unemployment. Especially given his the head coach he hired can’t seem to make a single bit of progress with the team in the first two seasons. Add to this that Max Domi is a point-per-game top line center and I might just fire Chayka today.

What has he done to earn the right to gamble so big, lose so bad, and keep his job?

Item #1: Signed Alex Goligoski to big contract

Item #2: Traded 7th overall and DeAngelo for Stepan and Raanta

Item #3: Hired Tocchet and MacLean

Item#4: Traded Domi for Galchenyuk

Even the “smart” dumps he accepted aren’t paying off like we hoped. We got Crouse for Bolland dump but gave up the Serron Noel pick. That could end up a loss very easily.

We got Hinostroza for Hossa dump but we gave up Entwhistle. He’s looked good. That’s not nothing.

We got to move up for Chychrun for the Datsyuk dump but we gave up the Cholowski pick. His rookie season is as stronger or stronger than Chychrun’s was. Could be a wash.

He’s made some good moves, too.

Murphy for Hjalmarsson was a great trade. But Hjammer isn’t getting younger and is often injured and by the time this team is ready to even think about competing, he’ll be an older, pending UFA.

I feel like the mistakes he’s made are glaring blunders. The good moves he’s made are tinged with doubt, to a mitigating degree. He’s basically either bad or break even.

Chayka has been a retired tourist from Toledo and the NHL has been the Bellagio. He’s feeling pretty good about himself, but the house has taken him for all he’s worth. Things have felt good at the time, but at the end of the day, he’s lost his shirt.

That's a lot of clear non-rose colored glasses thinking. I can't disagree with any of it. The only thing in Chaykas defense is he has no real ownership to fund him so has limited options much like before him. Having said that I cant stand Chayka. He should have been a long term assistant to a real hockey guy first.

Nothing will be resolved until we get a real owner with money who hates to lose who hires a real hockey guy as gm who hates to lose.

 

[rt]

Yet, most posters here, including me, liked most of his moves at the time. It's easy to look back and criticize, quite the other to look at things in real time. We have Stepan, Richardson and Gogo for trade bait and maybe one or two more. We have to change the leadership on the team, and if we get a new owner I think there will be new leadership off the ice as well.

You seem to have a tendency to tell people they have no right to criticize in the moment if they don’t like a move because they aren’t qualified. Then you also seem to be of the opinion that hindsight isn’t useful for criticism at a later date, because we didn’t see it coming. So which is it Jake?

 

[rt]

I would fire Chayka, Tocchet, and Maclean. Hire Dean Lombardi as GM and hope he picks a decent interim coach until we could ask permission to speak to Keefe and/or Nelson in the offseason.

There is simply no excuse missing the playoffs 7 years in a row.

Yes.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

I would fire Chayka, Tocchet, and Maclean. Hire Dean Lombardi as GM and hope he picks a decent interim coach until we could ask permission to speak to Keefe and/or Nelson in the offseason.

There is simply no excuse missing the playoffs 7 years in a row.

There is 'zero' excuse to miss the playoffs 7 yrs in a row and have only acquired the Talent we have now...what a travesty to still be mired near last place with little hope

 

[Imaravencawcaw]

Chayka has gone all-in on middling assets and we’re now a youngish team that’s not all that young. We’re a soft, offensive team that lacks high-end talent. We’re left in a pretty hopeless position. It sure feels like this team was left in the wrong hands and was managed poorly to get us here.

A lot of his machinations look sketchy in hindsight, but I still wonder how much of his wheeling and dealing has to do with influence from ownership to shorten the rebuild and push for the playoffs more quickly to mitigate the massive financial losses.

For instance, did Chayka really want to give up the 7th overall pick and a young D prospect or did he need to find a goaltender and 2C that could maybe possibly with some luck drag this team to the playoffs 2 years ahead of schedule?

 

[rt]

I believe the idea was to insulate the rebuild with solid veteran leadership so that the young assets didn’t get exposed, run over, and ruined. Stepan, Goligoski, Hjalmarsson, and Raanta were supposed to shield our youngsters and help them play meaningful NHL games as they developed.

It was a great theory. The execution failed. That’s the story of Chayka as a GM so far. Great ideas, has the balls to to go for it, but either misses the mark or comes up short. It’s why we fans like why he’s doing until the final results are in. It feels right but it ends up wrong.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I believe the idea was to insulate the rebuild with solid veteran leadership so that the young assets didn’t get exposed, run over, and ruined. Stepan, Goligoski, Hjalmarsson, and Raanta were supposed to shield our youngsters and help them play meaningful NHL games as they developed.

It was a great theory. The execution failed. That’s the story of Chayka as a GM so far. Great ideas, has the balls to to go for it, but either misses the mark or comes up short. It’s why we fans like why he’s doing until the final results are in. It feels right but it ends up wrong.

I question whether it has, or has not worked though. Had he not brought in the likes of those mentioned (Raanta aside - hardly present), we could easily be far less competitive than we are.
I'm most likely not comprehending what you are saying here, but w/o these guys we'd have a good chance of being often overrun. Prime example would be the loss of Demers - hasn't been positive imo and you can stat against that all you want (wins vs losses before and since etc.), but the difference w/o him is there to see imo.
It's very difficult to put together the right mix and having inexperience and the compounding lack of funds doesn't make it any easier. Folks have different ideas and you have proposed added grit aka a Lucic, or similar type deal and that may be effective and warranted, but we just played two decent periods against the Oilers, in which we were anything but overrun. Play engaged and as we should in the second and who knows.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

I'd give Chayka/Tocchet one more year. Only move I am certain needs to happen is Maclean needs to be fired. I've liked a lot of what Chayka has done, I think the amount of hate that Gogo gets vs the amount of love Yandle gets is insane here. They are literally the same player. Can't deny Gogo being in a bit of a rut right now, but every player gets in one every once in a while.
I mean, I don't consider us to be a pathetic team anymore. When Chayka and Tocc got here, we were beyond pathetic. Right now, we aren't a good team, but we're still working towards the rebuild. 7 years of no playoffs blows, but Chayka can't help that 4 years of that the two in charge had been old and decrepit and considered Kyle Chipchura to be a suitable first line center.

 

[tucknroll]

Stepan has degraded into a 35 point player (3.) who can’t skate.

Raanta seems like he’s missed more games than he’s played. (3.)

The wheels have completely fallen off of Goligoski and he’s only halfway through his contract. (2.)

If I owned this team, Johm Chayka would be one mistake away from unemployment. Especially given his the head coach he hired can’t seem to make a single bit of progress with the team in the first two seasons. Add to this that Max Domi is a point-per-game top line center and I might just fire Chayka today.

What has he done to earn the right to gamble so big, lose so bad, and keep his job?

Item #1: Signed Alex Goligoski to big contract (2.)

Item #2: Traded 7th overall and DeAngelo for Stepan and Raanta (3.)

Item #3: Hired Tocchet and MacLean (1.)

Item#4: Traded Domi for Galchenyuk (4.)

Even the “smart” dumps he accepted aren’t paying off like we hoped. We got Crouse for Bolland dump but gave up the Serron Noel pick(5). That could end up a loss very easily.

We got Hinostroza for Hossa dump but we gave up Entwhistle. He’s looked good. That’s not nothing.

We got to move up for Chychrun for the Datsyuk dump but we gave up the Cholowski pick. His rookie season is as stronger or stronger than Chychrun’s was (6.). Could be a wash.

He’s made some good moves, too.

Murphy for Hjalmarsson was a great trade. But Hjammer isn’t getting younger and is often injured and by the time this team is ready to even think about competing, he’ll be an older, pending UFA.

I feel like the mistakes he’s made are glaring blunders. The good moves he’s made are tinged with doubt, to a mitigating degree. He’s basically either bad or break even.

Chayka has been a retired tourist from Toledo and the NHL has been the Bellagio. He’s feeling pretty good about himself, but the house has taken him for all he’s worth. Things have felt good at the time, but at the end of the day, he’s lost his shirt.

Sorry if its hard to follow, tried numbering them in order that would make most the most sense.

1. This is Chayka's biggest mistake and to me the only thing that's preventing this team from taking the next step, Toccett is not a good coach, he tried bringing a Pitts style game to a team without Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang and he's shown no ability to adapt or adjust his style to the team in the games, blaming players for not getting the systems he's running is on him, no new coach should start with a team as bad as he did, these are pro players and can pick up on systems within a couple weeks and he was with the team before training camp. Good coaches run systems that benefit the players they have, not force players to play systems they don't fit in, thats not how you succeed. That said Maclean being on this team should be another thing that Toccett gets blamed for since coaches pick their assistants, so thats not Chayka's fault. Should have been Keefe from day one, truly believe he will be one of the next great coach's in the league. His career record of coaching is unbelievably good. I've heard nothing but great things about how smart he is and how good of a person/coach he is. I don't think this team can literally afford to fire Toccett who has i believe 2 years left on his contract though (i have no clue how he got so much term, i wonder if Barroway wanted him given his past ties to the Coyotes but i have no idea)

2. Goligoski's contract always looked bad, and i never liked it, but he was a UFA when they got him so paying a little extra is expected and no one could know he would regress so quickly. He was always known as a steady and consistent D. He's has not been good though, this contract is really the only player move i hold against Chayka, and compared to other GM's FA mistakes it's way more forgivable as he is still a 30+ point D and his contract will be expired before Seattle joins the NHL. But thats not me defending it, it's still a minus on Chayka

3. How is this being held against Chayka? it was 7th OV in a weak draft, this team didn't need another 19 year old either. Stepan may be looking slower but he's still a #2 center and is a smart player. Raanta's been a starting goalie and injuries can't be held against Chayka either, not like he went out with a bat and hurt Raanta himself. That trade was a steady #2 center + a starting goalie (2 things this team needed) for a weak 7thOV pick and Tony D who ideally is a guy you want to play 12 min a night and QB your PP

4. This trade is 30-40 games in and you declaring it a major loss? I would love to see what Gally can do with a decent coach personally. Domi was a player to love though and i really liked his game. That said i'm sure everyone knew he wouldn't maintain his hot start and he hasn't, his first 20 games he had 24 points, since then he's had 13 in his last 20 which is not much better than Gally by any means. I'm not saying Arizona won or lost this trade, just that it's to early to hold against Chayka as of now and its not as one sided as it seems.

5. That was Tippett's fault not Chayka's, Should have been a third round pick not a second. Which id give up for Crouse any day.

6. Chych's rookie year was when he was 18 not 20 (also playing for Mr. No Offense Tippett) and Chych is better as of now and hopefully the future, Arizona didn't lose anything by having Datsyuk's contract, if anything the argument on this trade should be that he gave up a 2nd rounder that turned into Hronek for Detroit. I still take that trade if i'm Arizona though, Chych looks like future captain material and is one of the only D on this team that can reliably move the puck forward

I think firing Chayka would be the biggest mistake, he's done a lot of good things especially considering he's been running this team with both hands tied behind his back due to the budget.

Personally think the priority list should be (Looking from the outside obviously):
1. Fire Toccett
2. Trade Panik, Connauton and Golo (if possible)
3. Gauge the market on OEL before that contract kicks in (i know people are scared of the message that sends, but realistically the players don't care much, they realize its part of the business and they are living the dream, you just have to make sure the teams better after the trade)
4. Get Garland and Bunting competing for a spot and give Capobianco some time in the NHL
5. Gauge the market for Stepan for the offseason.
6. If trading for Picks in the first three rounds, aim for 2020